Question NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2060 REVIEWS, – Faster Than GTX 1070 Ti For $349 US

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Jun 23, 2005
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I wouldn't mind the FE variants of the 20 series cards. They actually look pretty elegant and manage to cool effectively with typical noise levels. Last gen FE cards were trash simply because they were blowers. Blowers suck ass. You know it, I know it. We all know it but cards with them continue to be made anyway. The 20 series in contrast was a welcome change to the trend.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
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Hopefully these cards do not experience the same issues as the other 20XX cards.

Once AIB's are common, I might replace my GTX780 with this.
 

Hans Gruber

Senior member
Dec 23, 2006
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Why is this card $350??? The mining market is dead. The 1060 with 6GB can be found for around $200. Why???
 
Jun 23, 2005
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I am talking pricing for 2060 @ $350.
I know. If it were priced like previous xx60 cards it would be $200-250. But if they had priced it like that, instead of slapping on another hundred dollars for their most basic version of the model, then the massive glut of 1060 cards rotting in their warehouses would see their prices crash. That's an outcome Nvidia is trying to avoid, clearing out six months of back logged stock slowly in small spurts while pricing the 20 series disproportionately higher to keep pricing on their previous products stable.
 
Oct 27, 2006
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I know. If it were priced like previous xx60 cards it would be $200-250. But if they had priced it like that, instead of slapping on another hundred dollars for their most basic version of the model, then the massive glut of 1060 cards rotting in their warehouses would see their prices crash. That's an outcome Nvidia is trying to avoid, clearing out six months of back logged stock slowly in small spurts while pricing the 20 series disproportionately higher to keep pricing on their previous products stable.
Yeah, unfortunately for us, Nvidia got totally pantsed by the mining craze. During it, they couldn't make them fast enough, and prices remained high. Production of GPUs is a complicated situation where you have a lot of outside vendors, order commitments for manufacturing and supplies, and it's like a big fat ship that doesn't stop or turn on a dime.

As a result of all this, with the extra inventory, missed financial targets, and flamed stock price, Nvidia is in full cash-in mode, compete with a basic monopoly on the market north of 1060/590. Only competing with leftover new and used 1070+. It's a recipe for poor value to the consumer, extra so with so much RTX die space filled with only marginally useful rudimentary raytracing/tensor stuff. For pure gaming only the 2080ti is a step up from previous flagship and it's almost ludicrously expensive.

I'm still optimistic that the mining crash continues with regards to GPU, and floods of cheap 10xx bring sizable downward pressure on price. All the better if AMD can bring a $250 2070 killer inside 12-16 months.

I have nothing against Nvidia, I have and am satisfied with a. 1080ti, but the past yearish has been god awful for PC gaming value. Mining, AMD stagnation, and RTX have been a brutal combo :(
 

Qwertilot

Golden Member
Nov 28, 2013
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I am talking pricing for 2060 @ $350.
Because it isn't an xx60 in old terms. Its an xx70 - and lines up with that heritage quite nicely.
(Beyond the only mild uptick in raw performance)

They'll have something down lower
 

PeterScott

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2017
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Why is this card $350??? The mining market is dead. The 1060 with 6GB can be found for around $200. Why???
GPU Die size and wanting to maintain margins.

1060 die: 200 mm2
1080 die: 314 mm2
1080ti die: 471 mm2

2060 die: 445 mm2

The most expensive component on a GPU card is the GPU die. 2060 die is more than twice the size of 1060 die, and is VERY close in size to the 1080ti die.

So it clearly a LOT more expensive to build a 2060 Ti than 1060 Ti.

So are you asking why NVidia isn't eating that cost? No company wants to sacrifice margins, so they pass on major production cost increases to consumers.
 

arandomguy

Senior member
Sep 3, 2013
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The best way to protest high prices. Stop buying their products.

Here is the problem. While there was a lack of generational improvement of perf/$ in line with past expectations the pricing is competitive in the actual market.

On PCpartpicker the lowest price for a Vega 56 is $333 and GTX 1070ti is $360 currently. The rest are all $400+.

If you want to use the wait argument the problem for a lot of people is that mining started impacting the consumer GPU market about 1.5 years ago. At some point people will reach the breaking point of waiting. This isn't a case anymore of people just waiting a few months, we're going into the waiting for years time period now.
 

Leadbox

Senior member
Oct 25, 2010
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GPU Die size and wanting to maintain margins.

1060 die: 200 mm2
1080 die: 314 mm2
1080ti die: 471 mm2

2060 die: 445 mm2

The most expensive component on a GPU card is the GPU die. 2060 die is more than twice the size of 1060 die, and is VERY close in size to the 1080ti die.

So it clearly a LOT more expensive to build a 2060 Ti than 1060 Ti.

So are you asking why NVidia isn't eating that cost? No company wants to sacrifice margins, so they pass on major production cost increases to consumers.
Meh! It's not like this is a new die.This is the same die as the 2080 and 2070. These chips could not make the cut as one of those two. I won't be surprised if we see a 2050Ti cut from this same die. I reckon they should have eaten a huge chunk the cost, or just waited on 7nm if they want they new tech to get a stronger foothold. I wonder if they'll be announcing record margins again when the figures for these parts come out, I won't be surprised if they do...
 

PeterScott

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2017
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Meh! It's not like this is a new die.This is the same die as the 2080 and 2070. These chips could not make the cut as one of those two. I won't be surprised if we see a 2050Ti cut from this same die. I reckon they should have eaten a huge chunk the cost, or just waited on 7nm if they want they new tech to get a stronger foothold. I wonder if they'll be announcing record margins again when the figures for these parts come out, I won't be surprised if they do...
These are NOT scavenged dies. 2060 is the high volume part, full yields on mature process are typically 90+ percent.

These dies cost more than double what a 1060 die costs. Period.
 

Charlie22911

Senior member
Mar 19, 2005
528
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GPU Die size and wanting to maintain margins.

1060 die: 200 mm2
1080 die: 314 mm2
1080ti die: 471 mm2

2060 die: 445 mm2

The most expensive component on a GPU card is the GPU die. 2060 die is more than twice the size of 1060 die, and is VERY close in size to the 1080ti die.

So it clearly a LOT more expensive to build a 2060 Ti than 1060 Ti.

So are you asking why NVidia isn't eating that cost? No company wants to sacrifice margins, so they pass on major production cost increases to consumers.
Past generations were bigger, this is something else; Nvidia and intel have MASSIVE margins even if they did "eat the cost".
 

PeterScott

Platinum Member
Jul 7, 2017
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Past generations were bigger, this is something else; Nvidia and intel have MASSIVE margins even if they did "eat the cost".
Silicon cost/area have gone up each generation as well. So you can really only compare a couple of generations back and:


960 die: 220 mm2
1060 die: 200 mm2
2060 die: 445 mm2

2060 is clearly a MASSIVE increase and a far outlier. Margins would shrink significantly if NVidia ate the cost increase.

I know in a nice fantasy world where GPU makers exist to make you happy, that would happen, but the real world doesn't work that way.

The production costs have increased by a large amount, and it's being passed on to the consumers, as expected.
 

Charlie22911

Senior member
Mar 19, 2005
528
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Silicon cost/area have gone up each generation as well. So you can really only compare a couple of generations back and:


960 die: 220 mm2
1060 die: 200 mm2
2060 die: 445 mm2

2060 is clearly a MASSIVE increase and a far outlier. Margins would shrink significantly if NVidia ate the cost increase.

I know in a nice fantasy world where GPU makers exist to make you happy, that would happen, but the real world doesn't work that way.

The production costs have increased by a large amount, and it's being passed on to the consumers, as expected.
I don't expect a free lunch, and I don't have a problem "paying to play"; look at my sig for evidence of that if you must.
I do have a problem with their pricing strategy though, TSMCs 12nm node is pretty well understood at this point and costs have gone down accordingly so I don't buy the production cost explanation.
 

Hitman928

Golden Member
Apr 15, 2012
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These are NOT scavenged dies. 2060 is the high volume part, full yields on mature process are typically 90+ percent.

These dies cost more than double what a 1060 die costs. Period.
Wikipedia lists both the 1060 and 1070 as TU106 with the exact same die size and number of transistors. Characterizing the 2060 is up to interpretation, but it is a die that has been cut down from the 2070, unless wikipedia is wrong.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_20_series
 

coercitiv

Diamond Member
Jan 24, 2014
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I know in a nice fantasy world where GPU makers exist to make you happy, that would happen, but the real world doesn't work that way.
Actually this is the exact reason GPU makers exist, to make us happy. What did you think, that they exist to remind us of the real work we need to perform every day?!

Gaming GPUs are toys. Period.
 
Jun 23, 2004
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Why is this card $350??? The mining market is dead. The 1060 with 6GB can be found for around $200. Why???
There is a price and power draw premium for having RTX hardware on the card. Cannot avoid it, ray tracing is literally expensive.
 

mohit9206

Golden Member
Jul 2, 2013
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Because it isn't an xx60 in old terms. Its an xx70 - and lines up with that heritage quite nicely.
(Beyond the only mild uptick in raw performance)

They'll have something down lower
It is an x60 card. If it was x70 then it would perform similarly to the 1080Ti.
 


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