Question NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 REVIEWS, – Faster Than GTX 1070 Ti For $349 US

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ub4ty

Senior member
Jun 21, 2017
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#76
Part of the problem is that NVidia hasn’t faced much competition in the last several years. AMD only had products aimed at the mainstream, and the crypto boom basically removes them from a large part of that market segment as is.

It’s very similar to the situation with Intel where we sat on four cores for so many years in a row. Even in nature you’ll find that animals only run as fast as necessary to escape whatever wants to eat them. A lack of competition breeds laziness and complacency.
That's a part of reality... A time tested and studied one. An executive should know better and plan accordingly. Before Turing launched I detailed in full that Nvidia would commit a series of mistakes and I'm pleasantly shocked that they committed every last one of them. I detailed a pair trade of long AMD short intel and Nvidia and Jensen and bonehead Intel delivered Immensely. Greed, laziness, and complacency are there. It doesn't mean one should be foolish and fall privy to them at their peak. Especially when there's technology sitting on a shelf somewhere that can be pushed to market... There's no excuse for this other than pure greed. Innovate or die is the mantra. Anyone in tech knows better but greed compels them to ignore this reality. Imagination Technologies and the company they bought had Ray tracing Hardware IP almost a decade ago. This isn't new technology and nothing compelled Nvidia to price gouge here. Intel had tons of IP to do exactly what AMD is now doing but they didn't because they wanted to price gouge. This isn't laziness or complacency.. It's pure unadulterated greed plan and simple.. A product of an increasingly out-dated and myopic form of ignorant capitalism. Globally, it's costing America as a whole. The mantra I see going forward is : Innovate, make your money, and get out of the way. This lingering and gouging is a thing of the past. In tech, someone is always on your heels. There is no 'relax'. Every tech executive knows this and pays the price when they forget:
Innovate, make your coin, and get out of the way. Linger and die.

In fairness this just wipes out the gains of the last year. It should have been clear that the stock was being heavily overvalued and would need to correct eventually. If it hadn’t bubbled as much, I don’t think it would have crashed as hard as it did.
I don't use markets/stock price as a barometer. It always lags reality whereby it benefits wallstreet insiders the most. It's clearly disconnected with reality in a manner that screws over retail investors. That being said, a year and a half of gains was wiped out. The stock indeed had no business at those levels and the reason is because all of the markets Jensen highlighted Nvida would expand into that would be worth tens of billions were hot air. Weak AI is pure hype and people are starting to figure that out. They never had an establishment in the automotive or embedded markets. Crypto currencies are an absolute joke. So, as is always with financial scams, all of the pricing was based on hot air. The balloon has been deflated now that the reality is clear : They're just a GPU company with competition.

AMD definitely has the ball in their court now that NVidia has committed and played their hand. If they can get a competitive Navi card out for $200 - $300 they stand to have a real winner on their hands since NVidia has no traditional mainstream cards right now.

If AMD doesn’t have anything to show than the choice comes down to buying the more expensive NVidia card or simply not upgrading.
For me, it's buying a 7nm/PCIE 4.0 AMD GPU based on an open source stack targetted towards linux or no upgrade. Alternatively, I'll ride my Pascal cards well into 2020/2021 when the market comes back to reality or materializes the innovation/value I seek.

Meanwhile, if I want to play with RTX, I can and already had the ability to do so on Pascal.

The popular video games don't need 2080tis or 2060s. I can play Pubg on a 2400G APU from AMD if I chose to. When there's so much action on the screen, no one is stopping to smell the roses and observe the penumbra. 60fps is the same as 120fps... legendary graphics settings the same as medium graphics settings.. Everything is zooming by in a blur.
 
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Qwertilot

Golden Member
Nov 28, 2013
1,420
38
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#77
AMD definitely has the ball in their court now that NVidia has committed and played their hand. If they can get a competitive Navi card out for $200 - $300 they stand to have a real winner on their hands since NVidia has no traditional mainstream cards right now.
That is obviously something NV can fix really quite fast through - they’ve absolutely surely got a ~1070 speed Turing based chip to be the 2050 & down.

That’ll cover Navi OK, especially if they’ve cut the RT stuff out.

Just not launched yet due to the mountain of cards left over after the Crypto boom :(
 
Oct 27, 2006
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#78
Interesting. Lack of VRAM makes me cautious on this for 2020+, as PS5/XBXX will certainly have ~16GB or more of accessible memory, and no RTSS/RTX features. 11GB 1080ti may hold up pretty well.

It's tough because at 12nm with the baggage of the extra RTX die area usage/heat/power draw, it basically has to be a bigger and more expensive thing to improve in the segment, and the price increase negates much of the progress of the x60 card here. Someone that bought a good AIB 1070 when they released got nearly the same value literally donkey's years ago.

It definitely shows the difficulty in dropping a huge new feature set vs just expanding the existing shaders. If there was zero RTSS RTX stuff taking die space, this gen of cards could actually have been a good leap forward in performance in their segments, but without any real feature progress.

Maybe a future development will make it more balanced in terms of bringing more of the die space to bear in even non-RTX enhanced titles. RTSS itself is not a game changer, but really good and more mature raytracing performance could be, and especially if the RT hardware could be harnessed at some level to increase shader performance in a big way.
 

EXCellR8

Diamond Member
Sep 1, 2010
3,126
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#79
Meanwhile, if I want to play with RTX, I can and already had the ability to do so on Pascal.
yea but does your Pascal card look like this??



but seriously... who is designing these things?
 
Jun 23, 2005
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#80
The best thing about it is that is has all the performance of a 1070 ti for just the price of a 1070 ti!
 
Mar 10, 2004
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#81
The best thing about it is that is has all the performance of a 1070 ti for just the price of a 1070 ti!
Looks like it's in the $100 cheaper neighborhood to me vs a 1070ti?
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
6,493
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#83
Looks like it's in the $100 cheaper neighborhood to me vs a 1070ti?
Looking at Nowinstock's results, it looks like you were able to buy a new 1070 Ti for roughly $370-$400 if you were looking intently but only fairly recently.
 

Mopetar

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2011
4,514
454
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#84
That is obviously something NV can fix really quite fast through - they’ve absolutely surely got a ~1070 speed Turing based chip to be the 2050 & down.

That’ll cover Navi OK, especially if they’ve cut the RT stuff out.

Just not launched yet due to the mountain of cards left over after the Crypto boom :(
I've been wondering if they're going to release Turing (or at least RTX) below the 2060, since the ray tracing hardware really doesn't make sense below that 2060. You have to wonder what they're going to do with all of the left over GP106 dies that are rumored to be lying around.

It's been a long while since we've had a good rebadging effort from NVidia. Maybe they will have a GTX Turing part for the 2050, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see some old Pascal dies sold as a 2030 or something like that.
 
Mar 10, 2004
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#85
Thus making it $100 more expensive than it should ... a XX60 card should be more affordable.
I have no problem with NV's pricing. I don't need to buy anything from their 20 series. I have other choices.

$349 for the 2060 seems fine to me.
 
Mar 10, 2004
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#86
I've been wondering if they're going to release Turing (or at least RTX) below the 2060, since the ray tracing hardware really doesn't make sense below that 2060. You have to wonder what they're going to do with all of the left over GP106 dies that are rumored to be lying around.

It's been a long while since we've had a good rebadging effort from NVidia. Maybe they will have a GTX Turing part for the 2050, but I wouldn't be surprised if we see some old Pascal dies sold as a 2030 or something like that.
They seem set on the "RTX" theme, so I think it will continue further down the line.
 

GodisanAtheist

Golden Member
Nov 16, 2006
1,491
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#90
I guess lightning struck once with Maxwell and that was that. Can't expect that kind of intranode price/performance increase again. Next up is Turing die shrunk on 7nm EUV sometime in 2020. Might see a proper price realignment then after Navi has shown itself... Or maybe not.

These chips are huge for an x60 part and even if they're twice harvested the initial cost is still there. Mix with market forces with excess Pascal inventory and you have a wet thud this go around.

My aftermarket 980Ti is within striking range of this card and I picked it up for less over two years ago (albeit it was a used card).

Ok AMD, my money is yours if you give me something to upgrade to for $350 or less (not that I'm dying to upgrade at the moment, 980Ti has got to be one of the best cards NV has ever made).
 
Jun 23, 2005
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#91
Looks like it's in the $100 cheaper neighborhood to me vs a 1070ti?
$450 was the launch price of the 1070 ti, not the going rate. The 1070 ti has frequently been on sale all of December for $350-$359.
 
Aug 14, 2000
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#93
An overpriced card with a VRAM downgrade. What's the next "mainstream" price? $400? $500?
 

Shmee

Memory and Storage, Graphics Cards
Super Moderator
Sep 13, 2008
3,847
59
126
#94
I would wait and see, I would not buy an RTX card yet, maybe wait and see for next gen. I don't think it is ready for ray tracing anyway. Wait for Navi release at the mid to high range? Possibly if you want the best get a 2080Ti or wait for the next gen high end, hopefully cheaper due to a more normalized field of pricing and competition.

That said, with the 2060 being about equivalent to Vega or 1070Ti, it is at a decent point save for the 6GB of ram, so if one needs to buy a card like that now, options would be a deal on a 1070Ti or 1080, the 2060, or a good vega card on sale. Problem with the Vega competition is that it is higher priced generally due to lack of supply/possibly high demand? That said it is still a viable alternative, especially with a freesync monitor, if you can get a good deal on one with a good cooler, like the powercolor one or the Nitro.

I myself managed to snag a Nitro 64 for $500, so about what the 1080 was going for at the time, so not bad. Though now it should be coming down in price, if there was enough supply.
 
Oct 10, 1999
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#95
I think NVidia is trying to increase Prices because the Lower end continues to move up the Performance chart. This means more and more flawed chips need to be tossed as they can't perform well enough to be sold.

This might also be why AMD isn't too concerned about being the Performance leader. They and Intel have the Low end locked up. As long as they can compete with NVidia on the Medium to High ends of the Market they are doing well enough.
 

PeterScott

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2017
2,605
227
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#96
That said, with the 2060 being about equivalent to Vega or 1070Ti, it is at a decent point save for the 6GB of ram, so if one needs to buy a card like that now, options would be a deal on a 1070Ti or 1080, the 2060, or a good vega card on sale. Problem with the Vega competition is that it is higher priced generally due to lack of supply/possibly high demand? That said it is still a viable alternative, especially with a freesync monitor, if you can get a good deal on one with a good cooler, like the powercolor one or the Nitro.
Unlike the rest of the RTX lineup, at $350, the 2060, really does equal or better the field, even when you utterly ignore the RT features. You are still getting the latest Video encode/decode updates, and those free bonus tensor cores might find a use outside RT some day. At the same price point, I would definitely get a 2060 over a 1070Ti.

As far as the Vega options, the "freesync argument" just lost a lot of it's steam, with NVidia announcing support for Freesync monitors.
 
Oct 27, 2006
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#97
If this was the cost and performance with no new features, it would be disastrous. I don't fully fault Nvidia here. It's a big die and a lot of new stuff going on. The problem is that so far it does little for the average gamer, even at the very high end with fast refresh displays it's difficult to justify thanks to the enormous penalties so far.

Now a 2080ti with no RTX enabled IS faster than a 1080ti, but ye gads the price.

Seems like it perhaps would have been better timed with the 7nm drop, but IDK. I can see this being controversial in the Halls of Nvidia HQ. If not now, when? But like I said, for the gamer, ehhh. AMD isn't competing above GTX 1060 level yet in the mainstream, and Vega is mostly MIA or not priced competively with 1080 parts you can find if you want. I got a mint warrantied Aorus 1080ti for 400, it is nearly as good as my Strix 1080ti, couldn't beat it at the price for a big upgrade for my son.

Perhaps the rumored 1160 will be a good value? Weird times. Like I said I'm not crapping on Nvidia here, but it is definitely a tough situation. Massive die size, expensive new memory, questionable results.
 
Jun 23, 2005
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#98
I feel as though the whole RTX renaming and renumbering fiasco has basically been a smoke screen to cover for the fact that the cards offer little in the way of better value over cards two and a half years old.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator and Elite Member
Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
20,864
112
136
#99
Making this FE so difficult to service or mod is confusing. Big props for the Freesync support though.
 
Oct 27, 2006
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Making this FE so difficult to service or mod is confusing. Big props for the Freesync support though.
Yeah, I absolutely would never buy an FE model. I just dislike the designs compared to what the AIBs come up with. To be fair, the 20xx FEs at least perform decently. 9xx and 10xx FEs were completely blown off the map by good AIBs. Compared a FE 1080 to my old ROG Strix 1080 and it was like a different range of card almost. Way faster stock, even faster OC, and much quieter.
 


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