Nvidia G71 (7900 Ultra) 90nm 750MHz

[Relion]

Originally posted by: CP5670
Just as I'm about to place an order for two 7800GTs, this news comes out. 😛 Although with no fixed date and likely poor availability / inflated prices for a while, I'm not really expecting much soon from either this or the R580.

Originally posted by: linkgoron
Yeah, becuase Doom 1 was a really complicated game...
BTW look at games like SC, they're not dumb games.

There are a few gems like that still around, but for the most part I haven't been very impressed with games in the last 18 months or so either.

By the way, the next SC game looks strange. Fisher has turned into a criminal or something. 😕

So an older dx9 card like the x800's wont run Vista? That's unlikely, maybe without the 3d windoze and crap, but I dont like that stuff anyways. It's ridiculous if Vista will have higher system requirements than modern dx9 games.

It's supposed to retain the classic 98/2000 interface option according to wikipedia. I'll definitely be sticking with that, just like I do on XP.

What Fisher ?

 

[Acanthus]

G71 is not the RSX, G80 is, G71 is a refresh of the G70 design (die shrink).

G80 is the RSX core, based on a 80-90nm 48 pipe unified architecture.

 

[RelaxTheMind]

ok... when gpu clock speeds reach within 100mhz of my cpu clock... I think I will have to upgrade.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
G71 is not the RSX, G80 is, G71 is a refresh of the G70 design (die shrink).

G80 is the RSX core, based on a 80-90nm 48 pipe unified architecture.

link please. where did you get this from?

I know, and certain that G80 is DX10, 48 unified shader architecture plus GDD4 memory.

 

[destrekor]

Acanthus, where are you getting that info?
everything I am finding on the interweb is pointing to the g71 being the RSX, and the RSX does not feature 48pipe UA. its looking like its going to be like the G71 with 24 pixel pipelines and 8 vertex shaders. whether or not it has exactly those pipes is beyond speculation at this point, but it will not have UA. It is based off the G71 though.

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
G71 is not the RSX, G80 is, G71 is a refresh of the G70 design (die shrink).

G80 is the RSX core, based on a 80-90nm 48 pipe unified architecture.

what the hell are you talking about?? nvidia has even said that the rsx and the g71 are the SAME thing.

 

[Slitherythesnake]

I hope there's a pipe increase in the G71, although that might depend of the number of pipes in the G80.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: destrekor
Acanthus, where are you getting that info?
everything I am finding on the interweb is pointing to the g71 being the RSX, and the RSX does not feature 48pipe UA. its looking like its going to be like the G71 with 24 pixel pipelines and 8 vertex shaders. whether or not it has exactly those pipes is beyond speculation at this point, but it will not have UA. It is based off the G71 though.

Agreed. Plus the G80 is most probably the long awaited NV50, NVs next gen from NV40.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster

Originally posted by: Acanthus
G71 is not the RSX, G80 is, G71 is a refresh of the G70 design (die shrink).

G80 is the RSX core, based on a 80-90nm 48 pipe unified architecture.

link please. where did you get this from?

I know, and certain that G80 is DX10, 48 unified shader architecture plus GDD4 memory.

You dont need a link, theyve been using this naming scheme for a decade

1st number denotes generation, 2nd number denotes revision.

G7 = 7th gen 0 = rev 1, G7 = 7th gen 1 = rev 2/3/4 etc (they dont always do revisions in order)

G71 is the G70 architecture revised.
G80 is the unified RSX chip design going into the PS3. (or G71 could be if they scaled back the PS3 to no longer be a unified GPU)

Edit: If nvidia has stated that the RSX is the G71, that means the PS3 has been scaled back and will not use a unified pipe architecture, which is horribly disappointing.

 

[Keysplayr]

Acanthus, I have read that the RSX is the G71 as well. Whether they are "exactly" alike is unknown. G80, as others have stated here, will be a next gen architecture. If you have any source that says differently, please make it known. Very interested.

 

[Cookie Monster]

First of all, we dont even know if the G71 is "just" a die shrink from G70. We dont even know if the two cores are the same or not. Its all specualation.

Having a unifed shader architecture means nothing. I dont see why people hype about unified architectures. It doesnt even improve performance very much theorectially.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
First of all, we dont even know if the G71 is "just" a die shrink from G70. We dont even know if the two cores are the same or not. Its all specualation.

Having a unifed shader architecture means nothing. I dont see why people hype about unified architectures. It doesnt even improve performance very much theorectially.

Im not hyping unified architectures at all, i was just saying the info ive seen.

Appearently i havent been watching closely enough as i saw a while back that the RSX was a unified chip. Knowing this, the RSX simply could not be a G7X chip because thats not just a die revision, thats a completely new architecture.

The G80 is a unified chip, the G71 will not be.

With a die shrink theres a lot of things they could change, increased pipes, increased clock, revise the pipes for better efficiency, improve the encoder, change or add features etc. One thing they will NOT do with a revision change is change the basic architectural design, from a layout standpoint the card will operate like a G70.

Edit: Spelling

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster

Originally posted by: Acanthus
G71 is not the RSX, G80 is, G71 is a refresh of the G70 design (die shrink).

G80 is the RSX core, based on a 80-90nm 48 pipe unified architecture.

link please. where did you get this from?

I know, and certain that G80 is DX10, 48 unified shader architecture plus GDD4 memory.

You dont need a link, theyve been using this naming scheme for a decade

1st number denotes generation, 2nd number denotes revision.

G7 = 7th gen 0 = rev 1, G7 = 7th gen 1 = rev 2/3/4 etc (they dont always do revisions in order)

G71 is the G70 architecture revised.
G80 is the unified RSX chip design going into the PS3. (or G71 could be if they scaled back the PS3 to no longer be a unified GPU)

Edit: If nvidia has stated that the RSX is the G71, that means the PS3 has been scaled back and will not use a unified pipe architecture, which is horribly disappointing.

"We managed to confirm that we can actually talk about RSX, as it's G71 and vice versa. Sony just wants millions of chips and it can get them at 90 nanometre. When it comes to graphic performance, the RSX can process 24 pixels with its 24 pipelines while an Xbox 360 powered with ATI's Xenos, R500 chip can do no more no less than double, 48 pixels per clock." http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=27463. i know its the inquirer but that info is all over the web.

 

[jiffylube1024]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Acanthus, I have read that the RSX is the G71 as well. Whether they are "exactly" alike is unknown. G80, as others have stated here, will be a next gen architecture. If you have any source that says differently, please make it known. Very interested.

It would make sense that the RSX and the G71 are the same design; Nvidia's already got the design for RSX so why not release it as a desktop GPU as well?

One thing with the RSX, is that it runs at 550MHz, but of course that is for yield purposes and because it is going into a console where it will have inferior cooling to a standalone GPU. So an estimate of 750 Mhz in a PC GPU for G71 sounds feasible.

I was wondering how Nvidia was predicting such an optimistic 550 Mhz for RSX last year (when a 450 Mhz 7800GTX was about as good as it got), but 90nm and low-k should allow the RSX to run at 550 Mhz with ease.

As for that speculation that G80 is the RSX, that is false because the RSX has been confirmed to use GDDR3 memory. Furthermore, from what I gather both the Xbox360 and PS3 are using SM 3.0 compliant hardware; as others have said I don't think SM 4.0 has been finalized and nobody is sure if SM 4.0= WGF 1.0 or not...

---------------------

As for a 750 Mhz GeForce in a PC - it's going to be an interesting year next year. I can't help but think that 7800GTX 512MB users who spend $750 on their cards would feel ripped off if a "7900 Ultra" comes out within 6 months, but I guess it's their money.

The desktop GPU market has gotten quite intense, and Nvidia is showing some amazing resistance to losing their position of #1 in terms of the performance crown. The 9700 Pro caught Nvidia with their pants down; ever since, they've been at the battle with double the vigour. The 512MB 7800GTX was a surprising counter to the X1800XT's small lead in the GPU market, and now the rumoured "7900 Ultra" sounds like they're already anticipating R580. Kudos to Nvidia for being so ferocious; I only wonder if GPU buyers in general will feel burned by the increased prices and decreased longevity of GPU's.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: Acanthus
You dont need a link, theyve been using this naming scheme for a decade

1st number denotes generation, 2nd number denotes revision.

G7 = 7th gen 0 = rev 1, G7 = 7th gen 1 = rev 2/3/4 etc (they dont always do revisions in order)

G71 is the G70 architecture revised.
G80 is the unified RSX chip design going into the PS3. (or G71 could be if they scaled back the PS3 to no longer be a unified GPU)

they just released this naming system. previously, they went 'nvxx.' in the case of the 7800, the original code name was NV45. that is, it is the refresh of the NV40, which was the 6800.

 

[Steelski]

the unified hardware is in the Xbox360. and the chip is beyond most of the SM3.0
The G71 is probably the same as the RSX, but the RSX is not going to be built by Nvidia. that was sold to Sony.
Nvidia did state that they would have a more powerful graphics card than the RSX by the end of the year so that would be the GTX 512MB.
The 7900 series (dont call it ultra as there is no ultra in this gen let alone the next) will most probably have high clocks but i dont see how they will raise the memory clocks if they dont support GDDR4 at the moment (just a die shrink wont be enough IMO).
I think that in the end we all loose out as competition is at an altime high and prices are just not going to go sensible anytime soon.

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: Steelski
the unified hardware is in the Xbox360. and the chip is beyond most of the SM3.0
The G71 is probably the same as the RSX, but the RSX is not going to be built by Nvidia. that was sold to Sony.
Nvidia did state that they would have a more powerful graphics card than the RSX by the end of the year so that would be the GTX 512MB.
The 7900 series (dont call it ultra as there is no ultra in this gen let alone the next) will most probably have high clocks but i dont see how they will raise the memory clocks if they dont support GDDR4 at the moment (just a die shrink wont be enough IMO).
I think that in the end we all loose out as competition is at an altime high and prices are just not going to go sensible anytime soon.

sony doesnt make graphics cards. the rsx WILL be made by nvidia.

 

[destrekor]

well in effect both of you are right
sony I do believe own's the IP and will manufacture the card themselves at TSMC. But it is nVidia's reference design.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: toyota

Originally posted by: Steelski
the unified hardware is in the Xbox360. and the chip is beyond most of the SM3.0
The G71 is probably the same as the RSX, but the RSX is not going to be built by Nvidia. that was sold to Sony.
Nvidia did state that they would have a more powerful graphics card than the RSX by the end of the year so that would be the GTX 512MB.
The 7900 series (dont call it ultra as there is no ultra in this gen let alone the next) will most probably have high clocks but i dont see how they will raise the memory clocks if they dont support GDDR4 at the moment (just a die shrink wont be enough IMO).
I think that in the end we all loose out as competition is at an altime high and prices are just not going to go sensible anytime soon.

sony doesnt make graphics cards. the rsx WILL be made by nvidia.

The RSX GPU design is from nvidia. Sony will actually be fabricating the PS3 RSX GPU using their own 90nm fabs. This was all over the web at one point, and unless anything has changed, this is how is was known to be.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: destrekor
well in effect both of you are right
sony I do believe own's the IP and will manufacture the card themselves at TSMC. But it is nVidia's reference design.

I thought SONY had their own fabs? Is this incorrect?

 

[Steelski]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: toyota

Originally posted by: Steelski
the unified hardware is in the Xbox360. and the chip is beyond most of the SM3.0
The G71 is probably the same as the RSX, but the RSX is not going to be built by Nvidia. that was sold to Sony.
Nvidia did state that they would have a more powerful graphics card than the RSX by the end of the year so that would be the GTX 512MB.
The 7900 series (dont call it ultra as there is no ultra in this gen let alone the next) will most probably have high clocks but i dont see how they will raise the memory clocks if they dont support GDDR4 at the moment (just a die shrink wont be enough IMO).
I think that in the end we all loose out as competition is at an altime high and prices are just not going to go sensible anytime soon.

sony doesnt make graphics cards. the rsx WILL be made by nvidia.

The RSX GPU design is from nvidia. Sony will actually be fabricating the PS3 RSX GPU using their own 90nm fabs. This was all over the web at one point, and unless anything has changed, this is how is was known to be.

So the rumour would suggest. I expect each company to tweak the design according to their needs. Thus making the G71 slightly different to the RSX. All i know is that the next round looks a lot more interesting than this one with the R580 being in theory able to process a lot more than the R520. it will mean that the architectures will almost certainly have a lot more comparable MHZ next time and it really will matter who has more per clock power. I just dont see how just a die shrink and higher clocks will compare to a card with probably similar clocks and 3 times the pass power of the R520. Even if they both have GDDR4 they will still be similarly clocked.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Originally posted by: Steelski

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: toyota

Originally posted by: Steelski
the unified hardware is in the Xbox360. and the chip is beyond most of the SM3.0
The G71 is probably the same as the RSX, but the RSX is not going to be built by Nvidia. that was sold to Sony.
Nvidia did state that they would have a more powerful graphics card than the RSX by the end of the year so that would be the GTX 512MB.
The 7900 series (dont call it ultra as there is no ultra in this gen let alone the next) will most probably have high clocks but i dont see how they will raise the memory clocks if they dont support GDDR4 at the moment (just a die shrink wont be enough IMO).
I think that in the end we all loose out as competition is at an altime high and prices are just not going to go sensible anytime soon.

sony doesnt make graphics cards. the rsx WILL be made by nvidia.

The RSX GPU design is from nvidia. Sony will actually be fabricating the PS3 RSX GPU using their own 90nm fabs. This was all over the web at one point, and unless anything has changed, this is how is was known to be.

So the rumour would suggest. I expect each company to tweak the design according to their needs. Thus making the G71 slightly different to the RSX. All i know is that the next round looks a lot more interesting than this one with the R580 being in theory able to process a lot more than the R520. it will mean that the architectures will almost certainly have a lot more comparable MHZ next time and it really will matter who has more per clock power. I just dont see how just a die shrink and higher clocks will compare to a card with probably similar clocks and 3 times the pass power of the R520. Even if they both have GDDR4 they will still be similarly clocked.

Are you saying the R580 will have 3 times more processing power compared to a R520? The R580 will have 3 times more power compared to the R530, which the R580 is based on.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster

Originally posted by: Steelski

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: toyota

Originally posted by: Steelski
the unified hardware is in the Xbox360. and the chip is beyond most of the SM3.0
The G71 is probably the same as the RSX, but the RSX is not going to be built by Nvidia. that was sold to Sony.
Nvidia did state that they would have a more powerful graphics card than the RSX by the end of the year so that would be the GTX 512MB.
The 7900 series (dont call it ultra as there is no ultra in this gen let alone the next) will most probably have high clocks but i dont see how they will raise the memory clocks if they dont support GDDR4 at the moment (just a die shrink wont be enough IMO).
I think that in the end we all loose out as competition is at an altime high and prices are just not going to go sensible anytime soon.

sony doesnt make graphics cards. the rsx WILL be made by nvidia.

The RSX GPU design is from nvidia. Sony will actually be fabricating the PS3 RSX GPU using their own 90nm fabs. This was all over the web at one point, and unless anything has changed, this is how is was known to be.

So the rumour would suggest. I expect each company to tweak the design according to their needs. Thus making the G71 slightly different to the RSX. All i know is that the next round looks a lot more interesting than this one with the R580 being in theory able to process a lot more than the R520. it will mean that the architectures will almost certainly have a lot more comparable MHZ next time and it really will matter who has more per clock power. I just dont see how just a die shrink and higher clocks will compare to a card with probably similar clocks and 3 times the pass power of the R520. Even if they both have GDDR4 they will still be similarly clocked.

Are you saying the R580 will have 3 times more processing power compared to a R520? The R580 will have 3 times more power compared to the R530, which the R580 is based on.

What the heck is the R530. First I'm hearing of it. I have only heard the RV515/530 "I think" hehe.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: toyota

Originally posted by: Acanthus

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster

Originally posted by: Acanthus
G71 is not the RSX, G80 is, G71 is a refresh of the G70 design (die shrink).

G80 is the RSX core, based on a 80-90nm 48 pipe unified architecture.

link please. where did you get this from?

I know, and certain that G80 is DX10, 48 unified shader architecture plus GDD4 memory.

You dont need a link, theyve been using this naming scheme for a decade

1st number denotes generation, 2nd number denotes revision.

G7 = 7th gen 0 = rev 1, G7 = 7th gen 1 = rev 2/3/4 etc (they dont always do revisions in order)

G71 is the G70 architecture revised.
G80 is the unified RSX chip design going into the PS3. (or G71 could be if they scaled back the PS3 to no longer be a unified GPU)

Edit: If nvidia has stated that the RSX is the G71, that means the PS3 has been scaled back and will not use a unified pipe architecture, which is horribly disappointing.

"We managed to confirm that we can actually talk about RSX, as it's G71 and vice versa. Sony just wants millions of chips and it can get them at 90 nanometre. When it comes to graphic performance, the RSX can process 24 pixels with its 24 pipelines while an Xbox 360 powered with ATI's Xenos, R500 chip can do no more no less than double, 48 pixels per clock." http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=27463. i know its the inquirer but that info is all over the web.

That would confirm that RSX was scaled back to a quad architecture instead of unified. But the article is misleading in that it claims that Xenos can do 48 pixel ops per clock, it CAN do that if theres no vertex ops at all.

24+8 is 32 rendering pipes compared to Xenos' 48+0 dynamic unified pipes that can do both.

It does appear that if G71 really is the RSX, ATis Xenos will be the more powerful chip in the console wars.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Acanthus
You dont need a link, theyve been using this naming scheme for a decade

1st number denotes generation, 2nd number denotes revision.

G7 = 7th gen 0 = rev 1, G7 = 7th gen 1 = rev 2/3/4 etc (they dont always do revisions in order)

G71 is the G70 architecture revised.
G80 is the unified RSX chip design going into the PS3. (or G71 could be if they scaled back the PS3 to no longer be a unified GPU)

they just released this naming system. previously, they went 'nvxx.' in the case of the 7800, the original code name was NV45. that is, it is the refresh of the NV40, which was the 6800.

Regardless of the timetable, that is how the system works. G71 would not be a new architecture.