No Fermi benchmarks / Price & TDP revealed

[Narynan]

This whole deal just reminds me of the Xbox 360 Vs. PS3 launch.

Minus the whole being late thing.

 

[badb0y]

AMD raises MSRP of their video cards. Everyone blames Nvidia.

Nvidia releases video cards and retailers sell cards for higher than MSRP. Everyone blames Nvidia.

Nvidia does not raise MSRP. Everyone blaming Nvidia doesn't care because this doesn't fit with their reasoning.

Thanks for clearing that up!

The thing is, the ATi 4000 series and the GTX 200 series was very peculiar when it came to pricing/performance. The GTX 280 was released and was selling at something like $549-645$ and about a week later the ATi 4000 cards came out and were giving about the same performance of their counterparts but at a lower price. This forced nVidia to lower prices and compete with ATi leading to some very satisfied customer.

In this case it was ATi who started this price reduction through competition and better price/performace ratio. Now the tables have turned, ATi released it's card first and has been dominating the top-end GPU market for quite a while. I beleive what people expected from nVidia was to be the catalyst that starts the price deflation either through:

A.) Raw performance over the ATi card forcing ATi cards down to a lower price or

B.) Pricing cards so competitively that ATi would be forced to lower their prices.

Most people were assuming that option A would be the most likely outcome. But what we got was something very weird, nVidia is releasing a card that performs about the same as the ATi counterparts, thus disqualifying option A and they priced it competitively but not exactly the way ATi did with the 4000 series which also disqualifies option B.

So the outcome of this whole chaos seems to be pointing several things:

ATi doesn't need to lower it's prices because it pretty much equals it's counterparts in the performance department and nVidia isn't undercutting by much, if anything. The prices will, for the most part, remain the same from here on until another part comes or supply builds up to the point that demand isn't pulling the prices into the sky.

In conclusion, most people who are disappointed with the projected Fermi are disappoined because after all this waiting around, we have a GPU market which is frozen in time from prices and performances from 6 months ago. People were expecting something like the price fiasco that occurred last generation but it doesn't seem like we, the consumers, will be getting lucky this time.

I hope I made some sense in this wall of text, sorry for any mistakes I tried to be as accurate as possible and at the end of the day this is my analysis of the situation. Feel free to respond/correct me I am always open to accept my mistakes .

 

[Patrick Wolf]

I hope I made some sense in this wall of text, sorry for any mistakes I tried to be as accurate as possible and at the end of the day this is my analysis of the situation. Feel free to respond/correct me I am always open to accept my mistakes .

How about the fact that people are debating over the details/rumors of a launch that hasn't even occured yet? Seems like a mistake to me...

 

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

I could be wrong, but in the ps forum, I was told that a 400watt ps running 200 watts was much more efficient than a 800 watt ps running 200watts. And my own reading seemed to agree with that and the difference can be quite a bit.

PSUs generally have peak efficiency around 50% of rated capacity. However, that's not always true, eg. for 80Plus PSUs. Let's take the BFG ES800 in my rig as an example. Efficiency running a 220W load = 83%, 424W load = 85%, 629W load = 82%, 794W = 82%. So it's definitely more efficient at ~50% load, but not exactly an earth shattering difference

 

[badb0y]

How about the fact that people are debating over the details/rumors of a launch that hasn't even occured yet? Seems like a mistake to me...

Refer to:

....at the end of the day this is my analysis of the situation....

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

AMD releases video cards and retailers sell cards for higher than MSRP. Everyone blames TSMC.

Fixed.

 

[Skurge]

snip

I live in Namibia, that is in southern Africa (not South Africa)

We 4870 at launch here was $620, that was the cheapest i could find.
and a 5970 is $1200.

We have ONE online PC store www.nanodog.org so I didn't have much choice. lets not make this about where I'm from. We probably won't get any fermi cards anyway.

when HD2900XT came out at least it lowered the price of the 8800gts. It looks like fermi won't even accomplish something like that.

 

[Patrick Wolf]

Refer to: "...this is my analysis of the situation."

My point exactly. The "situation" as I see it, is the launch with 100% confirmed pricing/perforamcne numbers; which hasn't happened yet. If your definition of "situation" is more like a hypothesis, then so be it. But, you made it sound like the performance is confirmed.

 

[AnandThenMan]

Heat and power is irrelevant for the majority of the targetted audience.

Quoted for pure stupidity. Heat and power govern the design from beginning to end, all the way into your PC. It can't be ignored, well except by people that are desperately trying to find ways to justify out of control Nvidia power consumption if the rumours are to be believed.

Who is going to build a high end gaming rig then decide against a product becuase it uses more power and generates more heat???? Those decisions come into play in the OEM market.

Where do you think Nvidia sells the most product by far? Home builders? Yea you probably do.

My god would you people just WAIT for the real deal??? Holy Thunder Crap!!

When will I be able to buy a Fermi based card?

 

[Lonbjerg]

This TDP obsession is really retarded.
My GTX285 OC has a TDDP of ~250 Watt.
If Fermi has a TDP of 295 Watt...but ~2x the perfomance...why should I care?

Unless I am from AMD's camp, worried about performance so I start focusing on abitary sticks...

Like how hot a F1 engine gets...compared to your Prius

I game with these: linky
If I can hear my PC it's my own fault...sounds like a lot of wannabegamers don't like being mainstream, but think 400watt PSU is HIGH END *ROFL*

What is next?
An Athlon X2 is a HIGH END CPU ? *ROFL*

 

[Silverforce11]

Yes, some people focus too much on TDP, they should really focus on the 480 being 10% faster than 5870!! I mean who cares if it uses so much more power, puts out so much extra heat, costs 25% extra, and is unlikely able to OC with any decent results given it already maxes out on the 1x6 & 1x8 pin power limit...

Let's not even state the obvious that a 5870 OC commonly to 1ghz, thereby in practical terms, its actually faster than a 480. Or the other major point, a 5850 for a lot less in terms of $$ and power use/heat generated, which can also OC extremely high thereby making it faster than a stock 5870 and hence faster than a 470. Heck, when both are OC, the 5850 only loses to the 5870 by ~5%. This puts it into 480 territory.

So in reality, people who don't care about these things....

are suckers.

 

[Skurge]

Fermi is not being compared to a 285, its being compared to cypress. Power, heat and noise are what poeple were complaining about with r600, so now all of a sudden it soesnt matter? what a load of BS.

Fermi is not going to be 2x the performance of a 285, you can quote me on that.

 

[MagickMan]

Yes, some people focus too much on TDP, they should really focus on the 480 being 10% faster than 5870!! I mean who cares if it uses so much more power, puts out so much extra heat, costs 25% extra, and is unlikely able to OC with any decent results given it already maxes out on the 1x6 & 1x8 pin power limit...

Let's not even state the obvious that a 5870 OC commonly to 1ghz, thereby in practical terms, its actually faster than a 480. Or the other major point, a 5850 for a lot less in terms of $$ and power use/heat generated, which can also OC extremely high thereby making it faster than a stock 5870 and hence faster than a 470. Heck, when both are OC, the 5850 only loses to the 5870 by ~5%. This puts it into 480 territory.

So in reality, people who don't care about these things....

are suckers.

That just about sums it up. I'm kicking ass at over 1GHz and betting that my lil' 5850 will beat the shit out of a 470 (and maybe even a 480), even if you can OC the things a little.

 

[Schmide]

Statistically cards that don't follow the power to performance curve are often failures or at the very least short cycled. A couple notable cards that violated this: The nVidia 5000 series (aka Dustbuster) and the ATI 2000 series.

If the process or design is just a bit immature like the Phenom I was, it can definitely be tweaked into to a competitive product. We can only hope it's not that far off the path and nVidia has the power to do this faster than AMD did.

 

[Soltis]

Fermi is 6+ months late, Nvidia won't confirm or deny any rumours floating around, and no cards are in the hands of retailers and such yet. For all of the people trying to defend a product that isn't even out yet like they own nvidia stock; maybe you should take a step back and realize you are the consumer and that it's the company's job to defend a product...

Heck from the way things are going you would think nvidia just wants to sweep fermi under the rug anyway lol.

 

[Lonyo]

Oh right thanks I left one out. I bolded it.

AMD releases video cards and retailers sell cards for higher than MSRP. Everyone blames Nvidia.

AMD raises MSRP of their video cards. Everyone blames Nvidia.

Nvidia releases video cards and retailers sell cards for higher than MSRP. Everyone blames Nvidia.

Nvidia does not raise MSRP. Everyone blaming Nvidia doesn't care because this doesn't fit with their reasoning.

I think that about covers it.

Just like a few years ago when the situation was reversed. NV prices remained high, people blamed ATI. Funny how that works, eh? But to an NV fanboy that wouldn't matter.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=7082

your conclusion = correct

Now you know why we're all so pissed at AMD/ATI.

I've been waiting for GTS 640 and GTX to come down in price because I just got a 24" LCD, but it hasnt happened because nothing is driving the price down.

I agree, ATI needs to get on the ball, but competition at the sub-high end is better than no competition across the board.

If AMD had a product better than 8800 GTX out in the market already, we'd see a lower price tag from GTXs.

Need I go on?

1.)Release high end card
2.)No competition
3.)Profit

However, AMD wants NVIDIA to make tons of money off of their high end cards that is why they are delaying the R600 (which they claim is ready to go).

Even Wreckage joined in.

And going for the gold...

Exactly, no competition = higher prices, it works both ways. It's not just nVidia. Just think what we'd be paying for CPUs if Intel or AMD were the only game in town.

Bot no tviceman, everyone who is blaming NV is just an ATI fanboy who is blinkered. They aren't people who care about competition and want lower prices. They are blaming NV because they are pure fanboys, and when the shoe was on the other foot no one blamed ATI, no one at all. They didn't complain about the lack of ATI competition giving high prices. Not at all. It's all a big ATI fanboy conspiracy against precious NV. It's not about consumers wanting good deals.

 

[1h4x4s3x]

Sorry, it should be 480 SP. My source got a little mixed up. They are too busy making the cards right now I heard the retail availability got delayed but the launch still stands on March 26th for now. NV will decide tonight whether to push back the launch date. There will be enough cards to go around i heard.

Updated with final clocks too :

GeForce GTX 480 : 480 SP, 700/1401/1848MHz core/shader/mem, 384-bit, 1536MB, 295W TDP, US$499

GeForce GTX 470 : 448 SP, 607/1215/1674MHz core/shader/mem, 320-bit, 1280MB, 225W TDP, US$349

http://forums.vr-zone.com/news-arou...nal-specs-pricing-revealed-2.html#post7790889

 

[crisium]

Really? They only doubled the SP amount from 240 to 480?

 

[1h4x4s3x]

Yes, I'm pretty sure those numbers are true.
Confirmed by Fudzilla, BSON, vr-zone, S|A (weeks ago) etc.

 

[Keysplayr]

Still unsure if I can use a 2xx series DX10 card as dedicated Physx and use Fermi for a DX11 game (am thinking of Metroid 2033 here).

You certainly could.

 

[Keysplayr]

I really think it's time to settle down everyone. This power and heat argument is turning ugly. Just leave it alone until the benchmarks arrive. All you guys are doing is bringing yourselves closer to trolldom. And when it comes down to it, they are just graphics cards.
One calm and civil point I'd like to make, but I think I've said this already. People will buy what they want, when they want. I think we've established that some people REALLY REALLY care about power and heat. And some people REALLY REALLY don't. That is all you guys are arguing back and fourth about endlessly. Accept the conclusion and move on. My humble opinion.
Looking forward to the benchmarks.

 

[imaheadcase]

No sane person puts out power draw,price, die size, how cool it runs, etc when purchasing a GAMING card.

Those who are comparing that in this thread might as well leave.

 

[at80eighty]

Not everyone lives in the US. Not everyone has the same things at the same prices.
Clearly he lives in a country where $1700 doesn't get you the same as it would in the US.

Word. You guys in the US have it so good when it comes to PC parts

Hell, I got an Ultra 750W PSU + HD5750 and shipping from the US to my city & it still worked out cheaper than what I would have paid for a Cooler Master 750W PSU here

it took me a month more, but worth the chance so far

 

[Keysplayr]

Word. You guys in the US have it so good when it comes to PC parts

Hell, I got an Ultra 750W PSU + HD5750 and shipping from the US to my city & it still worked out cheaper than what I would have paid for a Cooler Master 750W PSU here

it took me a month more, but worth the chance so far

So does this mean, you don't have to live in the US, to buy from the US? And thus Lonyo's point is moot?

 

[tviceman]

SNIP

I hope I made some sense in this wall of text, sorry for any mistakes I tried to be as accurate as possible and at the end of the day this is my analysis of the situation. Feel free to respond/correct me I am always open to accept my mistakes .

You are making perfect sense.

Just like a few years ago when the situation was reversed. NV prices remained high, people blamed ATI. Funny how that works, eh? But to an NV fanboy that wouldn't matter.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=7082

I scanned that thread and, in my opinion, it wasn't nearly as negative or slanted against AMD as threads have been about nvidia lately. Not even close.