NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

[BUTCH1]

Many Americans trace their roots to sharecroppers and slaves. Others owned and worked on their own farms. As recently as 150 years ago, the United States was majority agricultural. Give me a break!

"Decent working conditions" means access to water and port-o-potties so you don't dehydrate and you don't have people taking a dump in irrigation ditches. E.coli on your romaine? Ever wonder why?

Ah for crying out loud, go read Grapes of Wrath.

I've read that many years ago, ancient history. Most produce is grown on massive corporate owned farms, what was prevalent 150 years ago means squat today. Yea, I can really see millennial's sweating their ass off harvesting lettuce bending down all day doing back-breaking work. Farms tolerate the occasional E. coli issue because their labor force works cheap, doesn't complain, and can't file a workers comp case.

 

[Ichinisan]

Again: There has been a lot more. You can see much of it for yourself in the lab's own job listings leading up to the outbreak... if you can read Chinese and care enough to look.

Links...


Wuhan institute of virology, recruitment page:
http://www.whiov.ac.cn/105341/



Dates are important.



2019-11-18 posting
http://www.whiov.ac.cn/105341/201911/t20191118_5438006.html
"research direction: the unique bat innate immune mechanisms"

"Taking bat as the research object, answer the molecular mechanism that can coexist with Ebola and SARS- related coronavirus for a long time without disease, and its relationship with flight and longevity. Virology, immunology, cell biology and multiple omics are used to compare the differences between humans and other mammals." (Google Translate)



2019-11-29 posting
http://www.whiov.ac.cn/105341/201911/t20191129_5446201.html
"Research direction: 1. Research on virus epidemic and evolution law; 2. Pathogen microorganism genome and big data)"

"Infectious diseases are an important threat to human health. According to statistics from the World Health Organization, about 15 million people are killed each year . As an important pathogen of infectious diseases, viruses have a rapid mutation rate, unique inheritance and transmission patterns, and often cause large-scale outbreaks and epidemics. It is very important to clarify the origin of virus, cross-host transmission and evolution. This is the premise and basis for cutting off virus transmission, realizing effective monitoring, and guiding the development of drug therapy and vaccines. It has important scientific value and practical significance.

Computational virology, as an emerging interdisciplinary subject, has gradually become the main research method for rapid response to infectious disease prevention and control. The discipline follows the basic theory of biological evolution, comprehensively utilizes the research methods of genomics and bioinformatics, and takes viruses, hosts, and the environment as the research objects. Important theoretical basis.

In recent years, genome and bioinformatics technology has played an important role in the prevention and control of important infectious diseases such as avian influenza virus and Ebola virus. At present, many research achievements of this research group are in the domestic leading position, and are close to the forefront of international research. We hope to reduce the harm caused by infectious diseases to humans through the digital analysis of viruses." (Google Translate)



2019-12-24 posting
http://www.whiov.ac.cn/105341/201912/t20191224_5471634.html
"Proposed recruitment direction 1 : Ecological study of bat migration and virus transmission - Prospective direction 2 : bat virus cross-species infection and its pathogenicity"

"The New Virus Discipline Group focuses on the etiology of new viruses and their infection mechanisms, including bat and rodent virus discovery, early warning and transmission rules research, cross-species infection mechanism and pathogenicity of coronavirus and other important viruses transmitted by bat Research, new virus serology and molecular diagnostic technology. The subjects undertaken by the discipline group include the National Natural Science Foundation's major instrument research and development projects, key projects, general projects, the Chinese Academy of Sciences pilot project, the Chinese Academy of Sciences China-Africa Research Center project, the US NIH project, etc."


That last one basically implies that the lab made a discovery in human transmissibility.


[edit]

Long before this outbreak, the Wuhan laboratory's head researcher on bat coronavirus (Shi Zhengli / 石正丽 / "Bat woman") had already discovered that the virus could be transmitted with no intermediate host. She published three research papers about it.

http://www.bjnews.com.cn/news/2020/02/26/695325.html



Laboratory statement on the missing researcher:
http://www.whiov.ac.cn/tzgg_105342/202002/t20200216_5500201.html


Huang Yanling / Huang Yan Ling / 黄燕玲
Her name is mentioned many times in published research papers from the lab and Yanling is believed by many to be patient zero. People in China say she got infected in the lab, died of the disease, was cremated, and infected crematorium workers. I don't know where these details supposedly come from or how her name even started getting discussed, so take it all with a grain of salt. Shi Zhengli ("Bat woman," head researcher) supposedly told the government that she swears on her life that Yan Ling was not infected and is not dead. It should be easy to -prove if Yan Ling is alive, but there has been no statement or appearance by her. The CCP normally does everything possible to shut down rumors (even true ones they don't like) and normally would have forced an appearance by Yanling to shut down the rumors. The lab started removing all of Yanlng's info from their site while her name was being discussed on Chinese social media (such conversations are promptly deleted / scrubbed by Chinese censors). First they removed her picture and info for a profile page where the profiles of all other researchers remained intact (regardless of whether they still worked at the lab). Only a stub with her name remained. Now the entire site is gone, even though it was worked a couple weeks ago.

Google cache: link

The lab statement about Yanling says she left the lab in 2015 to work in other provinces and has not returned. There is a 2018 new year picture of her at the Wuhan lab with other researchers from the lab. Each person in the picture has their name captioned. I wanted to find the unmodified original image. Starting with the zoomed image that has names captioned and her name circled, I searched Google for the image:

long url

In the results, I see the same laboratory web site that was recently shut down some time in the last 2 weeks.

Google cache: link
(shows nothing. cached after info was deleted, before web site was shut down)

Also this page has a few variations of the picture: https://ameblo.jp/468854785/entry-12576246796.html

Screenshot showing the group image on the lab's site before the site stopped working:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1228703314449227776

Professor Botao Xiao (also "Xiaobo Tao") knew many researchers at the Wuhan lab. He even knew the exact number of bats that were collected for a research experiment. He published this paper in February, which was later removed:
https://web.archive.org/web/2020021...The_possible_origins_of_2019-nCoV_coronavirus

Lots of important things in the report, but here's one bit:
"According to municipal reports and the testimonies of 31 residents and 28 visitors, the bat was never a food source in the city, and no bat was traded in the market."



The China Communist Party recently started blocking any research on the origin of the new coronavirus without going through CCP officials. This is more than simply restricting information (which is typical of CCP). They are actively restricting research.

Fudan University and a few others posted the CCP directive. Western journalists inquired. They were told that the directive is real, but the directive wasn't meant to be released to the public.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/12/asia/china-coronavirus-research-restrictions-intl-hnk/index.html

"When CNN called a contact number left at the end of the notice, a staff member of the Education ministry's science and technology department confirmed they had issued the directive."

"It is not supposed to be made public -- it is an internal document," said the person, who refused to reveal his name."

"A few hours later, the Fudan University page was taken down."



More about Shi Zhengli / 石正丽 / "Bat woman" -- the head researcher on bat coronavirus and human transmissability at the Wuhan lab:
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/coro...h-is-vital-for-tests-and-vaccines/ar-BB12wLOS

 

[IndyColtsFan]

i still kick myself for not moving to silicon valley 15 years ago, i have wasted so much of my life that i could've spent working at SV companies

I had the opportunity to transfer out there 20 years ago and declined. I don't regret it one bit.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Lol you're funny.

They will continue to love the low cost labor and reduced regulations.

Wag the finger and say "Don't you do that again," along with a wink wink. If there is any scrutiny, companies like Apple will be sure to convince our current Administration.

Exactly. If any American CEO threatens to leave China, China will flash a few bucks and they'll stay - I guarantee it.

 

[Ichinisan]

Ok, here is the in depth research lab virus origination video. This video was posted on 4/1/20:

He shows how the government moved to censor websites and delete information.

Page 232 - NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

Page 232 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

forums.anandtech.com

...and it is NOT an April Fools joke. Matt publishes a video on that channel every Wednesday. He mentioned the upcoming April 1 video days early in his other videos / channels with Winston. It's not a joke or prank.

I linked the relevant pages in my previous post (November+December job listings for Wuhan Institute of Virology)

 

[DrMrLordX]

their labor force works cheap, doesn't complain, and can't file a workers comp case.

Thanks for making my point. It wouldn't be "ancient history" if the pay weren't so awful.

Also, Covid-19 will temporarily kill off a lot of immigration to the US.

 

[Kaido]

The total number of Americans who have filed initial jobless claims to around 22 million, or roughly 13.5% of the labor force, since March 14:

22 million Americans have filed for unemployment benefits in the last four weeks

As businesses remain closed during the coronavirus pandemic, an unrelenting jobs crisis continues to push Americans onto unemployment rolls.

www.cnn.com

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Thanks for making my point. It wouldn't be "ancient history" if the pay weren't so awful.

Also, Covid-19 will temporarily kill off a lot of immigration to the US.

A lot of people have had the age old media message of "Americans won't do that work" sewn into their brains - completely ignoring basic capitalism that will tell you that ANYONE will do ANYTHING if the price is appropriate.

This is what has convinced them that illegal labor and busing in immigrants to do the job is "acceptable" because otherwise it wouldn't get done (in their mind).

 

[IronWing]

Many Americans trace their roots to sharecroppers and slaves. Others owned and worked on their own farms. As recently as 150 years ago, the United States was majority agricultural. Give me a break!

"Decent working conditions" means access to water and port-o-potties so you don't dehydrate and you don't have people taking a dump in irrigation ditches. E.coli on your romaine? Ever wonder why?

Ah for crying out loud, go read Grapes of Wrath.

Yes, let's read The Grapes of Wrath.

Now farming became industry, and the owners followed Rome, although they did not know it. They imported slaves, although they did not call them slaves: Chinese, Japanese, Mexicans, Filipinos. They live on rice and beans, the business men said. They don't need much. They wouldn't know what to do with good wages. Why, look how they live. Why, look what they eat. And if they get funny—deport them.

California agriculture was built on exploitable foreign labor. When the desperate Okies showed up, they got exploited for a few years and moved on and the planters went right back to exploitable foreign labor. There never was a time when California agriculture didn't use this model. I ain't claiming it's a just model but it is the history of California agriculture.

 

[BUTCH1]

A lot of people have had the age old media message of "Americans won't do that work" sewn into their brains - completely ignoring basic capitalism that will tell you that ANYONE will do ANYTHING if the price is appropriate.

This is what has convinced them that illegal labor and busing in immigrants to do the job is "acceptable" because otherwise it wouldn't get done (in their mind).

But the price won't be "appropriate", and with hiring legit US workers employers will need to carry workers comp insurance for every single one. When the harvest is over guess what?, they will all file unemployment for which the employer will be responsible for paying a portion of. If you think these factory-farms are going to start shelling out $15-18/hr to lure Americans into working in the fields your into laughable territory.

 

[BUTCH1]

Yes, let's read The Grapes of Wrath.



California agriculture was built on exploitable foreign labor. When the desperate Okies showed up, they got exploited for a few years and moved on and the planters went right back to exploitable foreign labor. There never was a time when California agriculture didn't use this model. I ain't claiming it's a just model but it is the history of California agriculture.

Yup, the same thing happened with meat plants, they were once all unionized under amalgamated meatcutters but if you close a plant for a period of time then re-open it it's no longer considered a union facility. Then they went through Asians, Latinos, while paying garbage wages with little benefits, now the cramped workers who were not issued PPE are all getting sick, enjoy the bacon, chicken, and steak while you can.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Slight personal rant time:

Can we please stop with the concept of calling everyone "essential workers" ? Doctors and nurses aside -

I'm noticing a huge uptick in asinine people that work for the likes of grocery stores and retail places acting as-if they are gods gift to the world. I honestly hate to burst your bubble, but they (government) simply refer to you as "essential workers" to make you feel as though you're important. What it is in actuality is "easily replaced"... And I'm no better, but I'm not posting dumb things like this:

 

[BUTCH1]

Slight personal rant time:

Can we please stop with the concept of calling everyone "essential workers" ? Doctors and nurses aside -

I'm noticing a huge uptick in asinine people that work for the likes of grocery stores and retail places acting as-if they are gods gift to the world. I honestly hate to burst your bubble, but they (government) simply refer to you as "essential workers" to make you feel as though you're important. What it is in actuality is "easily replaced"... And I'm no better, but I'm not posting dumb things like this:

View attachment 19653

I've noticed they've gotten quite righteous lately, the Publix near me now has arrows in the aisle's so they are all one way, a stock clerk caught me "cheating" by going up an aisle the wrong way 10ft for an item, she went off a bit, 'sir, can't you see the traffic arrows!", I sure can honey, maybe I just don't give a fuck. I'll maintain 6ft of separation no matter how you mark anything.

 

[ultimatebob]

Slight personal rant time:

Can we please stop with the concept of calling everyone "essential workers" ? Doctors and nurses aside -

I'm noticing a huge uptick in asinine people that work for the likes of grocery stores and retail places acting as-if they are gods gift to the world. I honestly hate to burst your bubble, but they (government) simply refer to you as "essential workers" to make you feel as though you're important. What it is in actuality is "easily replaced"... And I'm no better, but I'm not posting dumb things like this:

View attachment 19653

I'd be cool with a special line for nurses and doctors, but then you would probably just have assholes dressing up in hospital scrubs to jump the line.

 

[highland145]

I've noticed they've gotten quite righteous lately, the Publix near me now has arrows in the aisle's so they are all one way, a stock clerk caught me "cheating" by going up an aisle the wrong way 10ft for an item, she went off a bit, 'sir, can't you see the traffic arrows!", I sure can honey, maybe I just don't give a fuck. I'll maintain 6ft of separation no matter how you mark anything.

Yeah, they started to get onto me when I went out the in door because I decided I'd better get a cart.

Chick-fil-a was backed up in the street at 10:45.

 

[CZroe]

But the price won't be "appropriate", and with hiring legit US workers employers will need to carry workers comp insurance for every single one. When the harvest is over guess what?, they will all file unemployment for which the employer will be responsible for paying a portion of. If you think these factory-farms are going to start shelling out $15-18/hr to lure Americans into working in the fields your into laughable territory.

Oh, market forces would balance price and wages. This is what I meant by "complicated."

Wages would have to go up, as would prices.

Demand would enevitably go down in response to price.

The amount grown and the work needed would go down in response to demand.

The unused area would likely get used for a more profitable crop that could support similar wages.

Eventually it all balances and we end up paying more, eating less, and sustaining fewer workers.

Again, it isn't as simple as "American won't do the work." Pay them enough and they will. People say the same thing about janitors but, obviously, we would still have janitors if we forced businesses to hire Americans. If they have to pay more or add it to another employee's list of duties then they will and there will be a cascade of smaller effects from increasing the cost of business. The people who want this would say "So be it. That's the true cost."

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

Oh, market forces would balance price and wages. This is what I meant by "complicated."

Wages would have to go up, as would prices.

Demand would enevitably go down in response to price.

The amount grown and the work needed would go down in response to demand.

The unused area would likely get used for a more profitable crop that could support similar wages.

Eventually it all balances and we end up paying more, eating less, and sustaining fewer workers.

Again, it isn't as simple as "American won't do the work." Pay them enough and they will. People say the same thing about janitors but, obviously, we would still have janitors if we forced businesses to hire Americans. If they have to pay more or add it to another employee's list of duties then they will and there will be a cascade of smaller effects from increasing the cost of business. The people who want this would say "So be it. That's the true cost."

On top of that, the increase in labor costs would drive up innovation to create self-picking machinery, weed machines, etc..

Thus you have things like these:

Farmers Are Taking Notice of This Robot That Monitors Crops, Pulls Weeds

According to Sebastien Boyer SM â16, todayâs farmers face a set of challenges: weeds threatening their crops are increasingly resistant to herbicides, while the safety of some of these same chemicals continues to be under question. Thatâs in addition to traditional farming challenges like...

alum.mit.edu

 

[K1052]

Cuomo extending NY closure to 5/15. Says the R naught is .9 which is good.

I expect that he needs the extra time to get a major testing regime, even though NY is actually pretty good, up and running for everyone and to create slack in the medical system. A slowly tiered reopening after that seems likely.

 

[manly]

LOL at the Xi Xinping supporters falling for China scapegoating others for the spread of Covid-19 worldwide?

Why do people keep bringing up Trump anyway? He loves the attention. Stop feeding the troll.

Well, that's a load of malarkey and you know it. Nobody is exonerating China or supporting its president in this thread. I don't believe whatever conspiracy theories their state media is spreading to its brainwashed citizens, anymore than I believe the verbal diarrhea POTUS spews at his daily pressers. The embarrassing part is that we're even comparing a corrupt, totalitarian regime to the U.S. executive branch at all.

Huh, why do people keep bringing Trump up? Because he's constantly trying to pass the blame to anyone but himself? Because his administration's actions contributed to tens of thousands of lives lost? Because there's an election in November where who you vote for is not a trivial matter? Nah, none of that is important at all. And discussing it in this thread amounts to feeding the troll? LOL, I didn't realize that Donny reads this thread.

The W.H.O. declared the novel coronavirus a public health emergency in late January. What did the Trump admin do all of February?

W.H.O., Now Trump’s Scapegoat, Warned About Coronavirus Early and Often (Published 2020)

The World Health Organization, always cautious, acted more forcefully and faster than many national governments. But President Trump has decided to cut off U.S. funding to the organization.

www.nytimes.com

 

[_Rick_]

My favorite bit with this, is that everyone was harping on China's provincial politicians in squashing rumors of some deadly disease - and then, when it hit the ski resorts in the Alps, local governments were again playing it down, so it spread far and wide across Europe.
At least it's good to know that provincial governments are made up of the same retards around the world, and they all believe that the messenger will be shot.
But hey, the ski resorts could rake in one more week of hotel reservations and lift fees!

 

[BUTCH1]

On top of that, the increase in labor costs would drive up innovation to create self-picking machinery, weed machines, etc..

Thus you have things like these:

Farmers Are Taking Notice of This Robot That Monitors Crops, Pulls Weeds

According to Sebastien Boyer SM â16, todayâs farmers face a set of challenges: weeds threatening their crops are increasingly resistant to herbicides, while the safety of some of these same chemicals continues to be under question. Thatâs in addition to traditional farming challenges like...

alum.mit.edu

There already exists a large amount of harvesting machinery, a lot of innovation already there because the savings is significant. Thing is, there are some items that still be required to be harvested manually, fruits, (some) are prone to bruising if handled manually, lettuce and greens also would get mauled by mechanical harvest.

 

[Ichinisan]

...

The W.H.O. declared the novel coronavirus a public health emergency in late January.

...

The WHO went on to complain about USA doing the most obvious / basic thing (limiting flights from China). USA announced China travel restrictions on January 31 - the next day after WHO finally declared it a "public health emergency."

The state department issued a level 4 "do not travel" advisory on the same day as the WHO declaration.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Yes, let's read The Grapes of Wrath.

You really aren't contradicting anything I've said, though. Americans showed up and did the same labor as everyone else. The United States has been exploiting cheap immigrant labor in numerous ways for years. Most of those Okies were probably descendants of cheap immigrant labor. Minimum wage laws were passed back in the 1930s largely as a response to cheap foreign labor, to try to price immigrants out of jobs. So now they just get paid under the table.

Well, that's a load of malarkey and you know it.

No, it really isn't, especially when you consider the context.

As for the POTUS, no, he probably doesn't read this thread. But you do. That's the point. He wants attention. Truth is that any American President is going to be largely irrelevant in situations such as these. He can maybe pull a few strings to get PPE or other supplies moved around a bit, but he can't unilaterally do much of anything. Even though he's trying to play powermonger now to force states to ease restrictions. Which is a joke. He won't gain any traction.

All he wants is his name on everyone's lips. Why give it to him?

The WHO went on to complain about USA doing the most obvious / basic thing (limiting flights from China). USA announced China travel restrictions on January 31 - the next day after WHO finally declared it a "public health emergency."

The state department issued a level 4 "do not travel" advisory on the same day as the WHO declaration.

Thanks. I didn't want to have to go through all that myself.

@BUTCH1

Meet the new harvesting robots that can pick 10,000 apples an hour – Matthew Griffin | Keynote Speaker & Master Futurist

6 4 WHY THIS MATTERS IN BRIEF Jobs that require precision and dexterity have long been protected against automation because...

www.fanaticalfuturist.com

It's coming. We might really need robots like this after Covid-19.

 

[CZroe]

My favorite bit with this, is that everyone was harping on China's provincial politicians in squashing rumors of some deadly disease - and then, when it hit the ski resorts in the Alps, local governments were again playing it down, so it spread far and wide across Europe.
At least it's good to know that provincial governments are made up of the same retards around the world, and they all believe that the messenger will be shot.
But hey, the ski resorts could rake in one more week of hotel reservations and lift fees!

Interesting. I haven't heard about an early ski resort outbreak getting swept under rug. Got a link?

There already exists a large amount of harvesting machinery, a lot of innovation already there because the savings is significant. Thing is, there are some items that still be required to be harvested manually, fruits, (some) are prone to bruising if handled manually, lettuce and greens also would get mauled by mechanical harvest.

...hence the motivation for further innovation when the cost of labor goes up.