No Fermi benchmarks / Price & TDP revealed

[shaynoa]

nvidia is going on the jerry springer show and evga is going to tell nvidia it's been having an affair with ati because nvidia no longer perform ,nvidia has walked off the stage saying ,,you do no me , you don't no me

 

[Skurge]

You don't cut corners when spending $1700 on a PC. At $1700, you're adding corners and shelves and gold plated bezels but that's not the point I'm trying to make. The point I'm trying to make is that your original statement and intelligence is under question when you say "$1700" and "400w PSU" in reference to the same PC.

Look at my sig,
4870 - $340
Phenom x3 - $206
CM-690 - $137
4GB DDR3 - $179
M4A77TD - Pro $180
460W Psu - $85 (550w was $158)
Monitor - $303
DVD-RW - $55
Peripherals - $201
Total $1,686

My budget was $1700, couldnt go any higher. see if you can make better use of that than i did with those prices.
I know I'm really off topic, but this guy is really rubbing me the wrong way. How bout you respond to my argument on the topic of Fermi's power consumption? For me and I'm sure many other ENTHUSIASTS fermi is out of the question as an upgrade when cypress most likely performs the same. That is one example of its high TDP being a disadvantage.

On the topic of who is and isn't an enthusiast. does your PSU need to be 700w or higer to be considered one? Does your graphics have to have at least 2GB of ram to be considered an enthusiast? Sometimes you can't always afford the best, so you get the best you CAN afford.

 

[vss1980]

You don't cut corners when spending $1700 on a PC. At $1700, you're adding corners and shelves and gold plated bezels but that's not the point I'm trying to make. The point I'm trying to make is that your original statement and intelligence is under question when you say "$1700" and "400w PSU" in reference to the same PC.

A little bit off topic, but with current SSD prices that's not as insane a figure as it sounds if you really wanted to buy one or two.

 

[ZimZum]

That's a good thing.
Higher prices for equal or less performance is awesome, haven't you read the posts in this thread? At least half the people think it's good that prices are going up.

Not only that but apparently loud, hot and power hungry are good things. Who knew?

 

[shaynoa]

you can only buy what you can afford ,that's called living within your means,step outside your means and you will owe somebody else money ,this is what gets most people into trouble through life ,and it is very good that Skurge has done the wise thing

 

[Havoc Ebonlore]

And your point? Were you under some illusion these cards were going to be 30% faster or something?

Considering how long they've been delayed and the hype NV created, I think it's fair to say yes. Silly me though, so let's wait for that mythical driver update.

 

[ronnn]

You don't cut corners when spending $1700 on a PC. At $1700, you're adding corners and shelves and gold plated bezels but that's not the point I'm trying to make. The point I'm trying to make is that your original statement and intelligence is under question when you say "$1700" and "400w PSU" in reference to the same PC.

We all know that a 880w ps would be very inefficient for most tasks. A 400watter is more efficient and that saves electricity at all times the computer is running. Using less power is just the right thing to do.

no i don't always do the right thing.

 

[ronnn]

This small delay must be a driver issue or something else small. Reviewers likely have been reporting problems. Maybe the turn off fan and fry bug has spread.

 

[BFG10K]

The TDP doesn’t concern me that much, as long as the cooler isn’t loud. If it’s a 5800 Ultra dust-buster then we have a problem.

Also those jutting heatpipes will probably enjoy a side fan on the case. I might install one of my Scythe 120 mm fans onto my Antec 902.

 

[evolucion8]

Look at my sig,

4870 - $340 <<When did you paid that much? I hope it was at launch, because in ebay you could find it much cheaper today.
Phenom x3 - $206 << The same goes here
CM-690 - $137
4GB DDR3 - $179 <<Jumm, expensive but not too expensive,
M4A77TD - Pro $180 <<Too expensive
460W Psu - $85 (550w was $158)
Monitor - $303 <<I hope its P-MVA and not TN
DVD-RW - $55 <<normal
Peripherals - $201 <<I hope its a Logitech gaming keyboard/mouse
Total $1,686

Can you tell me when did you bought those stuff? Because if it was now in a store near your town or something like that, they just ripped your heart in half and stuffed their faces in like a watermelon. In ebay, you can find everything that you bought in half of the price.

Nearly every computer store near my house, it still selling Pentium 4's @ 3.0GHz at $200 USD!!! And powerful GeForce FX 5500 at $90.00!!

 

[RussianSensation]

Evo, those sound like Canadian prices with taxes in, 18 or so months ago. :awe:

 

[ZimZum]

Can you tell me when did you bought those stuff? Because if it was now in a store near your town or something like that, they just ripped your heart in half and stuffed their faces in like a watermelon. In ebay, you can find everything that you bought in half of the price.

He mentioned several times that he doesnt live in the U.S. Not everyone pays the same prices we do.

 

[dzoner]

That is what it says... Though I don't see the source on that. We will see. I always figured there would be a 512 shader part.. but rumours of late were that the first ones would be 480... shrug.

Depends on what it took to beat the 5870. If it took a 512 shader part at a 295 TDP, then that's the only option Nvidia had, and apparently were lucky at that they could beat the 5870 at all. The option Nvidia DIDN'T have is releasing a Halo GTX 480 that under-performed the 5870.

It also means, since they HAD to go with the 512 shader part to beat the 5870, there will, essentially, be no GTX480 cards available at retail as viable 512 shader parts were reportedly EXTREMELY scarce.

 

[tviceman]

We all know that a 880w ps would be very inefficient for most tasks. A 400watter is more efficient and that saves electricity at all times the computer is running. Using less power is just the right thing to do.

no i don't always do the right thing.

Are you being serious or kidding around? ....Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but...

I'm 99.9&#37; sure an 880w power supply does not draw 880w at all times - all PSU's scale up their power draw as power consumption increases. And, in fact, an 880w PSU will in most cases be way more effecient than a 440w power supply when drawing any amount of power the 440w can handle.

 

[tviceman]

On the topic of who is and isn't an enthusiast. does your PSU need to be 700w or higer to be considered one? Does your graphics have to have at least 2GB of ram to be considered an enthusiast? Sometimes you can't always afford the best, so you get the best you CAN afford.

You paid some crazy high prices compared to what I'm used to shopping around at. But you're right about what an enthusiast is - which is someone who has a hobby and gets into it and really enjoys it. So yeah, from that point of view it really has nothing to do with how much ram or how expensive your video card is.

The hd5800 series best for you, no doubt about it. In fact, I'm guessing that not only will you be unable to run Fermi, but you're also going to have a hard time with ATI's next gen architecture *IF*, as heavily rumored and nearly verified through logical reasoning, AMD is still on 40nm process. (Not saying 6x00 series will be approaching Fermi's power consumption craziness, just saying that a next gen architecture on the same process will have to be bigger and more power hungry to produce better performance.)

 

[ronnn]

Are you being serious or kidding around? ....Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but...

I'm 99.9% sure an 880w power supply does not draw 880w at all times - all PSU's scale up their power draw as power consumption increases. And, in fact, an 880w PSU will in most cases be way more effecient than a 440w power supply when drawing any amount of power the 440w can handle.

I could be wrong, but in the ps forum, I was told that a 400watt ps running 200 watts was much more efficient than a 800 watt ps running 200watts. And my own reading seemed to agree with that and the difference can be quite a bit.

 

[Headfoot]

$260 for the HD5850 at launch, 6 months later NV release something 5~10% faster and 30+% more expensive and consuming more power.
$380 for the HD5870 at launch,

This is misleading to the point of being an outright lie.

No shit they launched for way less. But who cares??? Can you buy an HD 5850 for $260 now? If so please show me where, I'd like to pick one up for that kind of money.

Here's the deal. 5870 performance for $50 less. Thats a good price. Hopefully AMD drops prices and starts a price war.

 

[badb0y]

This is misleading to the point of being an outright lie.

No shit they launched for way less. But who cares??? Can you buy an HD 5850 for $260 now? If so please show me where, I'd like to pick one up for that kind of money.

Here's the deal. 5870 performance for $50 less. Thats a good price. Hopefully AMD drops prices and starts a price war.

The MSRP on the 5870 was $379 and the 5850 was $259, we know how well that turned out :\

I think you might be able to get those prices within the first hour of release, after that it's gone.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

It's really funny how I used to hear people bashing Microsoft because their stuff never worked or it never worked properly or it was difficult to use...and now, in the light of the ABSOLUTELY EMBARRASSING FIASCO that NVidia have made the Fermi launch, I can't help but smile. Good God, if any other company in any other sector had made such a complete and utter cock-up of a product launch, their names would have been forgotten by the end of the year. That's why companies avoided this sort of total fuckfest like the plague. Because you're just not supposed to come back from this sort of thing. Being 6+ months delayed in getting product out to customers in an industry where product cycles are only 6 months long, having an NDA that won't lift until 3 days after the official launch for customers who crave hard numbers and comparisons, all this embarrassing PR maneuvering and damage control, deception, even outright lying, FOR FUCK'S SAKE!

[deep breaths]

To be frank, I don't like NVidia. And after this, I think I'll like them even less. But in all honesty what they are doing makes me cringe. Because it sets up such a bad image, and they are digging themselves into such a deep hole, I feel bad for them. Even though I hate their guts (I'll admit, at heart I'm really just a big softie). And it gives the whole hardware industry a bad reputation.

Depends on what it took to beat the 5870. If it took a 512 shader part at a 295 TDP, then that's the only option Nvidia had, and apparently were lucky at that they could beat the 5870 at all. The option Nvidia DIDN'T have is releasing a Halo GTX 480 that under-performed the 5870.

It also means, since they HAD to go with the 512 shader part to beat the 5870, there will, essentially, be no GTX480 cards available at retail as viable 512 shader parts were reportedly EXTREMELY scarce.

I think they should take a leaf from AMD's book. In particular, the CPU section. I mean, just look at it. Intel has AMD all covered up in terms of performance, both in consumer and server markets. Intel's PPW is so high compared to AMD's you almost have to crane your neck to see it. But what does AMD do? They sure as heck don't EOL their entire Phenom II line and hope Athlon covers their ass until they can get a wunderwaffen out. And when they get that wunderwaffen they sure as hell don't price it 30&#37; higher than the competition for an unknown, but estimated 10% performance boost. They respond to the competition with price cuts, and keeping a good name for themselves and keeping product moving so that when their day comes, people remember that their name is good, and more importantly, people remember they already have a system using their components, and would like to upgrade to another one of their products, thank you very much.

What I was trying to say is that you don't need the performance halo to do well as a company, as a brand, as an image. There are other perfectly acceptable ways of keeping your customers happy and unalienated, and it seems that NVidia doesn't know any of them.

This is misleading to the point of being an outright lie.

No shit they launched for way less. But who cares??? Can you buy an HD 5850 for $260 now? If so please show me where, I'd like to pick one up for that kind of money.

The day after NVidia releases stock they'll also have massively inflated prices, because so many people are still waiting to buy a high-end NVidia GPU. It's not misleading, because after initial stock runs out they'll be in the same boat.

 

[tviceman]

I could be wrong, but in the ps forum, I was told that a 400watt ps running 200 watts was much more efficient than a 800 watt ps running 200watts. And my own reading seemed to agree with that and the difference can be quite a bit.

Yeah technically I think you're correct.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=25346589&postcount=1
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost.php?p=28483286&postcount=11


In reality the differences will be very minimal, but thank you for pointing this out. I learned something today.

 

[tviceman]

I think you might be able to get those prices within the first hour of release, after that it's gone.

The day after NVidia releases stock they'll also have massively inflated prices, because so many people are still waiting to buy a high-end NVidia GPU. It's not misleading, because after initial stock runs out they'll be in the same boat.

AMD raises MSRP of their video cards. Everyone blames Nvidia.

Nvidia releases video cards and retailers sell cards for higher than MSRP. Everyone blames Nvidia.

Nvidia does not raise MSRP. Everyone blaming Nvidia doesn't care because this doesn't fit with their reasoning.

Thanks for clearing that up!

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

AMD raises MSRP of their video cards. Everyone blames Nvidia.

Nvidia releases video cards and retailers sell cards for higher than MSRP. Everyone blames Nvidia.

Nvidia does not raise MSRP. Eveyone blaming Nvidia doesn't care because this doesn't fit with their reasoning.

Thanks for clearing that up!

To be honest, I don't really give a shit what MSRP they decide to slap on their cards. What matters is the price that retailers will charge for the cards. But I don't think many people are so unreasonable as to blame the NVidia if retailers decide to hike up prices. Maybe blame them for not having adequate product and causing a situation where retailers can up prices at will...

 

[akugami]

evolucion8 - Maybe you skimmed over the thread but Skurge isn't from the USA so his prices may differ.

tviceman - Are you being dense on purpose? Skurge has mentioned he does not live in the USA. Others have pointed this out to you. More than once.

Other countries have higher taxes or there is an import duty (tax on items imported into a country) and even if the items were priced the same, the taxes can make it much higher in price. That's not counting the actual costs of shipping which may be higher for certain countries. For him, those prices might be the best he could find.

In conclusion, Skurge isn't from the USA and those prices may be the best he can get. So stop it about how much he paid for his hardware.

 

[tviceman]

To be honest, I don't really give a shit what MSRP they decide to slap on their cards. What matters is the price that retailers will charge for the cards. But I don't think many people are so unreasonable as to blame the NVidia if retailers decide to hike up prices. Maybe blame them for not having adequate product and causing a situation where retailers can up prices at will...

Oh right thanks I left one out. I bolded it.

AMD releases video cards and retailers sell cards for higher than MSRP. Everyone blames Nvidia.

AMD raises MSRP of their video cards. Everyone blames Nvidia.

Nvidia releases video cards and retailers sell cards for higher than MSRP. Everyone blames Nvidia.

Nvidia does not raise MSRP. Everyone blaming Nvidia doesn't care because this doesn't fit with their reasoning.

I think that about covers it.

 

[thilanliyan]

^Yes we're all AMDZoners...haven't you heard?