NIU shooting

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Utah is your best bet then. Although there are about twenty public schools that still allow, as well as a number of private schools.

I find it hilarious someone would limit their education to schools that allow concealed carry. Your choice of institution will impact the rest of your life; a better school will give you different networking opportunities and different employment opportunities.

Besides, too many gun nuts assume that if concealed carry was allowed, that everyone on campus would run out and get a weapon. Most people still wouldn't. And chances are this incident still would have unfolded exactly as it did even on a campus that allowed handguns. It's not like owning a handgun makes you Robocop, and you could have unloaded a clip into the gunman from across the classroom before he got his shots off. Most would have ran out the classroom regardless of whether they had a weapon or not; self-preservation, because the gunman entering the room with his finger on the trigger had a tactical advantage.

 

[Cuda1447]

This shit is happening so often lately. WTF is up with this country? Whats changing thats causing this huge increase in violence? Its really fucking sad when I see news of a school/mall shooting or whatever and it doesn't even elicit much of a response. I heard about this earlier today and I was like ya, ok. After thinking about it, what the fuck? This type of shit should be HUGE news but we are so fucking desensitized due to the high volume of shootings!

 

[LongCoolMother]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
This shit is happening so often lately. WTF is up with this country? Whats changing thats causing this huge increase in violence? Its really fucking sad when I see news of a school/mall shooting or whatever and it doesn't even elicit much of a response. I heard about this earlier today and I was like ya, ok. After thinking about it, what the fuck? This type of shit should be HUGE news but we are so fucking desensitized due to the high volume of shootings!

My sentiments exactly. I'm wondering if this is the case in just America or perhaps some other western countries. It sure SEEMS like America is a terribly violent place among developed countries, but I really don't know the statistics of that. Maybe we just don't hear about other countries?

 

[Modeps]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: Modeps
I understand and respect your right as an American to own and carry a weapon, however actually being worried about attending a school because you can't carry? That seems a little much. Its not like this stuff really happens all the time... (although lately it may seem that way)

Considering he is likely to spend 8 hours (or more) on campus every day, I don't see how such sentiments could be considered over the top. I wouldn't work somewhere where I couldn't carry for 8+ hours a day.

I work at a University in IT. I've never felt like I needed protection at my current job, or the one where I worked in the middle of a not so friendly area. I'm not anti-gun by any means, but to quote Mike Skinner: "That kinda paranoia'll land you in the looney bin."

 

[Red Dawn]

I'd want to be able to carry a gun legally to protect myself from all the other assholes carrying guns legally.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Utah is your best bet then. Although there are about twenty public schools that still allow, as well as a number of private schools.

I find it hilarious someone would limit their education to schools that allow concealed carry. Your choice of institution will impact the rest of your life; a better school will give you different networking opportunities and different employment opportunities.

And what good will those "networking opportunities" mean if you are killed on campus because you couldn't defend yourself? Sure, it's not likely to happen, but I don't see how you could call it laughable.

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Besides, too many gun nuts assume that if concealed carry was allowed, that everyone on campus would run out and get a weapon.

Not quite... I assume that I will have a gun and a chance to defend myself. I don't expect to become superman, and I don't know any fellow ccw holders that expect to be, either.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: Modeps

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: Modeps
I understand and respect your right as an American to own and carry a weapon, however actually being worried about attending a school because you can't carry? That seems a little much. Its not like this stuff really happens all the time... (although lately it may seem that way)

Considering he is likely to spend 8 hours (or more) on campus every day, I don't see how such sentiments could be considered over the top. I wouldn't work somewhere where I couldn't carry for 8+ hours a day.

I work at a University in IT. I've never felt like I needed protection at my current job, or the one where I worked in the middle of a not so friendly area. I'm not anti-gun by any means, but to quote Mike Skinner: "That kinda paranoia'll land you in the looney bin."

If you find it acceptable, more power to you. I don't, and so I choose to work elsewhere. I'm not sure how that makes me paranoid or looney.

 

[Duddy]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
I'd want to be able to carry a gun legally to protect myself from all the other assholes carrying guns legally.

:thumbsup:

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: daniel1113
And what good will those "networking opportunities" mean if you are killed on campus because you couldn't defend yourself? Sure, it's not likely to happen, but I don't see how you could call it laughable.

It's statistically akin to never going outside during a storm because you're afraid of getting struck by lightning.

It's simple math:

Take the number of on-campus shooting deaths/injuries each year and divide it by the number of public/private university students. Multiply that number by 100 to get your percentage.

Then try not to make yourself sound like a loon about withdrawing your application from NIU (or any other institution that doesn't allow concealed carry).

EDIT: Did the math for you.

2005 Census: 15.9 million college students (larger now, but no new census info)

67 deaths/injuries (which includes the abnormally high death count from the VT shooting)

.00042%

 

[Pocatello]

I'm more worry about dying in a car accident than being shot by some maniac with a gun.

 

[daniel1113]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: daniel1113
And what good will those "networking opportunities" mean if you are killed on campus because you couldn't defend yourself? Sure, it's not likely to happen, but I don't see how you could call it laughable.

It's statistically akin to never going outside during a storm because you're afraid of getting struck by lightning.

It's simple math:

Take the number of public/private university students and divide it by the number of on-campus shooting deaths/injuries each year. Multiply that number by 100 to get your percentage.

Then try not to make yourself sound like a loon about withdrawing your application from NIU (or any other institution that doesn't allow concealed carry).

I never said I was withdrawing an application. I said it was understandable that someone would want to. It's about supporting schools, businesses, and other institutions that allow ccw. The more support they get, the more it's likely to happen at other places (it's that damn free market concept at work).

And, I'm fairly confident that one's odds of being shot/killed/harmed on campus are no different than one's odds off campus.

 

[irishScott]

If the frequency of this shit gets higher, I may be tempted to violate my school's no weapons policy on certain days...

 

[Cuda1447]

Originally posted by: irishScott
If the frequency of this shit gets higher, I may be tempted to violate my school's no weapons policy on certain days...

How do you decided which days?

 

[BurnItDwn]

I heard about this on the radio on my way home from work.
This is terrible

Skillet49, thanks for your contribution to this thread. I'm glad your girl's OK.

I went to NIU for two years (fall1998-spring2000)
I guess this shooting kinda seems "close to home" to me. I'd never have thought something like that would happen at Northern.

I hope all 18 of the injured can make full recoveries.
4 victims dead (as well as the gunman)

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Utah is your best bet then. Although there are about twenty public schools that still allow, as well as a number of private schools.

I find it hilarious someone would limit their education to schools that allow concealed carry. Your choice of institution will impact the rest of your life; a better school will give you different networking opportunities and different employment opportunities.

Besides, too many gun nuts assume that if concealed carry was allowed, that everyone on campus would run out and get a weapon. Most people still wouldn't. And chances are this incident still would have unfolded exactly as it did even on a campus that allowed handguns. It's not like owning a handgun makes you Robocop, and you could have unloaded a clip into the gunman from across the classroom before he got his shots off. Most would have ran out the classroom regardless of whether they had a weapon or not; self-preservation, because the gunman entering the room with his finger on the trigger had a tactical advantage.

And being shot and killed because you were needlessly made helpless won't affect the rest of your life?

By the way, choice of school is only going to affect about 1-5% of college grads. For most people it won't matter in the least what school you went to.

It's not about successfully stopping the shooting, it's about feeling empowered to protect your own life. Just having that peace of mind allows a beneficial learning environment prohibited when our rights are stripped away.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Twista
My auntie works there and was there when the shooting happens.

The world sucks. People are crazy. We go to school to have a better fuvking life, but some dumb fuvk takes it like hes god. This world is fucked up. I dont even feel safe anywhere now. Not even at the mall since the guy shoot up lane byrane in illinois also. SMH

Are there a lot of depressed people in Illinois?

Personally, I blame the Bush administration.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
I'd want to be able to carry a gun legally to protect myself from all the other assholes carrying guns legally.

No kidding. I own guns and I've seen some of the hard-ons who own guns down at my local shooting range and quite honestly, I don't really want them walking around armed. Just look at that nutball we have here who has his gun in every single picture he posts of himself.

 

[theprodigalrebel]

Originally posted by: daniel1113
Considering he is likely to spend 8 hours (or more) on campus every day, I don't see how such sentiments could be considered over the top. I wouldn't work somewhere where I couldn't carry for 8+ hours a day.

Honest question: do you work/live in the middle of gang-turf? I'm all for the right to carry weapons but I've seen people here post, "I wouldn't work/live in a State that prohibited CCW."

Seriously, why is this such a major deciding factor? Do the people that make such comments live in crime epicenters where someone in the neighborhood gets shot every 12 hours? Where do you guys live, downtown Baghdad?

 

[NikolaeVarius]

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Finalnight
*Goes to withdraw 2008 NIU law application....

Seriously, I was already worried about attending any IL law schools because they ban carry and are highly restrictive on guns, I would have been a sitting duck with both my handguns in my apartment if I had attended a year earlier.

Condolences to the wounded/injured.

Why? Statistically speaking the odds are in your favor that nothing like this will happen in the near future at that school.

True...lightening striking twice and all that.

Then again, the same can be said for any safety measure: smoke detector, fire extinguisher, first aid kit, etc. So long as there's any chance (which there will always be) we'll be nervous as long as we're kept unprepared. Rational or not it can have detrimental effects on our education.

I would be more nervous with the knowledge that the College Student next to me has a gun than I would be over the threat of Campus Shooter.

 

[Savarak]

http://www.chicagotribune.com my friend is on the front page of the tribune...

 

[waggy]

6 confirmed dead including the shooter. man that sucks.


and pulling out of a school because they don't allow CCW is insane. hell even limiting the school you go to because of it is insane. the odds on something happening is less then getting hit by a car walking to a bar.

 

[xeemzor]

Originally posted by: tenshodo13

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Finalnight
*Goes to withdraw 2008 NIU law application....

Seriously, I was already worried about attending any IL law schools because they ban carry and are highly restrictive on guns, I would have been a sitting duck with both my handguns in my apartment if I had attended a year earlier.

Condolences to the wounded/injured.

Why? Statistically speaking the odds are in your favor that nothing like this will happen in the near future at that school.

True...lightening striking twice and all that.

Then again, the same can be said for any safety measure: smoke detector, fire extinguisher, first aid kit, etc. So long as there's any chance (which there will always be) we'll be nervous as long as we're kept unprepared. Rational or not it can have detrimental effects on our education.

I would be more nervous with the knowledge that the College Student next to me has a gun than I would be over the threat of Campus Shooter.

Why? Statistically, I have seen reports that show Concealed Carry License holders perform less gun crimes than the police do. Regardless of which report you believe, the number of people who commit crimes with these licenses is almost insignificant.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Utah is your best bet then. Although there are about twenty public schools that still allow, as well as a number of private schools.

I find it hilarious someone would limit their education to schools that allow concealed carry. Your choice of institution will impact the rest of your life; a better school will give you different networking opportunities and different employment opportunities.

And what good will those "networking opportunities" mean if you are killed on campus because you couldn't defend yourself? Sure, it's not likely to happen, but I don't see how you could call it laughable.

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Besides, too many gun nuts assume that if concealed carry was allowed, that everyone on campus would run out and get a weapon.

Not quite... I assume that I will have a gun and a chance to defend myself. I don't expect to become superman, and I don't know any fellow ccw holders that expect to be, either.

Statistically speaking that isn't very likely. There are many things you are much more likely to die from that carrying a gun will do zero to prevent. You could be carrying legally and still die at the hands of some nut with a gun and a will to kill.

Carrying a firearm is a huge responsibility. Everyone likes to think they're as good as Clint Eastwood with a gun but there is a huge difference between poking holes in a paper target at a shooting range and trying to drop someone who is shooting at you. Hell, cops have unloaded entire magazines and not hit a suspect while under pressure. What makes some college kid with a CCW any better under pressure?

I don't know how we sort this all out but I don't think arming the student body is the solution.

 

[waggy]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: daniel1113

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Utah is your best bet then. Although there are about twenty public schools that still allow, as well as a number of private schools.

I find it hilarious someone would limit their education to schools that allow concealed carry. Your choice of institution will impact the rest of your life; a better school will give you different networking opportunities and different employment opportunities.

And what good will those "networking opportunities" mean if you are killed on campus because you couldn't defend yourself? Sure, it's not likely to happen, but I don't see how you could call it laughable.

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Besides, too many gun nuts assume that if concealed carry was allowed, that everyone on campus would run out and get a weapon.

Not quite... I assume that I will have a gun and a chance to defend myself. I don't expect to become superman, and I don't know any fellow ccw holders that expect to be, either.

Statistically speaking that isn't very likely. There are many things you are much more likely to die from that carrying a gun will do zero to prevent. You could be carrying legally and still die at the hands of some nut with a gun and a will to kill.

Carrying a firearm is a huge responsibility. Everyone likes to think they're as good as Clint Eastwood with a gun but there is a huge difference between poking holes in a paper target at a shooting range and trying to drop someone who is shooting at you. Hell, cops have unloaded entire magazines and not hit a suspect while under pressure. What makes some college kid with a CCW any better under pressure?

I don't know how we sort this all out but I don't think arming the student body is the solution.

no. its not the solution.

but i do agree that peopel should have the right to carry.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Utah is your best bet then. Although there are about twenty public schools that still allow, as well as a number of private schools.

I find it hilarious someone would limit their education to schools that allow concealed carry. Your choice of institution will impact the rest of your life; a better school will give you different networking opportunities and different employment opportunities.

Besides, too many gun nuts assume that if concealed carry was allowed, that everyone on campus would run out and get a weapon. Most people still wouldn't. And chances are this incident still would have unfolded exactly as it did even on a campus that allowed handguns. It's not like owning a handgun makes you Robocop, and you could have unloaded a clip into the gunman from across the classroom before he got his shots off. Most would have ran out the classroom regardless of whether they had a weapon or not; self-preservation, because the gunman entering the room with his finger on the trigger had a tactical advantage.

It sure impacted those 5 kids' lives today. If they had been at a University in Utah, New York, or California, they could have defended themselves.

I will agree that it's statistically unlikely to be the victim of a shooting (at a school or elsewhere,) but having been shot at several times myself, it's not about statistics, it's about anecdotes. That one time that it happens will make up for all the time you spent preparing for it to happen. By some of your logic, you're a fool to own a fire extinguisher, or purchase insurance.

Personally I would advocate that those in the 40-something states that don't allow carry on campus do it anyway. If you're doing things right and keeping your weapon concealed, no one will ever know. I carried all 4 years at UT Austin before Texas even had CHLs, and 2 years at UT Dallas doing my masters. Never spotted or suspected.