NON-religious forms of AA??

[RocksteadyDotNet]

Originally posted by: rudeguy

Originally posted by: RocksteadyDotNet

Originally posted by: rudeguy

Originally posted by: RocksteadyDotNet

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: RocksteadyDotNet

Originally posted by: spidey07
Have you ever considered that his problem is a result of a lack of faith?

If that's not a joke you're a freakin idiot.

It's not a joke. It's basic psychology.

So if people belive fictional stories written by idiots who lived 2000 years ago, it will help them avoid alcoholism?

Or do you mean if they beleive in imaginary people it will help them?

Or do you mean if they are such weak minded they believe religious rubbish it will help them not be an addict?

People like you make me sick.

no one mentioned religion.

you should really do some research before you speak. What happens is you admit that you are powerless over your addiction and that you need help from a higher power. Then the real miracles happen

Err, the OP mentioned religion.

And there is no higher power, so instead of wasting the guys time trying to get help from an imaginary being, maybe they should offer him some real help.

like what kind of real help?

Naltrexone.

 

[RESmonkey]

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: RocksteadyDotNet

Originally posted by: spidey07
Have you ever considered that his problem is a result of a lack of faith?

If that's not a joke you're a freakin idiot.

It's not a joke. It's basic psychology.

Yeah, but religion and spirituality is bullshit, and is a good tool to sway the weak minded.

Swaying it away from booze may be good, but YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG! 🙂

 

[rudeguy]

Originally posted by: SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: rudeguy

Originally posted by: RocksteadyDotNet

Originally posted by: rudeguy

Originally posted by: RocksteadyDotNet

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: RocksteadyDotNet

Originally posted by: spidey07
Have you ever considered that his problem is a result of a lack of faith?

If that's not a joke you're a freakin idiot.

It's not a joke. It's basic psychology.

So if people belive fictional stories written by idiots who lived 2000 years ago, it will help them avoid alcoholism?

Or do you mean if they beleive in imaginary people it will help them?

Or do you mean if they are such weak minded they believe religious rubbish it will help them not be an addict?

People like you make me sick.

no one mentioned religion.

you should really do some research before you speak. What happens is you admit that you are powerless over your addiction and that you need help from a higher power. Then the real miracles happen

Err, the OP mentioned religion.

And there is no higher power, so instead of wasting the guys time trying to get help from an imaginary being, maybe they should offer him some real help.

like what kind of real help?

Any help that relies on religion or the perceived shunting of a person's problems onto a mystical force which then magically imparts the beleaguered addict with self control is a glorified placebo effect. Real help would perhaps have something to do with showing a person the REAL effects of their addiction on their body, mind, and loved ones. Perhaps showing them that there are real wonders in the real world worth seeing and comprehending with a sober mind would do something. That's what did it for me.

once again...AA does not rely on religion.

Without going into too much detail, I can tell you that AA does do exactly what you said real help would be for you. What it also does is teach you to live sober. Even the most progressed drunk can quit drinking...the problem is they will start drinking again.

 

[miketheidiot]

lol religion, truly premier troll bait

lol spidey07, truly a great troll

 

[IGBT]

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
Maybe if the guy was deeply religious and stopped caring as he slipped deeper into alcoholism... then maybe a religious program like AA could help.

If he was never that religious in the first place, what would it do other than frustrate and confuse him? Tell him that he has to live a religious life from now on because it's the only way to keep from slipping back into a pit of despair? Teach him that if he doesn't turn himself into a religious person that he's destined to be a failure in life?

Thing is, religion and faith can help some people. But the people it helps are the ones who are receptive to it anyway. There are many people who are not at all receptive to religious teachings, and if this guy is like that, then AA trying to get him to replace drinking with Jesus isn't going to help him one bit. It might hurt him in fact.

..something Ive mentioned to my hell bent boozer friends and relatives, that at least gave them pause, "if your going to continue with your addiction atleast make your funeral arraignments now so not to burden your family". In a few cases that advisory was enough to get them to see a doctor for an evaluation. In one case he went to see the doctor only to find out his liver was shot and had months to live. Alcoholism is a serious problem and is largely understated in it's health consequences untill it's too late.

 

[skyking]

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark
1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol?that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His Will for us and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

Info on AA
Secular alternative.
I can't comment on its effectiveness, but it's a good source of information if nothing else.

Thanks for that second link.

 

[AstroManLuca]

Originally posted by: IGBT

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
Maybe if the guy was deeply religious and stopped caring as he slipped deeper into alcoholism... then maybe a religious program like AA could help.

If he was never that religious in the first place, what would it do other than frustrate and confuse him? Tell him that he has to live a religious life from now on because it's the only way to keep from slipping back into a pit of despair? Teach him that if he doesn't turn himself into a religious person that he's destined to be a failure in life?

Thing is, religion and faith can help some people. But the people it helps are the ones who are receptive to it anyway. There are many people who are not at all receptive to religious teachings, and if this guy is like that, then AA trying to get him to replace drinking with Jesus isn't going to help him one bit. It might hurt him in fact.

..something Ive mentioned to my hell bent boozer friends and relatives, that at least gave them pause, "if your going to continue with your addiction atleast make your funeral arraignments now so not to burden your family". In a few cases that advisory was enough to get them to see a doctor for an evaluation. In one case he went to see the doctor only to find out his liver was shot and had months to live. Alcoholism is a serious problem and is largely understated in it's health consequences untill it's too late.

That's a sobering (whoops!) thought and one that should give anyone reason to at least think about what they're doing to themselves... but what does it have to do with my post?

 

[sixone]

I have a friend who was looking for an alternative to AA. He found http://www.smartrecovery.org/, and it's really been working great for him.

It's a completely different approach, and attacks the mental habits that lead to relapses and other self-destructive behaviors.

 

[nakedfrog]

Originally posted by: rudeguy

Originally posted by: RocksteadyDotNet

Originally posted by: spidey07
Have you ever considered that his problem is a result of a lack of faith?

If that's not a joke you're a freakin idiot.

you might want to do some research into 12 step programs before you speak.


AA is not religious, its spiritual. There is a huge difference.

Sort of, but I know that many AA chapters recite the Lord's Prayer, which definitely brings in religion.

 

[rudeguy]

Originally posted by: IGBT

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
Maybe if the guy was deeply religious and stopped caring as he slipped deeper into alcoholism... then maybe a religious program like AA could help.

If he was never that religious in the first place, what would it do other than frustrate and confuse him? Tell him that he has to live a religious life from now on because it's the only way to keep from slipping back into a pit of despair? Teach him that if he doesn't turn himself into a religious person that he's destined to be a failure in life?

Thing is, religion and faith can help some people. But the people it helps are the ones who are receptive to it anyway. There are many people who are not at all receptive to religious teachings, and if this guy is like that, then AA trying to get him to replace drinking with Jesus isn't going to help him one bit. It might hurt him in fact.

..something Ive mentioned to my hell bent boozer friends and relatives, that at least gave them pause, "if your going to continue with your addiction atleast make your funeral arraignments now so not to burden your family". In a few cases that advisory was enough to get them to see a doctor for an evaluation. In one case he went to see the doctor only to find out his liver was shot and had months to live. Alcoholism is a serious problem and is largely understated in it's health consequences untill it's too late.

ok...let me just quit beating around the bush


I started drinking when I was 15. I took my first drink knowing that I come from a family of alcoholics and that if I took one drink I could become an alcoholic. Well that's pretty much what happened. I was off and running right from the start.

I drank to get drunk every time I drank. I couldn't tell you what its like to only drink 1 or 2 drinks. I spent 14 years of my life getting wasted pretty much every night. I lost jobs, friends, cars, apartments...and I never thought that me drinking had anything to do with it. Then this past January I got my third DUI. A generous cop and a loophole kept me out of jail.

I was ordered to go to AA as part of my probation.

I haven't had a drink since March 1st of this year. I have worked the steps and my life is changed in every way possible. I no longer have the urge to drink.

I can't go into details about what actually goes on in meetings...but its not a church. I still don't know how to feel about religion. I do trust God and have turned my life and my will over to Him. There is a big difference between God and religion. My Higher Power can be whatever I chose. There are no restrictions there. Hell one of the guys that helped write the steps was an atheist.

I now know how to handle situations that in the past I could only deal with by drinking. I also know that one drink for me will mean a thousand. That's not being dramatic, its being honest.

Alcoholism kills so many people. It ruins so many lives. Its a brutal disease. I am so grateful for every day that I have a reprieve from the desire to drink.

 

[IGBT]

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca

Originally posted by: IGBT

Originally posted by: AstroManLuca
Maybe if the guy was deeply religious and stopped caring as he slipped deeper into alcoholism... then maybe a religious program like AA could help.

If he was never that religious in the first place, what would it do other than frustrate and confuse him? Tell him that he has to live a religious life from now on because it's the only way to keep from slipping back into a pit of despair? Teach him that if he doesn't turn himself into a religious person that he's destined to be a failure in life?

Thing is, religion and faith can help some people. But the people it helps are the ones who are receptive to it anyway. There are many people who are not at all receptive to religious teachings, and if this guy is like that, then AA trying to get him to replace drinking with Jesus isn't going to help him one bit. It might hurt him in fact.

..something Ive mentioned to my hell bent boozer friends and relatives, that at least gave them pause, "if your going to continue with your addiction atleast make your funeral arraignments now so not to burden your family". In a few cases that advisory was enough to get them to see a doctor for an evaluation. In one case he went to see the doctor only to find out his liver was shot and had months to live. Alcoholism is a serious problem and is largely understated in it's health consequences untill it's too late.

That's a sobering (whoops!) thought and one that should give anyone reason to at least think about what they're doing to themselves... but what does it have to do with my post?

..a mystery wrapped in an enigma. you'll have to ask the lord.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Originally posted by: rudeguy

once again...AA does not rely on religion.

Without going into too much detail, I can tell you that AA does do exactly what you said real help would be for you. What it also does is teach you to live sober. Even the most progressed drunk can quit drinking...the problem is they will start drinking again.

Oh yes it does. You're right in saying it touches on the other things as well, but religion plays a very central role. I've seen the materials that are handed out in AA meetings. They're full of prayers asking God for strength in hard times. Little lists with a sort WWJD theme are among them as well. Then there's the appealing to a spiritual power. The materials are careful to say that this spiritual power (which they will refer to as "God") is merely the person's conception of any higher power than themselves. This is in there purely to make the basic tenets of AA palatable to people of various religions. The repugnant part of this is the idea that alcohol, a mere physical chemical that works a purely physical reaction in the human body to produce its effect, could require a spiritual power to defeat. The idea is that the effects wrought by this spiritual power are more powerful than the physical effects of the alcohol. The reason I find this so distasteful is that I believe there is no such thing as spiritual power of any sort, therefore any benefits garnered by this method are nothing but the person fooling themselves. This sort of dishonesty to oneself is unacceptable as a permanent cure for any malady. To me the ends could never justify the means.

 

[Dumac]

I don't need religion to keep myself from abusing drugs, but that's just me.

 

[SlitheryDee]

Originally posted by: Dumac
I don't need religion to keep myself from abusing drugs, but that's just me.

To be fair, it's easy to say stuff like that when you've never abused drugs before. People who are really deep in their addictions probably need SOME sort of help. I'm just not a fan of the spiritual/religious angle.

 

[bctbct]

Maybe your friend is just looking for reason not to work a program.

I have been sober 20+ years and went to AA religiously (hehe) 2-3 times a week for about 10 years.

You dont even have to believe there is a God to attend AA and benefit from the 12 steps.

Best of luck to you rudeguy, believe me it does get easier as time goes on.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: rudeguy

Originally posted by: RocksteadyDotNet

Originally posted by: spidey07

Originally posted by: RocksteadyDotNet

Originally posted by: spidey07
Have you ever considered that his problem is a result of a lack of faith?

If that's not a joke you're a freakin idiot.

It's not a joke. It's basic psychology.

So if people belive fictional stories written by idiots who lived 2000 years ago, it will help them avoid alcoholism?

Or do you mean if they beleive in imaginary people it will help them?

Or do you mean if they are such weak minded they believe religious rubbish it will help them not be an addict?

People like you make me sick.

no one mentioned religion.

you should really do some research before you speak. What happens is you admit that you are powerless over your addiction and that you need help from a higher power. Then the real miracles happen

Not everybody's into the spirituality BS, either.

 

[silverpig]

Apparently NA is accepting of alcoholics and they're not as big on the whole God thing as AA is... That's just what I've heard.

 

[rudeguy]

Originally posted by: bctbct
Maybe your friend is just looking for reason not to work a program.

I have been sober 20+ years and went to AA religiously (hehe) 2-3 times a week for about 10 years.

You dont even have to believe there is a God to attend AA and benefit from the 12 steps.

Best of luck to you rudeguy, believe me it does get easier as time goes on.

Thanks bro


If any of you out there want to read about how truly powerless us drunks are over alcohol, read a few of the stories here
The stories are towards the bottom, after the first 164 pages.

 

[Shadow Conception]

'the hell, because of ONE post questioning faith in the first page of the thread, this has turned into a war of beliefs.

I say let him do whatever. If it takes JUST religion to pull one out of harm, then so be it. I'd rather have one believe in Santa Claus and be happy rather than one not believing in Santa Claus and drinking himself to death.

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

Originally posted by: Shadow Conception
'the hell, because of ONE post questioning faith in the first page of the thread, this has turned into a war of beliefs.

I say let him do whatever. If it takes JUST religion to pull one out of harm, then so be it. I'd rather have one believe in Santa Claus and be happy rather than one not believing in Santa Claus and drinking himself to death.

Yeah, but then you need to go to RA meetings to get religion out of your life and return to been a normal, rational person.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Rubycon
Here's a religion free DVD player. :Q

:laugh:

 

[QueBert]

AA is religious a bunch of the 12 steps clearly talks about praying to GOD, and talk about God. People who hate Religion on here - that's your choice. But AA helps a lot of people and a lot of them attribute it to GOD. I don't give 2 shits why a person decided to stop drinking, but if they think God helped more power to them. How can you belittle Religion when it clearly helps so many people?

 

[RocksteadyDotNet]

Originally posted by: QueBert
AA is religious a bunch of the 12 steps clearly talks about praying to GOD, and talk about God. People who hate Religion on here - that's your choice. But AA helps a lot of people and a lot of them attribute it to GOD. I don't give 2 shits why a person decided to stop drinking, but if they think God helped more power to them. How can you belittle Religion when it clearly helps so many people?

Because it's machiavellian.

The end does NOT justifiy the means.

If they say that meth helped them quit drinking it's not a good outcome is it?

Just because religion helped them, doesn't mean it was the right road for them to take.

Vunerable people like alcoholics should not be brainwashed into believing in lies.

It's like the church is preying on these people just to get more bums in seats on sunday.

Editted for spellin.

 

[QueBert]

Originally posted by: RocksteadyDotNet

Originally posted by: QueBert
AA is religious a bunch of the 12 steps clearly talks about praying to GOD, and talk about God. People who hate Religion on here - that's your choice. But AA helps a lot of people and a lot of them attribute it to GOD. I don't give 2 shits why a person decided to stop drinking, but if they think God helped more power to them. How can you belittle Religion when it clearly helps so many people?

Because it's machiavellian.

The end does NOT justifiy the means.

If they say that meth helped them quit drinking it's not a good outcome is it?

Just because religion helped them, doesn't mean it was the right road for them to take.

Vunerable people like alcoholics should not be brainwashed into believing in lies.

It's like the church is preying on these people just to get more bums in seats on sunday.

Editted for spellin.

I disagree, even if you think it's due to brainwashing there are MILLIONS of people who have stopped drinking due to Religious influence, there is no possible way that can be bad. Your line about Meth helping them stop drinking is retarded.

if religion helped them then it had to be the right road because it saved their live. That is why they call it "being saved" because most were on a road to the grave.

Your close mindedness is sad, you don't like Religion? Fine, that's your choice, but for you to shit on people who's lives have been enriched endlessly from it is fucking dumb.

and no I'm not Religious but I can at least understand and appreciate how it works for a lot of people.

 

[AstroManLuca]

In my experience, whenever I talk to one of those "born again" types, I always get a really creepy feeling from them. Almost like they're no longer human, but more like robots or dolls. It's like they've been lobotomized by God.

Maybe better than the alternative (still drinking, possibly dead, maybe even killing innocent people in the process), but it creeps me out. Just because a lot of people have gone through AA and have used religion to get over their problems doesn't mean religion is the only way to beat alcoholism. I'd even go so far as to argue that the main reason so many people have used religion to get over their problems is because AA is a really big, popular organization, and people don't realize it's religious when they sign up.