NON-religious forms of AA??

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waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
haha the anti religious bashers such as rocksteady are kinda funny.

bashing something that they do not understand (faith in something other then what we see).

I have no desire to attent a church. i think the "church" is one of the biggest hypcrital situations around. BUt religion has helped many people coup with things that would ruin there lives and gives many a reason and way to live.

is it the amazing thing some claim? heck no. but its also not the what people like rocksteady say.

either way who cares what others do? either hate religion or go. its up to you and whatever god you pray to (or none at all)
 

DangerAardvark

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2004
7,559
0
0
Originally posted by: jemcam
AA is not religious, it is spiritual, there is a huge difference.

I posted the 12 steps earlier in thread, but apparently no one has read them. Granted, you're allowed to interpret the "God" it makes reference to as a higher power/deity/spirit of your choice, but the fact remains that it's based on a cult mentality.

"If you think you are an atheist, an agnostic, a skeptic, or have any other form of intellectual pride which keeps you from accepting what is in this book, I feel sorry for you... Your Heavenly Father will never let you down!" -Dr. Bob, co-founder of AA

"If you think you are an atheist, an agnostic, a skeptic, or have any other form of intellectual pride which keeps you from accepting what is in this book, I feel sorry for you." -Alcoholics Anonymous

Different name, same bullshit: drink the Kool-Aid. And for some people, drinking the Kool-Aid may work and in fact be preferable to drinking the scotch, but let's not pretend it isn't Kool-Aid.
 

RocksteadyDotNet

Diamond Member
Jul 29, 2008
3,152
1
0
Originally posted by: waggy
haha the anti religious bashers such as rocksteady are kinda funny.

bashing something that they do not understand (faith in something other then what we see).

I have no desire to attent a church. i think the "church" is one of the biggest hypcrital situations around. BUt religion has helped many people coup with things that would ruin there lives and gives many a reason and way to live.

is it the amazing thing some claim? heck no. but its also not the what people like rocksteady say.

either way who cares what others do? either hate religion or go. its up to you and whatever god you pray to (or none at all)

I think you'll find that "anti religious bashers" is a double negative. :p
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
Originally posted by: RocksteadyDotNet
Originally posted by: waggy
haha the anti religious bashers such as rocksteady are kinda funny.

bashing something that they do not understand (faith in something other then what we see).

I have no desire to attent a church. i think the "church" is one of the biggest hypcrital situations around. BUt religion has helped many people coup with things that would ruin there lives and gives many a reason and way to live.

is it the amazing thing some claim? heck no. but its also not the what people like rocksteady say.

either way who cares what others do? either hate religion or go. its up to you and whatever god you pray to (or none at all)

I think you'll find that "anti religious bashers" is a double negative. :p

i also found its far to early to be posting without coffee!
 

RocksteadyDotNet

Diamond Member
Jul 29, 2008
3,152
1
0
Originally posted by: waggy
Originally posted by: RocksteadyDotNet
Originally posted by: waggy
haha the anti religious bashers such as rocksteady are kinda funny.

bashing something that they do not understand (faith in something other then what we see).

I have no desire to attent a church. i think the "church" is one of the biggest hypcrital situations around. BUt religion has helped many people coup with things that would ruin there lives and gives many a reason and way to live.

is it the amazing thing some claim? heck no. but its also not the what people like rocksteady say.

either way who cares what others do? either hate religion or go. its up to you and whatever god you pray to (or none at all)

I think you'll find that "anti religious bashers" is a double negative. :p

i also found its far to early to be posting without coffee!

Haha. No worries mate.

It's night here and i've had a few drinks, so probably wont be posting top notch either. :)

 

aldamon

Diamond Member
Aug 2, 2000
3,280
0
76
Originally posted by: JohnCU
well he may be referring to other addictions also.. like the founder of AA became a sex addict after he stopped drinking.

Interesting.

 

JohnCU

Banned
Dec 9, 2000
16,528
4
0
Originally posted by: aldamon
Originally posted by: JohnCU
well he may be referring to other addictions also.. like the founder of AA became a sex addict after he stopped drinking.

Interesting.

what's even more interesting is the amount of smoking/coffee drinking you see at an AA meeting (from what i hear - i refuse to go to one). they are all about replacing addictions which is not a bad thing, per se, but the fact is you need to address it from a healthy perspective. the objective here is not to get sober, it's to get healthy and a side effect of being healthy is sobriety.

they even encourage people to load up on sugar to reduce cravings, like getting up in the middle of the night to eat ice cream and that's such BS because the sugar acts on the some of the same receptors that alcohol does and in the long run just results in the cravings coming back.
 

DomS

Banned
Jul 15, 2008
1,678
0
0
well basically one side is saying that AA IS religious because it mentions a higher being. The other side is saying that while it mentions a higher power, this can be anything you want, and the meetings aren't centered around forcing God down anyone's throat. In the end I don't think it really matters either way, if the program helps people get better.

(and do the person who said that either cold turkey or using AA has a 5% success rate....there are no published statistics for AA...the 2nd A stands for anonymous)
 

JohnCU

Banned
Dec 9, 2000
16,528
4
0
Originally posted by: DomS
well basically one side is saying that AA IS religious because it mentions a higher being. The other side is saying that while it mentions a higher power, this can be anything you want, and the meetings aren't centered around forcing God down anyone's throat. In the end I don't think it really matters either way, if the program helps people get better.

(and do the person who said that either cold turkey or using AA has a 5% success rate....there are no published statistics for AA...the 2nd A stands for anonymous)

haha one lady told me my higher power could be a door knob.

but from what i know, the most important thing about AA is the supoprt system you get, you know, like a sponsor, someone to relate/talk to.

it was pretty funny, one of the psychologists i saw said he didn't think i could get what he could teach me for free from a church down the road but that AA was good from a support standpoint.
 

DangerAardvark

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2004
7,559
0
0
Originally posted by: rudeguy
Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
BTW, AA is no longer court mandated because of its religious nature. But it's not only religious, it's a cult which formed in the 30's as an offshoot of another cult. One might also note that nowhere in the 12-step does it mention to STOP FUCKING DRINKING.

Ummm.....

AA is still court ordered in many states. There is a movement by bother proabtionees and AA's to stop this practice. The court system just has to catch on.

Please tell me how AA is a cult? The Oxford Group did start getting kind of out there, that's why AA split from them.

And nope, not a single place in the steps does it mention stopping drinking. AA teaches you how not to take the first drink.

You're right, the Supreme Court has just refused to hear appeals of rulings in favor of plaintiffs who sued over AA being religious in nature.

AA did split from the Oxford Group. But they didn't do it wholly voluntarily; he got kicked out for spending all his time with lushes. In fact, the 12 steps are based on the core philosophy of the Oxford Group: "giving in to God, listening to God's direction, checking guidance, making restitution, and sharing for witness". The Oxford group was indeed way out there, and it didn't help that the founder of the group had a huge man-crush on Hitler.

As for your third point, are you suggesting AA as a pre-emptive measure?
 

silverpig

Lifer
Jul 29, 2001
27,703
11
81
Originally posted by: jemcam
Originally posted by: silverpig
Apparently NA is accepting of alcoholics and they're not as big on the whole God thing as AA is... That's just what I've heard.


Sorry, but you're wrong. NA and CA are almost carbon copies of AA.

From what I've heard the people in the program are more forgiving about what you call a "higher power". The stories I've heard say that the AA people are pretty stuck on that higher power being the christian God, whereas the NA people are more cool with it being Santa Claus, or Ganesh or whatever.

Maybe it was just limited to the one or two groups that the people I talked to were in...
 

QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
22,553
834
126
Originally posted by: Dumac
Originally posted by: QueBert
AA is religious a bunch of the 12 steps clearly talks about praying to GOD, and talk about God. People who hate Religion on here - that's your choice. But AA helps a lot of people and a lot of them attribute it to GOD. I don't give 2 shits why a person decided to stop drinking, but if they think God helped more power to them. How can you belittle Religion when it clearly helps so many people?

It's simply replacing one addiction with another. Whether one addiction is better than the other is up for debate, however.

Up to debate to whome Anti-Religion people? If you drink to the extreme you're going to die, and you find God. Only a moron would say an addiction to Religion is anywhere near as bad. It's only up to debate by people like RocksteadyDotNet who would probably say smoking crack is no worse than being a believer in God.
 

Turin39789

Lifer
Nov 21, 2000
12,218
8
81
Originally posted by: DomS
well basically one side is saying that AA IS religious because it mentions a higher being. The other side is saying that while it mentions a higher power, this can be anything you want, and the meetings aren't centered around forcing God down anyone's throat. In the end I don't think it really matters either way, if the program helps people get better.

(and do the person who said that either cold turkey or using AA has a 5% success rate....there are no published statistics for AA...the 2nd A stands for anonymous)

AA is/was religous for the most part, it's gotten PC in respect to calling it a "higher power" rather than god, but many groups will still be heavily religious. The key is to be ready to change and having a support group that will keep you on track, unfortunately most of the support structure in the form of a 12 step progam that exists is heavily religous / pushes religion. It's possible to do AA non-religiously, but unless you find a separate similar org specifically setup as non-religous, it's just not how the system is run teh vast majority of the time.
 

TwiceOver

Lifer
Dec 20, 2002
13,544
44
91
Originally posted by: rudeguy
Originally posted by: RocksteadyDotNet
Originally posted by: spidey07
Have you ever considered that his problem is a result of a lack of faith?

If that's not a joke you're a freakin idiot.

you might want to do some research into 12 step programs before you speak.


AA is not religious, its spiritual. There is a huge difference.

Exactly. In AA your "Higher Power" can really be anything/anyone you want it to be.

 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
Originally posted by: SlitheryDee
Originally posted by: evident
aa is religious???

My mom is a social worker and pretty much all the (government funded) addiction recovery programs she's a part of are faith based. Her nonsense about how God was the only way to clean living pissed me off so much I quit drinking to prove her wrong (along with the other obvious benefits). Now the question is did I really prove her wrong or did I prove her right?

lol damn, that's some food for thought...
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,515
16,238
146
Originally posted by: Oceandevi
A true Darwinist would not worry about this drunk.

A "true Darwinist" would realize evolution has nothing to do with addiction... that most addicts will die long after they have already reproduced. Especially alcoholics.

A "true Darwinist" would also realize that man is communal and would not have evolved where he is today without the support of his friends and family. Archaeologists have found evidence of the weak, sick and maimed being cared for as far back as human fossil records go.
 

DangerAardvark

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2004
7,559
0
0
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Oceandevi
A true Darwinist would not worry about this drunk.

A "true Darwinist" would realize evolution has nothing to do with addiction... that most addicts will die long after they have already reproduced. Especially alcoholics.

A "true Darwinist" would also realize that man is communal and would not have evolved where he is today without the support of his friends and family. Archaeologists have found evidence of the weak, sick and maimed being cared for as far back as human fossil records go.

Moreover, Evolution has nothing whatsoever to say about how someone should act or think. Evolutionary theory is about how thing are, not how they should be.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
56,515
16,238
146
Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
Originally posted by: Amused
Originally posted by: Oceandevi
A true Darwinist would not worry about this drunk.

A "true Darwinist" would realize evolution has nothing to do with addiction... that most addicts will die long after they have already reproduced. Especially alcoholics.

A "true Darwinist" would also realize that man is communal and would not have evolved where he is today without the support of his friends and family. Archaeologists have found evidence of the weak, sick and maimed being cared for as far back as human fossil records go.

Moreover, Evolution has nothing whatsoever to say about how someone should act or think. Evolutionary theory is about how thing are, not how they should be.

Well said.