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NON_POLITICAL China Coronavirus THREAD

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K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
37,322
11,791
136
He's not saying it's the drug. He's saying that's worse than the establish CFR.


Because a 1.8% fatality rate is worse than the virus is known to have. Maybe this was with a subset of higher-risk patients with a higher than 2% fatality rate but you'd expect them to make that clear before touting this as any kind of success.
Fatality rates of hospitalized cases are substantially higher and way higher for ICU (like 40-50%). Looking at a less than 2% fatality rate for patients (not all total cases) participating in trial under these circumstances is FAR different.
 
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CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,190
852
126
Yes, I meant Grapes of Wrath. It was to show to another poster here that Americans can and have engaged in subsistence-level agriculture in the past. Frankly I'm floored that anyone thinks the American people have never gotten dirt under their nails before.
Indeed. Before lawns were a thing pretty much every American with land had a garden. The entire point of a lawn was to flout your wealth by demonstrating that you didn't need your land to be productive.

 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,190
852
126
Fatality rates of hospitalized cases are substantially higher and way higher for ICU (like 40-50%). Looking at a less than 2% fatality rate for patients (not all total cases) participating in trial under these circumstances is FAR different.
Sure. To clarify, it says "severe" and many are defining severe COVID-19 as anyone showing any signs of lower respiratory system infection or pneumonia whether they needed to be hospitalized or not. IOW, it's considered severe when you get any symptoms in your lungs whether they are life-threatening or not.
 

Roger Wilco

Golden Member
Mar 20, 2017
1,188
758
136
Sure. To clarify, it says "severe" and many are defining severe COVID-19 as anyone showing any signs of lower respiratory system infection or pneumonia whether they needed to be hospitalized or not. IOW, it's considered severe when you get any symptoms in your lungs whether they are life-threatening or not.
Interesting. But even so, out of 125 patients, 113 were symptomatic. That alone shows that this may be a higher risk group.
 
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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
17,681
6,668
136
Seems like the study needs to clarify how high-risk they were? Were they all on ventilators or not?
 

thestrangebrew1

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2011
3,198
254
126
Are there stats on recoveries for those with underlying issues like diabetes?

Edit: I guess if underlying issues makes you more susceptible, you can assume that most who recovered had those issues at onset.
 

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
60,592
8,970
126
www.uovalor.com
Thought we were doing good, but we have two nursing homes now with an outbreak. Started with staff. They figure staff who work at more than one nursing home probably managed to spread it that way without knowing.

I feel that they should be paying for hotel rooms for any medical staff that don't live alone as well, that way they can isolate there instead of going home. For example with all the mines being open (I think that's ridiculous, it's not essential!) if a nurse lives with someone who works at a mine then they are basically exposing each other and can spread it further.
 

Printed Circuit Bro

Senior member
Jan 21, 2020
411
84
61
The thing is that experts say travel bans don't work, and studies show they just barely slow the spread of the virus.
I guess we shouldn't even bother trying, then, eh? Keep the flood gates open! o_O

Then we can complain about the government's not doing enough to stop this spread, like shutting down air travel! :laughing:
 
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Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
31,149
3,971
126
So you think the travel bans from China and Europe were completely useless? We couldv'e had millions of people moving into and out of the country. We couldn't had extras entering the country to flee the pandemic, bringing the disease with them as asymptomatic carriers. And I'll repeat: that was the ONLY legal tool in the President's shed. He did it too late for my tastes, and he still got slammed for it anyway (at least when banning travel from China; nobody seemed to mind much when he banned travel from Europe).
I think the argument was made that banning travel from China at the time wasn't effective because travel from Europe had not been banned. People could fly to Europe and from there to the USA. By the time travel from Europe was banned, our goose was pretty well cooked. A few days later, he added the UK. As usual, Trump was way behind the curve, several days late and $$$ short. Nothing unusual for the dotard.

In any case, trying to prevent catastrophe here by banning travel without preparing for the inevitable outbreaks here was a humongous blunder. The POTUS lives in a fantasy land, being a projection of what he imagines his base would like to see from him. What can you expect from such a man (who is in reality a thorough going politician).
 
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Nov 8, 2012
20,778
4,750
136
All schools in state of TX have been cancelled through the rest of the school year (End of May - or whatever it goes through).
 

Eno Safirey

Member
Dec 14, 2012
73
8
71
Thought we were doing good, but we have two nursing homes now with an outbreak. Started with staff. They figure staff who work at more than one nursing home probably managed to spread it that way without knowing.
My SO is on the administrative staff at a nursing home and this is what is happening at her facility.
 
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BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
19,882
1,423
126
Indeed. Before lawns were a thing pretty much every American with land had a garden. The entire point of a lawn was to flout your wealth by demonstrating that you didn't need your land to be productive.

Another sad part of all this is farmers in FL plowing tons and tons of green beans, tomato's into the ground. Turns out the majority were grown for wholesale buyers in the restaurant industry and now that market has vanished. Yet in
Texas tens of thousands line up in food banks, some camp out overnight for a good spot and they are running out.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,778
4,750
136
Another sad part of all this is farmers in FL plowing tons and tons of green beans, tomato's into the ground. Turns out the majority were grown for wholesale buyers in the restaurant industry and now that market has vanished. Yet in
Texas tens of thousands line up in food banks, some camp out overnight for a good spot and they are running out.
The food banks should be calling them up and offering logistics to pick it up.

Just because a farmer exists with tons of useful crops, doesn't mean they have the logistics to deliver it to a useful place.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
17,681
6,668
136
I think the argument was made that banning travel from China at the time wasn't effective because travel from Europe had not been banned.
There wasn't that much time between the travel bans, and a lot of people didn't want either of those travel bans at all. That wasn't the only argument being made (go look at manly, he's arguing that travel bans were useless anyway).

In any case, trying to prevent catastrophe here by banning travel without preparing for the inevitable outbreaks here was a humongous blunder.
I mean, I guess? What exactly was anyone supposed to do? The CDC has been in decline over several administrations. We completely botched Zika (and got lucky). About the only "good" disease response we've had have been against livestock diseases, and that meant slaughtering tons of livestock. Which um. Was actually very bad.

The food banks should be calling them up and offering logistics to pick it up.

Just because a farmer exists with tons of useful crops, doesn't mean they have the logistics to deliver it to a useful place.
That's a lovely thought, but I don't think the food banks have that kind of money either.

American farmers chronically overproduce. School meal programs, food stamps, and similar semi-subsidies help keep production high without tanking ag prices. You can really trace this mentality back to Thomas Jefferson who didn't want us to wind up dependent on too many foreign food sources.
 

CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,190
852
126
I think the argument was made that banning travel from China at the time wasn't effective because travel from Europe had not been banned. People could fly to Europe and from there to the USA. By the time travel from Europe was banned, our goose was pretty well cooked. A few days later, he added the UK. As usual, Trump was way behind the curve, several days late and $$$ short. Nothing unusual for the dotard.
The travel restrictions weren't about stopping flights. It covered anyone who traveled there within 14 days regardless of where they were coming from. Granted, people could always lie about where they have been and it could be hard to tell without information sharing... but not always. Look at the passport stamps.
 

Ichinisan

Lifer
Oct 9, 2002
28,298
1,230
136
There isn't info on the two fatalities. It probably wasn't the drug which has a good safety profile. Anti-virals are more useful when they are given earlier so if someone with severe disease is already progressed too far it might be of less utility for some of those patients. We still need the comparison to controls and the data from the moderate severity group too.
Two deaths seems higher than the fatality rate for people who didn't receive the treatment - if I understand it correctly.
 
Nov 8, 2012
20,778
4,750
136
lol TX is funny... Looking like trying to reopen retail stores everywhere in a week? Are they nuts?

I don't know if that includes restaurants or what....



EDIT: I'm getting word that what the governor said was nothing like KPRC is presenting... Headline of the actual article says "Allow Retail-to-go" is a hell of a lot different than simply "retail stores to open"

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