No Fermi benchmarks / Price & TDP revealed

[Lonbjerg]

I would think a lot of people already have gaming rigs, and they might upgrade.
I'm on a 400w PSU and would fairly happily upgrade to an HD5850. HD5870 is getting marginal, GTX470 is out of bounds, and a GTX480 is a joke.
$500 + new PSU ($50~100) vs ~$400 for the HD5870.

Power does come into play if you are upgrading, or building new, since you need a bigger PSU. Usually that costs more money, in addition to the money you are already paying for the card. This isn't a mega powerful dual GPU card which annihilates everything which has come before (e.g. GX2, 295, 5970). This is a regular single card which wouldn't really be advisable on anything under 500w, and is priced much higher than the competition.

He said HIGH END gaming rig...not middle end.

Caring for TDP is like asking how many miles per gallon a NASCAR does

 

[GTaudiophile]

So what do we call the 26th if it's not even a paper launch?

 

[GaiaHunter]

He said HIGH END gaming rig...not middle end.

Caring for TDP is like asking how many miles per gallon a NASCAR does

Guess it is the same situation of people complaining they can't fit a 5970 on their case.


Lets hope there is decent availability at least so we can see some price drops on ATI cards.

 

[yh125d]

He said HIGH END gaming rig...not middle end.

Caring for TDP is like asking how many miles per gallon a NASCAR does

Lots of enthusiasts build multi-gpu high end gaming rigs (4890xfire, GTX285 SLI), and can get by with 650W PSUs just fine. If the 295w TDP is true, power consumption for two cards will be 550w+, 150w for overclocked quad, 100w for mobo/drives/fans/ram, and the PSU requirement for a high end overclocked SLI rig just got a LOT higher.

 

[1h4x4s3x]

If TDP isn't a problem then have fun with the heat and noise.
But hey, enthusiast don't care about that, right? Keep fooling yourself.

 

[gramboh]

Of cousre power consumption, heat and noise matter to high end enthusiasts as well as OEM builders. The issue is whether increases in those items are justified by the increase in performance. If two cards are within 5% of each other, but one has significantly lower power consumption and heat output, I would take the second (and OC it slightly). I hate loud fan noise (and I'm running a single GTX 280, it's not loud but it's annoying at high fan speeds if I am using speakers and there is a quiet scene in a game).

 

[tviceman]

At least not on the 26th.
http://www.nordichardware.com/en/co...vidia-moving-media-embargo-to-march-29th.html




Prices:

GeForce GTX 480 : 512 SP, 384-bit, 295W TDP, US$499

GeForce GTX 470 : 448 SP, 320-bit, 225W TDP, US$349

http://vr-zone.com/articles/nvidia-geforce-gtx-480-final-specs--pricing-revealed/8635.html

Interesting, considering that brightsideofnews "confirmed" the gtx480 only has 480 cores. Is that wrong? Is the gtx480 NOT castrated? Also, Charlie said just days ago the TDP of the gtx480 was 270 watts.

To me it sounds like everyone is still guessing and nobody knows for sure yet.

 

[dank69]

So what do we call the 26th if it's not even a paper launch?

Friday

 

[MarcVenice]

Interesting, considering that brightsideofnews "confirmed" the gtx480 only has 480 cores. Is that wrong? Is the gtx480 NOT castrated? Also, Charlie said just days ago the TDP of the gtx480 was 270 watts.

To me it sounds like everyone is still guessing and nobody knows for sure yet.

From what I know, everyone and no-one has been talking specs, talking prices, talking tdp's, and all of them come up with different numbers. Heck, I had a boardpartner confirm that untill today they didn't even get final spec from Nvidia, and that it still might be subject to change.

There are some ballpark figures, but really, that's it ...

 

[sisq0kidd]

I don't get the "late to the market" argument. If Nvidia releases the card right now with a competitive price, how does it being late affect anything at all? If it was released 6 months ago, it would have been priced accordingly 6 months ago. If it's released now, it'll be priced according to the current market.

 

[Daedalus685]

He said HIGH END gaming rig...not middle end.

Caring for TDP is like asking how many miles per gallon a NASCAR does

That is asinine.. are you trying to say that if you had teh choice of a 500W card that pumped 100fps or a 150W card that gave you 98 you would switch to the more powerful one without a second thought?

I understand that performance is the most important metric we have, but it is not the only thing that crosses an enthusiasts mind. Hell, fuel efficiency crosses a nascar engineer's mind plenty often as well.

Power is a very real consideration for many 'enthusiasts' to try to claim that one is not a real enthusiast unless they don't care is ridiculous.

 

[Daedalus685]

I don't get the "late to the market" argument. If Nvidia releases the card right now with a competitive price, how does it being late affect anything at all? If it was released 6 months ago, it would have been priced accordingly 6 months ago. If it's released now, it'll be priced according to the current market.

It being late does not matter to many people. But being late does tend to put a sour taste in folk's mouths. All things being equal (they are not in this case), if two equivalent products are released 6months apart for the same price, the first of the two would often be perceived by the public as 'better' even though it may not be. It is not as cut and dry with this as the performance will not be identical, both have different features, etc. but perception is a very real part of a product, of which a delay can greatly diminish.

 

[heyheybooboo]

What the heck .... nvidia promised some hot products this year

With all the talk, the limited supply, etc., prices will jump $30-$50 and folks will snap them all up. Good for them - Good for nV (except when core partners get antsy).

AMD feels no real pressure to drop prices but will probably cut 5-10% or offer up some nice rebates.




--

 

[Skurge]

I dont know anybody who buys 400 Watt PSUs for home built gaming rigs. Hence my reason for saying welcome to 2003. When did you get that PSU? I'd hope not within the past 2-3 years. I really think your argument while valid applies to such a miniscule % of the gaming community it is pointless to argue over.

My PC runs on a 460W PSU, I can happily upgrade to a 5850 or maybe a 5870, but with such a high TDP I can't upgrade to a 470 or a 480.

Now that is bad for me cause I don't have the option to upgrade to them without a new PSU (600W PSU costing >$200 in my country)

and bad for Nv cause they loose a potential sale and you are not gonna tell me I'm not an enthusiast just cause i don't have a megawatt PSU especially after spending $1,700 on my rig

 

[gorobei]

So what do we call the 26th if it's not even a paper launch?

cardboard launch, obviously. since all you will receive is the cardboard box with the video card to arrive later.

 

[dguy6789]

1. How does a single monolithic die affect me when playing games?
2. How does the memory architecture of Fermi affect me while playing games?
3. How does the physical size of Fermi affect me while playing games?
4. So AMDs 320 dollar card is already taxed. Sounds like we are on the tick side of the software\hardware pendelum.

I'd say right now we are being held back by CPU performance.

All of these points mean the card will be more expensive compared to how much it is actually worth(performance and date of release) and be produced in lower quantities, which drastically affects your likelihood to get the card. Power consumption and heat output are the properties that are influenced by the aforementioned large monolithic die that directly affect you even after you buy the card.

 

[Kuzi]

I'm sorry but Fermi as an architecture does look like a failure if these TDP and performance rumors are true. I mean a GTX480 is 5-10% faster than a 5870, but has a 55% higher TDP?! I know that most enthusiasts do not care about the high TDP, but what about the lower end Fermi derivatives and mobile parts? The high end cards are only a small part of the market, and Heat/TDP will be an issue for other market segments. What will the TDP of mobile Fermi parts be like if a single GTX480 is already reaching ~300W?

Moreover, this would also mean that a 5970 is 25-30% faster than the GTX480, but has equal TDP, that is not good at all for NV. After a 6 month delay, I was expecting more from Fermi, especially that Nvidia always came back with a vengeance after getting beat. A 10% higher performance over the 5870 is nothing special for such a large, power hungry, terribly delayed, and supposedly advanced GPU. Hopefully Fermi ends up being more competitive than what is revealed now.

 

[shaynoa]

i told you i could smell a dead rat and it looks like something has been chewing on it,i hate being right

 

[tviceman]

My PC runs on a 460W PSU, I can happily upgrade to a 5850 or maybe a 5870, but with such a high TDP I can't upgrade to a 470 or a 480.

Now that is bad for me cause I don't have the option to upgrade to them without a new PSU (600W PSU costing >$200 in my country)

and bad for Nv cause they loose a potential sale and you are not gonna tell me I'm not an enthusiast just cause i don't have a megawatt PSU especially after spending $1,700 on my rig

You spent $1700 on a pc and only have a 460w PSU to show for it?? I spent almost half as much as you and have a 700w PSU.

 

[MarcVenice]

I'm sorry but Fermi as an architecture does look like a failure if these TDP and performance rumors are true. I mean a GTX480 is 5-10% faster than a 5870, but has a 55% higher TDP?! I know that most enthusiasts do not care about the high TDP, but what about the lower end Fermi derivatives and mobile parts? The high end cards are only a small part of the market, and Heat/TDP will be an issue for other market segments. What will the TDP of mobile Fermi parts be like if a single GTX480 is already reaching ~300W?

Moreover, this would also mean that a 5970 is 25-30% faster than the GTX480, but has equal TDP, that is not good at all for NV. After a 6 month delay, I was expecting more from Fermi, especially that Nvidia always came back with a vengeance after getting beat. A 10% higher performance over the 5870 is nothing special for such a large, power hungry, terribly delayed, and supposedly advanced GPU. Hopefully Fermi ends up being more competitive than what is revealed now.

If you were to think for a few seconds, some things might make sense, and not look at bad as they do. Nvidia has been having a lot of production problems. Low yields etc. I'm thinking the chips need a lot of juice, for all the cuda-cores to work properly. If I'm not mistaken, the GTX 470 has a tdp of 220w or there abouts, that's a third less then GTX 480, with only 10% less shaders (and most likely lower clocks). That's because Nvidia can probably decrease the voltage needed exponentially ...

With lower-end parts, nvidia might not have as much if any real problems getting decent yields, and thus the gpu doesn't need as much power.

Then again, if GF100 is only 10% faster then a HD 5870, with 3,2 billion transistors, then obviously it will use more power ...

 

[Daedalus685]

You spent $1700 on a pc and only have a 460w PSU to show for it?? I spent almost half as much as you and have a 700w PSU.

Are you seriously arguing about what someone has to spend in another country on a computer? Why on earth does it matter? That goes to the chap you were quoting... no one cares what you did or did not pay in a thread about Fermi power consumption

I am at a total loss to understand how power usage isn't an enthusiast concern, even if all enthusiasts are those defined as having a 800W PSU or greater...

If Fermi consumes 300W there will be a large number of folks that won't care... but that is not to say no enthusiast will care... You're damn right I care when computer efficiency goes backwards... I want my CPU/GPU embedded eyes for fucks sake!

For anyone to claim that one is not an enthusiast if they care about power... or that the power doesn't matter to them, thus should not matter to anyone... it just retarded.

 

[shaynoa]

buy ati and show nvidia your disgust,i'd like to see ati's 5970 run the sled on rails to see what that looked like

 

[Red Storm]

When competing cards are within percentage points of each other in terms of performance, heat and power usage does indeed become a big factor.

 

[Keysplayr]

My god would you people just WAIT for the real deal??? Holy Thunder Crap!!

 

[Keysplayr]

buy ati and show nvidia your disgust,i'd like to see ati's 5970 run the sled on rails to see what that looked like

That would be pretty cool actually. If it was even possible.