NIU shooting

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
You've actually illustrated my point. In Washington the constitution allows me to have firearms. The RCW sets the laws, and specifically allows me to carry concealed. The RCW also specifies where I can't carry (like courthouses, mental health facilities, and so on). There is NO ALLOWANCE in the RCW for schools to infringe on my rights. And yet, schools are allowed to. As public bodies they should not have the power to overrule the RCW, and yet they do.

Furthermore you never show why a school is a special entity entitled to special rules.

YOU can choose when to risk your life. I give you that. Now give the same consideration to me and allow me the right to decide when I can and cannot take action to protect my own life. Otherwise demonstrate to me that there is a compelling need to overrule that right.

How old are you?

35.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
You've actually illustrated my point. In Washington the constitution allows me to have firearms. The RCW sets the laws, and specifically allows me to carry concealed. The RCW also specifies where I can't carry (like courthouses, mental health facilities, and so on). There is NO ALLOWANCE in the RCW for schools to infringe on my rights. And yet, schools are allowed to. As public bodies they should not have the power to overrule the RCW, and yet they do.

Furthermore you never show why a school is a special entity entitled to special rules.

YOU can choose when to risk your life. I give you that. Now give the same consideration to me and allow me the right to decide when I can and cannot take action to protect my own life. Otherwise demonstrate to me that there is a compelling need to overrule that right.

How old are you?

35.

Let's just say I'm concerned with your ability to defend yourself without endangering others.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: Skillet49
Just checking in we just got back from the hospital and She's doing ok, luckily she was the least injured out of all of the students in the hall.
We are driving down to her house tonight to get away from campus.

Thankfully the university responded quickly or else it could have been much worse.

Glad to hear that's she is ok.

But I must ask... what did the university (or anyone) do to lessen the damage?

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Let's just say I'm concerned with your ability to defend yourself without endangering others.

That's not an adequate reason to infringe on someone's rights.

Now, if he were to injure someone due to his own negligence, he should face the consequences. We all should.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
You've actually illustrated my point. In Washington the constitution allows me to have firearms. The RCW sets the laws, and specifically allows me to carry concealed. The RCW also specifies where I can't carry (like courthouses, mental health facilities, and so on). There is NO ALLOWANCE in the RCW for schools to infringe on my rights. And yet, schools are allowed to. As public bodies they should not have the power to overrule the RCW, and yet they do.

Furthermore you never show why a school is a special entity entitled to special rules.

YOU can choose when to risk your life. I give you that. Now give the same consideration to me and allow me the right to decide when I can and cannot take action to protect my own life. Otherwise demonstrate to me that there is a compelling need to overrule that right.

How old are you?

35.

Let's just say I'm concerned with your ability to defend yourself without endangering others.

Nope. Not good enough by a LONG shot.

The federal government decided I was safe when I enlisted in the military and they granted my clearances and handed me a firearm. The state of Washington said I was safe when they issued me a concealed weapon permit. They said it again when they issued me my armed security license.

Absolutely every study has shown it by proving that persons with a concealed permit are 5 times less likely to commit a crime than the general populace, and even more unlikely to commit a crime than law enforcement. The state of Utah demonstrated it by allowing everyone to carry and suffering ABSOLUTELY NO negative consequences. Other colleges have done likewise.

In other words, absolutely every law, every agency, and every fact says I'm safe enough to carry almost everywhere. Why should a school, a lesser political body with no authority to refute the greater government, be allowed to tell me I can't when there is absolutely NO demonstrated need to restrict me thus?

Show me actual support that someone shouldn't be allowed to carry on school grounds. Prove to me that there is a magical barrier around a school which changes absolutely everything. Do it, or admit openly that there is NO support for your position, but you want it just because you want it...because right now that's all I'm seeing/hearing.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
You've actually illustrated my point. In Washington the constitution allows me to have firearms. The RCW sets the laws, and specifically allows me to carry concealed. The RCW also specifies where I can't carry (like courthouses, mental health facilities, and so on). There is NO ALLOWANCE in the RCW for schools to infringe on my rights. And yet, schools are allowed to. As public bodies they should not have the power to overrule the RCW, and yet they do.

Furthermore you never show why a school is a special entity entitled to special rules.

YOU can choose when to risk your life. I give you that. Now give the same consideration to me and allow me the right to decide when I can and cannot take action to protect my own life. Otherwise demonstrate to me that there is a compelling need to overrule that right.

How old are you?

35.

Let's just say I'm concerned with your ability to defend yourself without endangering others.

Nope. Not good enough by a LONG shot.

The federal government decided I was safe when I enlisted in the military and they granted my clearances and handed me a firearm. The state of Washington said I was safe when they issued me a concealed weapon permit. They said it again when they issued me my armed security license.

Absolutely every study has shown it by proving that persons with a concealed permit are 5 times less likely to commit a crime than the general populace, and even more unlikely to commit a crime than law enforcement. The state of Utah demonstrated it by allowing everyone to carry and suffering ABSOLUTELY NO negative consequences. Other colleges have done likewise.

In other words, absolutely every law, every agency, and every fact says I'm safe enough to carry almost everywhere. Why should a school, a lesser political body with no authority to refute the greater government, be allowed to tell me I can't when there is absolutely NO demonstrated need to restrict me thus?

Show me actual support that someone shouldn't be allowed to carry on school grounds. Prove to me that there is a magical barrier around a school which changes absolutely everything. Do it, or admit openly that there is NO support for your position, but you want it just because you want it...because right now that's all I'm seeing/hearing.

Given your qualifications I would be comfortable allowing you carrying a concealed weapon. However, I would not feel comfortable with most college students carrying and you will not convince me otherwise.

Just out of curiousity how often are you, at the age of 35, on a college campus?

My company has a no weapons policy and if I were to violate that I'd lose my job. I've never felt the need or desire to carry at work though.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Let's just say I'm concerned with your ability to defend yourself without endangering others.

A person can illegally carry a firearm at any time. So why would you be worried about someone legally carrying?

 

[xeemzor]

Originally posted by: TallBill

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Let's just say I'm concerned with your ability to defend yourself without endangering others.

A person can illegally carry a firearm at any time. So why would you be worried about someone legally carrying?

Because all guns are EVIL!!!11oneoneone!!

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
You've actually illustrated my point. In Washington the constitution allows me to have firearms. The RCW sets the laws, and specifically allows me to carry concealed. The RCW also specifies where I can't carry (like courthouses, mental health facilities, and so on). There is NO ALLOWANCE in the RCW for schools to infringe on my rights. And yet, schools are allowed to. As public bodies they should not have the power to overrule the RCW, and yet they do.

Furthermore you never show why a school is a special entity entitled to special rules.

YOU can choose when to risk your life. I give you that. Now give the same consideration to me and allow me the right to decide when I can and cannot take action to protect my own life. Otherwise demonstrate to me that there is a compelling need to overrule that right.

How old are you?

35.

Let's just say I'm concerned with your ability to defend yourself without endangering others.

Nope. Not good enough by a LONG shot.

The federal government decided I was safe when I enlisted in the military and they granted my clearances and handed me a firearm. The state of Washington said I was safe when they issued me a concealed weapon permit. They said it again when they issued me my armed security license.

Absolutely every study has shown it by proving that persons with a concealed permit are 5 times less likely to commit a crime than the general populace, and even more unlikely to commit a crime than law enforcement. The state of Utah demonstrated it by allowing everyone to carry and suffering ABSOLUTELY NO negative consequences. Other colleges have done likewise.

In other words, absolutely every law, every agency, and every fact says I'm safe enough to carry almost everywhere. Why should a school, a lesser political body with no authority to refute the greater government, be allowed to tell me I can't when there is absolutely NO demonstrated need to restrict me thus?

Show me actual support that someone shouldn't be allowed to carry on school grounds. Prove to me that there is a magical barrier around a school which changes absolutely everything. Do it, or admit openly that there is NO support for your position, but you want it just because you want it...because right now that's all I'm seeing/hearing.

Given your qualifications I would be comfortable allowing you carrying a concealed weapon. However, I would not feel comfortable with most college students carrying and you will not convince me otherwise.

Just out of curiousity how often are you, at the age of 35, on a college campus?

My company has a no weapons policy and if I were to violate that I'd lose my job. I've never felt the need or desire to carry at work though.

First of all, in most states no one under 21 can get a cpl anyway, so MOST students wouldn't be able to carry. Then consider that even of all those who could, most never do. The ones who generally want to are those who are prior military, have worked law enforcement or security, are for some other reason are particularly close to the subject. In other words, usually those that want to are those that are already trained to. Not always, but generally. This helps explain why the statistics on abuses are so incredibly low for concealed holders.

I'm on college campus 3-5 days a week (going for my Masters). But I'm also an assistant coach of the school speech team starting next semester, so I'll still be on quite a bit. Add to that my friends and family who are there and you end up with the idea that I'll be on campus for most of my life in one way or another.

Since I'm going to be a high school teacher I'll still be on school grounds, but secondary is an entirely different beast than college campus so I won't delve into that here. That being said, I do have issues with a lot of workplace no weapon policies as well, but most often those are private businesses so I just choose not to work or shop there. There are some places that I'd NEVER agree to be without a weapon...cashier, alone at night, any type of security, etc.

 

[daniel1113]

I'm glad you brought that up, PrinceofWands. People seem to think that students are the only people on school grounds, yet there are many groups: administrators, visitors, professionals, adult students, etc. So, even if you believe that students can't handle ccw (which is absurd considering we are adults by every other measure and allowed to carry everywhere else in the state), you leave out a large number of people on campus.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: daniel1113
I'm glad you brought that up, PrinceofWands. People seem to think that students are the only people on school grounds, yet there are many groups: administrators, visitors, professionals, adult students, etc. So, even if you believe that students can't handle ccw (which is absurd considering we are adults by every other measure and allowed to carry everywhere else in the state), you leave out a large number of people on campus.

Good point. Our group is only about 10% those people so far, with 90% being students. It will be interesting to see if those numbers change over time however.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: daniel1113
I'm glad you brought that up, PrinceofWands. People seem to think that students are the only people on school grounds, yet there are many groups: administrators, visitors, professionals, adult students, etc. So, even if you believe that students can't handle ccw (which is absurd considering we are adults by every other measure and allowed to carry everywhere else in the state), you leave out a large number of people on campus.

Good point. Our group is only about 10% those people so far, with 90% being students. It will be interesting to see if those numbers change over time however.

SCCC?

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: daniel1113
I'm glad you brought that up, PrinceofWands. People seem to think that students are the only people on school grounds, yet there are many groups: administrators, visitors, professionals, adult students, etc. So, even if you believe that students can't handle ccw (which is absurd considering we are adults by every other measure and allowed to carry everywhere else in the state), you leave out a large number of people on campus.

Good point. Our group is only about 10% those people so far, with 90% being students. It will be interesting to see if those numbers change over time however.

SCCC?

Yup.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Just FYI...for anyone interested Phil Hendrie has one of our guys on tonight. Not exactly sure when. Anyway it sounds like they'll be talking about this stuff throughout the night.

 

[Finalnight]

I was talking to my family/friends in IL (its my home state), and some said some of the same things that some people here were saying to me. IE, statistically you won't be attacked, don't let this influence your decision, guns won't help (I loled that one big time) etc.

You know, thats probably what the NIU students were told by their parents after V Tech.

Honestly, I may not withdraw my app, but it has definitely moved all IL applications down the list.

At least here in MN, the school may prohibit carrying, but I am authorized by the state so the maxiumum that could happen would be academic sanctions. In IL, I could get jailed for carrying anywhere in the state.

 

[OFFascist]

Illinois has some of the most restrictive firearm laws in the nation.

You have to get a permit from the state just to buy a firearm or ammunition, and no concealed carry at all. Certain cities, have thier own more restrictive laws. Chicago for example bans handguns and you have to register your weapons.

I while back one of the kids at Viginia tech after the shooting was interviewed about concealed carry on campus, he said something to the effect of "I dont think more guns would solve anything, and I still put my faith in law enforcement to protect us."

IMO that just shows that he learned nothing from the incident. It happened precicely because law enforcement cannot be there to save us. They are there to solve crimes after the fact and only rarely are they able to be in the right place at the right time to stop them.

Ultimately our lives are our own and its up to each of us as individuals to decide how we will live them and what steps we will take to protect them.

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
That's complete bullshit and you know it.

Oh, and I think you have your facts wrong as it is almost impossible to legally carry a weapon in New York or California unless you're law enforcement.

that's not true, in CA it depends on the county you reside in, some are easier than others to get.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/form...f/ccwissuances2006.pdf

Notice for many of the small, rural counties, there are more CCW than all of LA, SF and SD county combined. Some of the smaller counties almost have reputations for being practically shall issues.

Note also that although CCWs are issued by county, it is good statewide, creating an assbackwards situation that nonresidents of the big city counties basically have more rights than residents themselves.

 

[Trogdor91]

As a DeKalb resident, I am deeply saddened by this and it has been a crazy day.
My thoughts are with the victims and their families.

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: OFFascist
Illinois has some of the most restrictive firearm laws in the nation.

You have to get a permit from the state just to buy a firearm or ammunition, and no concealed carry at all. Certain cities, have thier own more restrictive laws. Chicago for example bans handguns and you have to register your weapons.

I while back one of the kids at Viginia tech after the shooting was interviewed about concealed carry on campus, he said something to the effect of "I dont think more guns would solve anything, and I still put my faith in law enforcement to protect us."

IMO that just shows that he learned nothing from the incident. It happened precicely because law enforcement cannot be there to save us. They are there to solve crimes after the fact and only rarely are they able to be in the right place at the right time to stop them.

Ultimately our lives are our own and its up to each of us as individuals to decide how we will live them and what steps we will take to protect them.

yeah most people do not realize, the police have NO obligation to save anyone.
You cannot sue the police for not acting faster.

The vast majority of the VT victims died after the police already showed up to investigate the first shooting and they did not figure it out.

People have tried repeatedly to sue the police for not preventing crime, often when the police know a crime is in progress, and the courts ALWAYS strike the suits down.

 

[winr]

Originally posted by: Jschmuck2

Originally posted by: Unheard
Well it looks like another campuses Gun Free zone worked well.

For keeping the law abiding unarmed.

Here's hoping everyone is alright, except the piece of trash that committed this. To bad no one could of finished him before he started.

Go back to P&N and politicize a tragedy somewhere else, hillbilly.

Why are you ragging on "unheard", the "Gun FreeZone" on Campuses do not mean a thing to a killer.
He stated a fact..did he not ???

Then you personally attacked him by calling him a 'Hillbilly" ??

Are all people in his State Hillbilys in your way of thinking ??

I am serious, can you not have a conversation with someone without attacking there person ??


By the way I am a stupid redneck from Friendswood, Texas.

 

[winr]

Originally posted by: Qianglong

Originally posted by: Pepsei
was the shooter asian? just wondering.

Are you being blind or a being racist prick? Can you use your retarded eyes and read those godamn articles before spewing rubbish here?

Hi Qianglong, winr here.


If I asked if the shooter was white..............would I be assailed with things like " Racist pig, etc. etc.

I am light, bright and almost white, I guess I am caucasian, I am a mixture of people, I am a mutt.

Actually I am a person that does not react the same as a lot of people.

I dont wear my feelings on my sleeve as many people do.

No one can ask a simple question anymore out of curiousity without being attacked and assailed and judged an azzhole or something.


Lighten up people..............

 

[CptCrunch]

just now hearing about this, I am very sadden by this.

 

[winr]

Originally posted by: CptCrunch
just now hearing about this, I am very sadden by this.

I agree, this is so sad, I was callous in not stating how terrible this incident was in my previous posts.

People going to campus to get an education to fulfill their dreams should feel safe and secure so they can apply themselves to their studies.

 

[Uppsala9496]

Looks like 7 dead now including the gunman.

 

[WraithETC]

Laundry List of behavior problems in three two one....

Jack Thompson: Hey wait wheres my 10minutes!