nVidia HQ AF problems again

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Steelski

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: fierydemise
Keys the issue is simple, nVidia claimed that when HQ option was chosen all optimizations were turned off, but the article shows that isn't true.

And why do we care about this?

we care because it would be something to think about when buying an nvidia product. the constant lying about optimizations not affecting image quality...... now even lying about the implementation of optimisation. I personally dont own an Nvidia card at the moment, but i know this issue annoys me when i dont have AF on. it would certainly annoy me more if i was to have it on and it would not get rid of crap like this in the pictures.
I know there are a lot of people that wouldent know the difference between a AF scene and a none AF scene. If you dont find image quality an issue then you shouldent comment on any image quality threads. Infact i will make an effort to remember that you dont really care about these kinds of issues.
I was concerned about the ATI mip mapping issue (resolved) and the HL2 black watter edges(fixed) and you refered to.
The AA issue............. why the hell are you concerned... you have no valid statement to make even to that if you cant acknowledge this.
Keys, you have no leg to stand on with this issue, why are you trying to deffend Nvidia when there is evidence they are lying yet again about their optimization issues. why can they not really give a HQ mode when it is available?

You should also make an effort to remember that I don't care that your making an effort to remember. I brought up the AA issue because it was a reference to "optimizations".
What leg do I need to stand on exactly? You are turning this (*) into this (***************************************) and it is laughable and all attributed to a bug? Well, you guys go ahead and have your fun. "Ultra weird". I'll leave you to it.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker

Originally posted by: Matt2

Originally posted by: nib95

Originally posted by: crazydingo

Originally posted by: Matt2

Originally posted by: FalllenAngell

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
This is more than about shimmering with nVidia. The entire point of that article is that you STILL have shimmering in HQ AF in OpenGL because opts are not turned off. Once they are turned off manually, you get a performance penalty. This has nothing to do with ATi but its funny seeing the usual suspects trying to deflect the issue at hand.

Do you have a nVidia card that this seems bother you so much?

From the looks of that article, you can enable the high quality if you desire anyway?

He had a GTX I believe.

I find it funny that we went through a 1200 oage thread to get rid of Rollo, but now that he's gone, Joker has taken on the role of posting any negative article he can find about Nvidia. The same thing Rollo used to do with articles about ATI. And boy that sure did piss off the ATI fanbois.

I think you are reaching there a bit. Rollo used to create threads on driver release notes .. lol

This is something different, sneaky, not acknowledged.

You cant compare Rollo to Joker. Joker has posted a trhead thats useful to us as it provides facts. Rollo used to talk crap, with for example, suggestions that a 7800 GTX 512mb was a good investment as a reason to get one over an X1900 XTX.
Hows that for garbage?

Dont compare the users, there is no comparison to make.

Rollo posted articles with facts to back up his claims too. He was just straight forward about it.

Also, he said the 7800GTX 512 was a good investment to turn around and sell for a profit. Big difference.

We all know what Rollo did and don't care anymore because he's gone. He wasn't banned for his years of trolling, it's his AEG affiliation that got him rightly booted. Now back to the topic.

Actually, it was the other way around.

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Yes I have a 6800 Go Ultra. I also had a 7800 GTX that I sold last month after owning it since it's release. I think you're missing the point of the article - you can disable opts but with that comes a performance penalty.

so you are bitching because if you turn off performance optimizations, the performance drops? wtf?

i'm pretty sure i'm going ati in the next couple of weeks when i upgrade, but frankly i bought my 6800gt in 6/04, and having used it almost 2 full years now, can only say it was an excellent card which lasted me 2 generations (and will continue to be used in my second pc), and still plays every title out there with decent performance.

 

[FalllenAngell]

Originally posted by: Steelski

Originally posted by: FalllenAngell
Reminds me of a few years back my buddies were harassing me because the trilinear filtering on my ATI card of the time was supposed to be some sort of driver cheat ....and I couldn't disable it! <gasp>

("inclination to bugwellen" notwithstanding)

I used to harass a friend because he had a wireless network..... it was very unstable at the time and i kept saying that it would fry his brain.

LOL!

 

[Steelski]

Originally posted by: FalllenAngell

Originally posted by: Steelski

Originally posted by: FalllenAngell
Reminds me of a few years back my buddies were harassing me because the trilinear filtering on my ATI card of the time was supposed to be some sort of driver cheat ....and I couldn't disable it! <gasp>

("inclination to bugwellen" notwithstanding)

I used to harass a friend because he had a wireless network..... it was very unstable at the time and i kept saying that it would fry his brain.

LOL!

which cards were you refering to by the way, rage or radeon? geforce or tnt?

 

[BFG10K]

In general I've noticed both vendors shimmer a little in certain situations but it's certainly nothing to get worked up about. For the record I run with optimizations off on my 7800GT.

 

[Steelski]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM

Originally posted by: 5150Joker
Yes I have a 6800 Go Ultra. I also had a 7800 GTX that I sold last month after owning it since it's release. I think you're missing the point of the article - you can disable opts but with that comes a performance penalty.

so you are bitching because if you turn off performance optimizations, the performance drops? wtf?

i'm pretty sure i'm going ati in the next couple of weeks when i upgrade, but frankly i bought my 6800gt in 6/04, and having used it almost 2 full years now, can only say it was an excellent card which lasted me 2 generations (and will continue to be used in my second pc), and still plays every title out there with decent performance.

I think he was refering to the point that the Nvidia drivers HQ mode is not supposed to have image degrading optimizations on. noone is really trying to say that the cards are no good, but to point out an obvious fault in the optimization. the only time you would want something like that on in a HQ mode is if it does not degrade the quality so much, they could have easily allowed for a mode in between the HQ and one below to enable almost HQ mode i dont think anyone would have any dispute with Nvidia then.
Edited typo but noticed BFG post which is good to know that someone cares about better IQ than the one Nvidia offer.

 

[ExtremePVDman]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
I havent noticed any shimmering, but its obvious the precision isnt changing if the fps doesnt change with it on/off.

Bullshit 101, I play CS:S and I notice the blood stains and some floor tiles have shimmering. This is with a 7800 GT with highest quality in the control panel and the CS:S control panel

 

[FalllenAngell]

Originally posted by: Steelski

Originally posted by: FalllenAngell

Originally posted by: Steelski

Originally posted by: FalllenAngell
Reminds me of a few years back my buddies were harassing me because the trilinear filtering on my ATI card of the time was supposed to be some sort of driver cheat ....and I couldn't disable it! <gasp>

("inclination to bugwellen" notwithstanding)

I used to harass a friend because he had a wireless network..... it was very unstable at the time and i kept saying that it would fry his brain.

LOL!

which cards were you refering to by the way, rage or radeon? geforce or tnt?

It was my X800, and they told me ATI wasn't doing "full trilinear" or some crap like that. It looked good enough to me, served me well for over a year, and I didn't go blind.

 

[Janooo]

So NV got caught lying again. They don't have fastest OGL cards on high settings.
I wonder if it's going to reflect on their sales.

 

[FalllenAngell]

Originally posted by: Janooo
So NV got caught lying again. They don't have fastest OGL cards on high settings.
I wonder if it's going to reflect on their sales.

Let's hope not- I like these upcoming price wars! (and ATI might not lower their prices if they are selling all the cards)

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: FalllenAngell

Originally posted by: Steelski

Originally posted by: FalllenAngell

Originally posted by: Steelski

Originally posted by: FalllenAngell
Reminds me of a few years back my buddies were harassing me because the trilinear filtering on my ATI card of the time was supposed to be some sort of driver cheat ....and I couldn't disable it! <gasp>

("inclination to bugwellen" notwithstanding)

I used to harass a friend because he had a wireless network..... it was very unstable at the time and i kept saying that it would fry his brain.

LOL!

which cards were you refering to by the way, rage or radeon? geforce or tnt?

It was my X800, and they told me ATI wasn't doing "full trilinear" or some crap like that. It looked good enough to me, served me well for over a year, and I didn't go blind.

yeah that optimization was known as trylinear to the fanboi crowd, it was angle dependant af, and was lower quality than previous gen. Nvidia actually had a similar implementation in the 5000 (FX) series where they actually mixed bilinear and trilenear precision. (dubbed brilinear)

 

[CP5670]

Here is that older english article on this subject I was talking about earlier: http://www.3dcenter.org/artikel/g70_flimmern/index2_e.php
Not sure how relevant this is with the driver changes since then or how the X1800/X1900 AF falls in there.

i'm pretty sure i'm going ati in the next couple of weeks when i upgrade, but frankly i bought my 6800gt in 6/04, and having used it almost 2 full years now, can only say it was an excellent card which lasted me 2 generations (and will continue to be used in my second pc), and still plays every title out there with decent performance.

The 6800s weren't nearly as bad with this. I never found the shimmering to be a problem with my 6800 GT either, but with these 7800 cards I can see it in almost every game if I use the default quality settings.

Raising the LOD by clamping or just setting it higher will decrease shimmering but it will also decrease level of detail in the texture.

That's true, the LOD bias clamp slightly reduces the effect of AF, but it looks far better than the alternative in my opinion.

 

[Arkane13131]

i overclocked my 9800pro too far (just for giggles since im getting new comp) now everything shimmers its kinda nice..kinda like a sequenced gown over the images...its the textureblingbling and all that...err.....not really...its just a fried card. nvidia cards come fried from the factory is all. im still buying one...ati sided with microsoft and nvidia sided with sony this time...im siding with nvidia for now =P so who wants to arm wrestle!?!?!

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Zebo
talk about insult to injury...nV's IQ has been going down hill since 4 series.. god I wish ati would drop that .net crap and huge memuse.

How do I turn off all the optimizations?

fixed

 

[CP5670]

I thought the FX cards, for all their flaws, had perfect AF?

 

[Stoneburner]

Shimmering isn't a flaw its a feature!


<--- waits patiently for fedex to bring him a prize.

Anyway, this shimmering stuff has been going around forever, isn't it a driver level problem though? Couldn't Nvidia fix it (but take a performance hit)?

 

[moonboy403]

heh....this is reminding of rollo trying to burn ati to hell =P

 

[Stoneburner]

hey moonie, your memory, is it UCCC based and what voltage do you keep it at?

 

[moonboy403]

it's stock voltage....

the speed is nothing out of the ordinary

in fact, it's a low oc compare to many

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: FalllenAngell

Originally posted by: Ackmed
You post about shimming, was the game. It shimmers on every card. Its a simple fact that NV cards have far more shimmering than ATi's. Some people just dont want to admit it.

LOL

These message boards are a riot.

I have a 7800GTX, and while it may not have all the bells and whistles of the new ATI cards, I don't notice the distortion at the mipmap boundaries much either.

You act like everything is rendered purple and they don't want to admit it!

The simple fact is that is my GTX's shimmer, badly in my favorite game, BF2. And a lot in HL2 as well. I didnt act as if its rendered purple, dont put words in my mouth. It is very annoying however. Im glad that it doesnt bother you, but it is an issue for many others. And for others its not.

Ackmed, you know as well as I do that any annoyance derived from shimmering for any particular person, is relative to that particular person. The only person you can speak for is yourself of course. There are a whole lot of other people who probably have worse shimmering than you do, and don't even notice it. The only "fact" you provide here is that you are annoyed by your vid cards shimmering. "Badly" is also relative to the person using the word to describe it.

When you say "badly" it makes it sound like its a bad thing. When in reality, it is hardly noticable unless you're looking for it. And I know you look for it as any ATI fan using an nvidia card would. And I mean, you must really look. No words in your mouth here bud. And nobody did put words in your mouth. It's just you having a tantrum over someone contradicting you. This is what I see when you describe your shimmering woes. That person said, "you may as well say it rendered in purple" and not "You said it rendered in purple". Big difference.

So, keep it real please.

Anyone can see you are not.

ackmed should just ****** off and buy an X1900 so we dont have to hear his petty arguments about ****** like this. im sorry but its pathetic. its like he doesnt play the games, he just sits there with his telescope out looking for places where NV dont do as well as ATI

ackmed seriously if you dont like the shimmering you can see, suck it up, sell the GTX (or GTX's) and just buy a goddamn ATI card

 

[Gstanfor]

Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: Ackmed

Originally posted by: FalllenAngell

Originally posted by: Ackmed
You post about shimming, was the game. It shimmers on every card. Its a simple fact that NV cards have far more shimmering than ATi's. Some people just dont want to admit it.

LOL

These message boards are a riot.

I have a 7800GTX, and while it may not have all the bells and whistles of the new ATI cards, I don't notice the distortion at the mipmap boundaries much either.

You act like everything is rendered purple and they don't want to admit it!

The simple fact is that is my GTX's shimmer, badly in my favorite game, BF2. And a lot in HL2 as well. I didnt act as if its rendered purple, dont put words in my mouth. It is very annoying however. Im glad that it doesnt bother you, but it is an issue for many others. And for others its not.

Ackmed, you know as well as I do that any annoyance derived from shimmering for any particular person, is relative to that particular person. The only person you can speak for is yourself of course. There are a whole lot of other people who probably have worse shimmering than you do, and don't even notice it. The only "fact" you provide here is that you are annoyed by your vid cards shimmering. "Badly" is also relative to the person using the word to describe it.

When you say "badly" it makes it sound like its a bad thing. When in reality, it is hardly noticable unless you're looking for it. And I know you look for it as any ATI fan using an nvidia card would. And I mean, you must really look. No words in your mouth here bud. And nobody did put words in your mouth. It's just you having a tantrum over someone contradicting you. This is what I see when you describe your shimmering woes. That person said, "you may as well say it rendered in purple" and not "You said it rendered in purple". Big difference.

So, keep it real please.

Anyone can see you are not.

ackmed should just ****** off and buy an X1900 so we dont have to hear his petty arguments about ****** like this. im sorry but its pathetic. its like he doesnt play the games, he just sits there with his telescope out looking for places where NV dont do as well as ATI

ackmed seriously if you dont like the shimmering you can see, suck it up, sell the GTX (or GTX's) and just buy a goddamn ATI card

Totally agree here - whiners can feel free to f**k off to ATi; they won't be missed by the nVIDIA community and nVIDIA has enough customers that their money won't be missed either. Some people just don't deserve to own nVIDIA cards.

 

[Ackmed]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Ackmed, you know as well as I do that any annoyance derived from shimmering for any particular person, is relative to that particular person. The only person you can speak for is yourself of course. There are a whole lot of other people who probably have worse shimmering than you do, and don't even notice it. The only "fact" you provide here is that you are annoyed by your vid cards shimmering. "Badly" is also relative to the person using the word to describe it.

When you say "badly" it makes it sound like its a bad thing. When in reality, it is hardly noticable unless you're looking for it. And I know you look for it as any ATI fan using an nvidia card would. And I mean, you must really look. No words in your mouth here bud. And nobody did put words in your mouth. It's just you having a tantrum over someone contradicting you. This is what I see when you describe your shimmering woes. That person said, "you may as well say it rendered in purple" and not "You said it rendered in purple". Big difference.

So, keep it real please.

Anyone can see you are not.

I am "keeping it real". Its far from "hardly noticable" to me. And its much more noticable on a LCD with a higher res, than your little CRT. Certain games do it worse than others. Ive said before that BF2 is my favorite game right now, and I play it the most. It also happens to be one of the worst offenders of shimmering to me. Lost Coast in HL2 also does it, even worse than BF2. Im sorry you dont like to hear it, but I dont really care.

And yes he did put words in my mouth. "You act like everything is rendered purple and they don't want to admit it! " I didnt act or say anything like that. Some NV fans just dont like to hear the truth, that NV is behind in the IQ dept, and that shimmering is a problem to some people. I didnt throw a tantrum, that would be your pall otis, why not say the same thing to him?

Originally posted by: otispunkmeyer

ackmed should just ****** off and buy an X1900 so we dont have to hear his petty arguments about ****** like this. im sorry but its pathetic. its like he doesnt play the games, he just sits there with his telescope out looking for places where NV dont do as well as ATI

ackmed seriously if you dont like the shimmering you can see, suck it up, sell the GTX (or GTX's) and just buy a goddamn ATI card

Wow, are you 12 or what? Again, dont put words in my mouth. I do not need a telescope, its VERY easy to see. I play games very often, probably too much. My BF2 hours are pretty high... I got GTX's because the X1800 was late, and my X850XT/PE couldnt run games at 1920x1200 well enough for me. And my GTX's are sold. I believe NV has the better multi card solution still, and I need multi cards to run 1920x1200 faster enough for me sadly. I dont think its too much to ask, for NV go give us the consumers HQ AF and at least try to match ATi's IQ. I think they will, but the fact is, they dont right now. They've gone backwards since the FX series.

 

[FalllenAngell]

Originally posted by: Ackmed

And yes he did put words in my mouth. "You act like everything is rendered purple and they don't want to admit it! " I didnt act or say anything like that. Some NV fans just dont like to hear the truth, that NV is behind in the IQ dept, and that shimmering is a problem to some people.

Wow, you guys really go at it about the video cards.

I was just trying to say that it seems to me you're making a bigger deal out of this than it is. (like when my buddies tried to tell me my X800s AF was some sort of big driver cheat)

What's weird to me is that for something that's such a big deal to some of you isn't the focal point of every review on the web. I've barely seen it mentioned at all.

 

[DeathReborn]

Originally posted by: FalllenAngell

Originally posted by: Ackmed

And yes he did put words in my mouth. "You act like everything is rendered purple and they don't want to admit it! " I didnt act or say anything like that. Some NV fans just dont like to hear the truth, that NV is behind in the IQ dept, and that shimmering is a problem to some people.

Wow, you guys really go at it about the video cards.

I was just trying to say that it seems to me you're making a bigger deal out of this than it is. (like when my buddies tried to tell me my X800s AF was some sort of big driver cheat)

What's weird to me is that for something that's such a big deal to some of you isn't the focal point of every review on the web. I've barely seen it mentioned at all.

The reason most reviews don't mention it is the fact that it's not a widespread concern. It's just those fanboys & IQ Cultists that blow things out of proportion. Yes there is some shimmering in BF2 etc BUT I don't see it when i'm blowing the living hell out of people.

They could make games thsat look like crap but if they're fun to play then i'm all for it. Some people just find no "fun" in games anymore it seems.