NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

[ponyo]

I just got my booster this weekend in Nebraska. All they cared about was that I said that I was an essential worker with occupational exposure.

I switched from Pfizer (1st and 2nd dose) to Moderna for the booster. The larger dose of the Moderna vs Pfizer did have a bit worse side effects. I was sleepy for the entire next day.

I got my booster today, and they didn't ask any question about whether I qualified or not. All they checked was to see if it's been at least 6 months since my 2nd shot. The underlying medical conditions eligibility is really broad so lot of people can qualify under that. And at least in my area, covid vaccine appointments are really easy to schedule with plenty of empty spots. It's not like there's shortage of the vaccines right now, and I'm taking vaccine away from someone else.

 

[Muadib]

I got my booster today, and they didn't ask any question about whether I qualified or not. All they checked was to see if it's been at least 6 months since my 2nd shot. The underlying medical conditions eligibility is really broad so lot of people can qualify under that. And at least in my area, covid vaccine appointments are really easy to schedule with plenty of empty spots. It's not like there's shortage of the vaccines right now, and I'm taking vaccine away from someone else.

When I got my booster last month, the 6 month thing was all they cared about. I told my nephew to go and see if he can get a booster. His first shot was J&J, and I just don't have any faith in it.

 

[Zorba]

When I got my booster last month, the 6 month thing was all they cared about. I told my nephew to go and see if he can get a booster. His first shot was J&J, and I just don't have any faith in it.

Anyone can get a booster with J&J after 2 months.

 

[bononos]

3rd reason that it is unknowable: we still don't know how durable your immunity is after you get Covid-19. The studies are beginning to come in, but it takes time since we have to wait for enough people to be infected and then have their immunity wane. We do know that Covid-19 immunity is at least 8 months. But how much longer than 8 months is yet to be determined. The median coronavirus (non-Covid) immunity after infection is 16 months.
.....

Could you explain what you mean by waning immunity? I thought that vaccines were supposed to give lifelong t-cell immunity, are you saying that that is lacking or that the IgG type immunity needs to be topped up?

 

[ponyo]

Moderna booster kicked my ass. I had flu like symptoms all night and had difficulty sleeping. My body alternated from freezing cold to burning hot and it feels like I got beat up by gang of leprechauns. Definitely not pleasant experience. Did not get a good night of sleep.

 

[Zorba]

Moderna booster kicked my ass. I had flu like symptoms all night and had difficulty sleeping. My body alternated from freezing cold to burning hot and it feels like I got beat up by gang of leprechauns. Definitely not pleasant experience. Did not get a good night of sleep.

Did you take Tylenol or anything else?

 

[ponyo]

Did you take Tylenol or anything else?

Tylenol. Last night was pretty brutal. Feeling somewhat better this morning but still hurting.

 

[dullard]

Could you explain what you mean by waning immunity? I thought that vaccines were supposed to give lifelong t-cell immunity, are you saying that that is lacking or that the IgG type immunity needs to be topped up?

The link below is data on antibody levels of 177 other coronaviruses. The paper assumes an endemic disease (a disease that we have to live with for the rest of our lives like the common cold). It determines that the median endemic coronavirus will reinfect you every 16 months, although there is a wide range from 3 to 63 months. Of course, if we can somehow stop Covid-19 before it becomes endemic, then this is not applicable.
https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pii=S2666-5247(21)00219-6

You are correct that T-cells can give lifelong immunity. The paper above does not include T-cells in the model. But, there are two major limitations to T-cells. (1) T-cells don't work very well against viral mutations. (2) T-cells take a week to really ramp up and usually two weeks to reach peak levels. But Covid-19 (especially the delta variant) has peak viral loads at about day 4--well before our T-cells are fully effective.

https://els-jbs-prod-cdn.jbs.elsevierhealth.com/cms/attachment/2ba3ba26-f3a8-4fd3-a493-321e38c1e066/gr3a.jpg

And the delta plus variant may be even faster than delta. Meaning that yes, even if we have T-cell immunity, the infection may have peaked long before our T-cells have much chance to do anything.

Delta 'Plus' Covid variant may be more transmissible

It may be more contagious than Delta, but there is no evidence yet that it causes worse illness, experts say.

www.bbc.com

 

[Captante]

Moderna booster kicked my ass. I had flu like symptoms all night and had difficulty sleeping. My body alternated from freezing cold to burning hot and it feels like I got beat up by gang of leprechauns. Definitely not pleasant experience. Did not get a good night of sleep.

Oddly Moderna shot #1 was by far the worst for me, #2 didn't do much at all in terms of side effects and the booster was a toned down version of the same symptoms from #1.

The only question I was asked at my local CVS was the date of my original shot(s)... far as I know they'll allow pretty much anyone to get a booster now although YMMV depending on where you go. I do know however that all it takes to be 100% "legit" is your MD saying you need one.

 

[Charmonium]

About "natural" immunity.

You might find this surprising but the immunity of those who have had active infections is relatively temporary.

Why? No one really knows for sure, but this virus is in the same family as cold viruses. And for some reason, your immune system either doesn't take them very seriously, tends to forget them quickly and/or has some means of evading prolonged immunity.

The following is a bit speculative but it appears that in populations such as some east asians where similar viruses are known to be endemic that there have been genetic changes in the population that appear to give some modicum of immunity.

Whatever the case though, even with the rush of antibodies caused by the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, your immune system STILL tends to forget the virus very quickly compared to say, something like polio that your immune system remembers forever.

That's why you keep hearing about boosters and annual flu-like vaccines.

 

[Captante]

About "natural" immunity.

You might find this surprising but the immunity of those who have had active infections is relatively temporary.

Why? No one really knows for sure, but this virus is in the same family as cold viruses. And for some reason, your immune system either doesn't take them very seriously, tends to forget them quickly and/or has some means of evading prolonged immunity.

The following is a bit speculative but it appears that in populations such as some east asians where similar viruses are known to be endemic that there have been genetic changes in the population that appear to give some modicum of immunity.

Whatever the case though, even with the rush of antibodies caused by the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, your immune system STILL tends to forget the virus very quickly to say, something like polio that your immune system remembers forever.

That's why you keep hearing about boosters and annual flu-like vaccines.

Its common knowledge that the influenza vaccine's immunity wanes eventually and that the flu virus mutates multiple times every year... not sure why so many folks are questioning a "booster" or even new vaccine being needed for Covid.

But then I really don't understand the twisted "reasoning" of a LOT of Americans these days!

(I can still recall my shock and amazement as a child when I realized how many people actually BECOME ANGRY when they are forced to think things through instead of just "following the leader")

 

[njdevilsfan87]

I want to get boosted but I want to do it when my son is eligible to get his shot so we are all on the same schedule. This way we can all travel during a period when all of us have peak antibodies. I'm guessing my 2 year old won't be eligible until February.

Since neither my wife nor I work in an office or participate in much of anything indoor yet, I think we should be fine. Thanksgiving seems like it will happen just before any spike in California (and historically we seem to lag the rest of the country likely due to outdoor weather lasting longer), and Christmas may be a fully outdoor gathering. At home test kits will be used by everyone prior to either.

 

[dullard]

I want to get boosted but I want to do it when my son is eligible to get his shot so we are all on the same schedule. This way we can all travel during a period when all of us have peak antibodies. I'm guessing my 2 year old won't be eligible until February.

Pfizer's CEO keeps claiming that they will get the 2 to 4 year old vaccine trial data to the FDA before the end of this year. Then the FDA will take at least a month to evaluate it. So, your February estimate seems spot on.

 

[Charmonium]

For those of you at high risk, the possibility of using the depression/OCD drug Luvox/fluvoxamine seems to be gaining data-based viability.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/langlo/article/PIIS2214-109X(21)00448-4/fulltext

This is an SSRI drug - serotonin-specific reuptake inhibitor.

I've been taking this drug for several months now but I had to gradually titrate up since my previous experience with the drug was so fraught. Initially, I had problems similar to the last time - a sort pervasive dysthymia slightly worse than what I normally experience. But I started at an extremely low dose of IIRC, 50mg. per day.

So if you try this drug to help protect you, the study dose was 100mg twice per day. That's what I'm on now and doing quite well on it. But as I said, it took me about 4-5 months to work up to this dose.

If you get this, they're going to hit you with 200mg per day. Now, remember, you might get by with this level and experience no issues whatsoever. But you might be like me and have a serious issue with such a dose.

However, unless you get to the point of wanting to kill yourself, or think you might, try to stick with it since it could save your life.

edit - not sure why the link says define_me but if you click it it does work. The link is to an article in the Lancet.

 

[dullard]

edit - not sure why the link says define_me but if you click it it does work. The link is to an article in the Lancet.

Edit your post and change the URL unfurl value from "true" to "false" like this:
URL unfurl="false"

 

[MrSquished]

Just as bad was saying global warming crisis is a hoax. Trump should be bulldozed into the trash heap of history.

Trump contributed by making it generally fashionable to deny any reality by calling it fake news, and promoting wackadoo shit like Hydrochloroquine. It's not him directly responsible for spreading specific anti-vaxx disinformation, but it is his fault for leading a cult whose main way of functionating within their worldview is to call anything fake news they want to disagree with.

 

[dullard]

Trump contributed by making it generally fashionable to deny any reality by calling it fake news, and promoting wackadoo shit like Hydrochloroquine. It's not him directly responsible for spreading specific anti-vaxx disinformation, but it is his fault for leading a cult whose main way of functionating within their worldview is to call anything fake news they want to disagree with.

The truth is in between. Anti-vax people (which decades previously were hippy leftists) were gravitating to the Republican party well before Covid-19 hit. Here is a pre-Covid link: https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/27/anti-vaccine-republican-mainstream-1344955 . So, in that sense, Trump did not cause the anti-vax sentiment.

But, then the entire Trump vaccine strategy is to look like a hero for Operation Warp Speed, reopening the economy, and then blaming Democrats since Covid first hit Democratic states the hardest: https://www.businessinsider.com/kushner-covid-19-plan-maybe-axed-for-political-reasons-report-2020-7 Building a whole political strategy around the vaccines significantly magnified the vaccine hesitancy when the vaccines came out after the election. It meant that Trump did not get to claim victory on Covid prior to the election.

 

[JujuFish]

The underlying medical conditions eligibility is really broad so lot of people can qualify under that.

No kidding. Being overweight (BMI of 25+) covers nearly three quarters of adults here. Once I saw how broad the eligibility list is, I went ahead and got my booster yesterday. Last night and this morning was garbage incarnate, 102 fever and all the lovely things that come with that, but I'm actually feeling okay-ish now.

 

[dullard]

No kidding. Being overweight (BMI of 25+) covers nearly three quarters of adults here. Once I saw how broad the eligibility list is, I went ahead and got my booster yesterday. Last night and this morning was garbage incarnate, 102 fever and all the lovely things that come with that, but I'm actually feeling okay-ish now.

Hope you keep feeling better. For me, the booster only affected me for that one day. Good timing too. You'll be close to full immunity in 10 days. People usually round up to 2 weeks, but the data shows it is almost fully immune at day 10. That happens to be Thanksgiving Day.

 

[manly]

I want to get boosted but I want to do it when my son is eligible to get his shot so we are all on the same schedule. This way we can all travel during a period when all of us have peak antibodies. I'm guessing my 2 year old won't be eligible until February.

Since neither my wife nor I work in an office or participate in much of anything indoor yet, I think we should be fine. Thanksgiving seems like it will happen just before any spike in California (and historically we seem to lag the rest of the country likely due to outdoor weather lasting longer), and Christmas may be a fully outdoor gathering. At home test kits will be used by everyone prior to either.

I think you're better off getting boosted soon. Your enhanced immunity will protect your entire family.

I may be wrong, but I think this winter will be the last major wave to hit Western nations. The U.S. is a bit of a gray area, because some regions have really poor vax rates so they resemble the EU less and Eastern Europe more. My point being, you want the peak protection around these holidays rather than after community transmission has crested.

 

[JujuFish]

Hope you keep feeling better. For me, the booster only affected me for that one day. Good timing too. You'll be close to full immunity in 10 days. People usually round up to 2 weeks, but the data shows it is almost fully immune at day 10. That happens to be Thanksgiving Day.

Thanks. Yeah, that was part of the incentive for the booster. Going to be spending Thanksgiving with a couple other people, one of whom is high risk, so I figured I'd do my part.

 

[K1052]

Gov is loading up on the new Pfizer pills because *gestures broadly at millions of idiots who are not vaccinated*.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1460676220677500928

Also the FDA is meeting this week to consider, and extremely likely approve, boosters for the entire adult population.

 

[pmv]

What happened on October 6th?

Did a country make a retrospective upward-revision to its death figures, or has Worldometers suffered a glitch?



Do the other tracking sites show a similar issue? I haven't got any others bookmarked.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Just got notified there was a positive case in my building. The techs that tested positive were in the basement though and it happened on a day I was off, so not worried, plus I'm vaccinated. Think this is the first one locally within the company though.

 

[dullard]

or has Worldometers suffered a glitch?

I think they had a glitch. Most likely someone added an extra zero somewhere, such as 20000 instead of 2000. Seems like it is gone now.