NIMBYS now kneecapping UC system

[Moonbeam]

Okay so here we have another straw man. As far as I can tell, even if fskimo theoretically supports no limits on build up, there are geological limits. What he has actually said is that allowing another story or two would vastly help reduce housing prices. Try attacking that specific claim instead of the vincible "no limits" you are beating to death.

I agree moonbeams position is also nimby but I don't think he is ignorant of the fact that many people in the world really do prefer living in cities whether are far more things to do, he just doesn't want to make it easier to build where he is so he can keep his lifestyle

I am not saying what you say I am saying. You are right that I do know that some people like living in cities because there is far more to do. The reason I don't want to see more high density living is because I believe that the mentality creates them is the result of a delusional view of who a person is. In the West we are psychologically conditioned to think of ourselves as separate from the world around us, that we are some epiphenomenon taking place within our meat. In the East, there is a greater tradition of self identity, the product of enlightenment that is experienced internally as I though, that the self can't be separated from the context in which it exists. This means that people who know who they are in this way, who experience themselves as being the world are deeply reverent of the world as it is naturally. Their sense of self is to harmonize with the world as it is in nature rather than dominate it.

This is an important psychological difference, one that more and more people today have no awareness of. Picture a tea ceremony in a Japanese garden as opposed to a hotdog on a Manhattan street.

This Western idea of the self, is what I call the ego, the bright light of self that dominates such that the our real self, the self we would be if that false self were to disappear enough so we could actually feel. The notion that we are what we believe ourselves to be rather that something much more miraculous when it comes to being experience is what I refer to as a dominate concealed prejudice that never gets examined because of the depth of the assumption it is the actual reality.

What this means to me, then, is that it is quite natural for people to seek exciting lives because what the deeper reality is is that we are actually emotionally dead, we can't experience the feeling of connection with the universe because of this profound and convincing sense of separation. To be separate, to identify as a separate ego, is why we feel need, why we seek, why we are angry, why we blame. If you could really hear what I am saying you would know your inner pain. But if only somehow you could hear and do something that would bring integration you would not further suffer. This I know to be true. I am sorry how terrible a person that makes me. And while you may think that is just my ego playing the domination game, that I am better than others, I disagree. I got free by a miracle I do not understand but which is there for seekers and likely far more intensely than it was for me. I was a slug that for an instant knew the world is my shell. I will never quite be homeless again. The only reason I have sought to preserve the small gift of a home I have may soon leave this world. This little dew drop world, it may be only a dew drop, and yet and yet.

 

[Moonbeam]

Exactly! Everyone should live where they want.

Your place or mine?

 

[MrSquished]

I am not saying what you say I am saying. You are right that I do know that some people like living in cities because there is far more to do. The reason I don't want to see more high density living is because I believe that the mentality creates them is the result of a delusional view of who a person is. In the West we are psychologically conditioned to think of ourselves as separate from the world around us, that we are some epiphenomenon taking place within our meat. In the East, there is a greater tradition of self identity, the product of enlightenment that is experienced internally as I though, that the self can't be separated from the context in which it exists. This means that people who know who they are in this way, who experience themselves as being the world are deeply reverent of the world as it is naturally. Their sense of self is to harmonize with the world as it is in nature rather than dominate it.

This is an important psychological difference, one that more and more people today have no awareness of. Picture a tea ceremony in a Japanese garden as opposed to a hotdog on a Manhattan street.

This Western idea of the self, is what I call the ego, the bright light of self that dominates such that the our real self, the self we would be if that false self were to disappear enough so we could actually feel. The notion that we are what we believe ourselves to be rather that something much more miraculous when it comes to being experience is what I refer to as a dominate concealed prejudice that never gets examined because of the depth of the assumption it is the actual reality.

What this means to me, then, is that it is quite natural for people to seek exciting lives because what the deeper reality is is that we are actually emotionally dead, we can't experience the feeling of connection with the universe because of this profound and convincing sense of separation. To be separate, to identify as a separate ego, is why we feel need, why we seek, why we are angry, why we blame. If you could really hear what I am saying you would know your inner pain. But if only somehow you could hear and do something that would bring integration you would not further suffer. This I know to be true. I am sorry how terrible a person that makes me. And while you may think that is just my ego playing the domination game, that I am better than others, I disagree. I got free by a miracle I do not understand but which is there for seekers and likely far more intensely than it was for me. I was a slug that for an instant knew the world is my shell. I will never quite be homeless again. The only reason I have sought to preserve the small gift of a home I have may soon leave this world. This little dew drop world, it may be only a dew drop, and yet and yet.

Hmmm. So because I like to walk to a local venue and enjoy reggae one night by a group of diverse dudes including some rastas and tap my feet and really get into the music - and then a week later I can see jazz at another place nearby, and then that week I can also go to a great NPR MOTH story hour event and hear stories from a lot of diverse people and laugh and cry and smile and groan at the amazing variety of human experience, and also in the meantime I can walk to enjoy different foods from all over the world from street to sit down I am lacking in something inside because I enjoy those things more instead of an overly formalized and stiff Japanese tea ceremony where woman are dressed up like dolls? So easy access to live music, great cuisine of all kinds and all levels, great human expression, conversations - these are like street hot dogs to you? What an asinine insane metaphorical comparison and I think really shows you are off the deep end.

I think you need to lay off the sauce buddy.

 

[Moonbeam]

Okay so here we have another straw man. As far as I can tell, even if fskimo theoretically supports no limits on build up, there are geological limits. What he has actually said is that allowing another story or two would vastly help reduce housing prices. Try attacking that specific claim instead of the vincible "no limits" you are beating to death.

This 2-Minute Animation Captures 210 Years of Manhattan Densification

This visualization shows density peak in 1910, slip in the 20th century, then creep upward after 1980.

www.bloomberg.com

Just three stories and then it will stop. I was just looking at a small house in a dump of an area not too far from me. Only 2.3 million in 2020 but today will go for 3. House value 670 thousand or there about. It's is described as a desirable area, all single family with a freeway next door. Great for the kid's asthma. Build three on there and they will all sell for three million, and if everybody in the neighborhood follows suit if the prices drop everything will probably be 6 million in ten years. At least the neighborhood will mostly be Chinese bringing a culture adapt at density living.

Hmmm. So because I like to walk to a local venue and enjoy reggae one night by a group of diverse dudes including some rastas and tap my feet and really get into the music - and then a week later I can see jazz at another place nearby, and then that week I can also go to a great NPR MOTH story hour event and hear stories from a lot of diverse people and laugh and cry and smile and groan at the amazing variety of human experience, and also in the meantime I can walk to enjoy different foods from all over the world from street to sit down I am lacking in something inside because I enjoy those things more instead of an overly formalized and stiff Japanese tea ceremony where woman are dressed up like dolls? So easy access to live music, great cuisine of all kinds and all levels, great human expression, conversations - these are like street hot dogs to you? What an asinine insane metaphorical comparison and I think really shows you are off the deep end.

I think you need to lay off the sauce buddy.

Gosh, I never guessed you would react like that. You mean you wouldn't rather be doing this:

What analogy would you like to express the sense they are lacking something they don't know they are lacking and have found lots of substitutes? You took my words as an attack on your pleasures as if I were saying you don't deserve them. I don't have a thing against what you have. But I think the value we place on things is related to what we get from them. I have heard, for example, that the love we take is equal to the love we make. I also know that some joys are better than others. Could there be a joy you do not see? Is there an itch you cannot scratch, is there any. The sad thing about the possibility of inner poverty is that if it were the case we would never want to admit it. We are tough guys and never weak or small and then one day those big strong hands lose their grip as the Nothing pulls it all away.

 

[Zorba]

Still I think in both cases the real cause is people searching for a value neutral way to excuse their own selfishness. They like the current situation because they get all the profit and pay none of the costs, and so they want it to continue. They don't like mass human suffering any more than we do though so they have to come up with an excuse as to why skyrocketing housing costs are due to something other than a restriction in supply. They have apparently chosen the excuse that nobody wants to live in dense housing anyway so they are saving people from themselves, although recently I've seen movement towards 'it is impossible to lower housing costs anyway so there's no point in trying', which as I mentioned is a similar argument that climate change denialists adopted when they had definitively lost the scientific argument.

You definitely assign a ton of negative motives to people and are really bitter about some people making money on homes.

California is a shit show, but that doesn't mean every person living in a SFH neighborhood that doesn't want their neighbor to turn into a fourplex is only against it because they want to cash in.

A shit ton of areas need to be rezoned, especially in California, but that doesn't mean people are selfless money grabbersbbecause they want their neighborhood to remain the way it was when they bought in. My property would be worth far more as a fourplex than as a SFH and I'm on the edge on the outside edge of the Suburbs. If it was just greediness people would be fighting to expand their own properties while blocking out others.

We need to redevelope areas in a way that supports that good parts of density, especially WRT transportation. Shotgunning apartments miles from infrastructure and each other really doesn't do that although it does help with total units.

 

[fskimospy]

You definitely assign a ton of negative motives to people and are really bitter about some people making money on homes.

I’m not bitter about it at all - it’s put a ton of money in my pocket. I am very sad about the situation though as everyone should be because it’s inflicting massive human suffering.

It is not hard for me to see systems that benefit me personally can also be bad. For example grad school is a giant scam that saddles people with a lifetime of student debt. I personally have no student debt and got my grad degree entirely paid for but just because I’m fine doesn’t mean other people are. Nobody ever accuses me of being bitter about universities making money on grad school though because there aren’t many university administrators on here.

California is a shit show, but that doesn't mean every person living in a SFH neighborhood that doesn't want their neighbor to turn into a fourplex is only against it because they want to cash in.

Of course that’s not the ONLY reason, but giving people a giant financial incentive to do the wrong thing doesn’t help.

A shit ton of areas need to be rezoned, especially in California, but that doesn't mean people are selfless money grabbersbbecause they want their neighborhood to remain the way it was when they bought in. My property would be worth far more as a fourplex than as a SFH and I'm on the edge on the outside edge of the Suburbs. If it was just greediness people would be fighting to expand their own properties while blocking out others.

Selfishness takes more forms than just money. As far as greediness goes though most people don’t have the time or resources to lobby the city council for a zoning variance on their personal home property while excluding everyone else. Speculators and developers can and do often do just what you’re saying though, because when housing is strangled by the government it is a huge financial benefit to get yourself exempted from the suffocating regulations.

It’s funny that people complain about greedy developers doing this while they don’t seem to realize this game only exists because they support restrictive zoning.

We need to redevelope areas in a way that supports that good parts of density, especially WRT transportation. Shotgunning apartments miles from infrastructure and each other really doesn't do that although it does help with total units.

We need to abolish residential zoning and make all residential construction by right. As far as shotgunning apartments miles from infrastructure who is doing that? Let the market decide where the units should go. Here’s a hint: developers won’t build in places nobody wants to live because they would lose money.

 

[MrSquished]

This 2-Minute Animation Captures 210 Years of Manhattan Densification

This visualization shows density peak in 1910, slip in the 20th century, then creep upward after 1980.

www.bloomberg.com

Just three stories and then it will stop. I was just looking at a small house in a dump of an area not too far from me. Only 2.3 million in 2020 but today will go for 3. House value 670 thousand or there about. It's is described as a desirable area, all single family with a freeway next door. Great for the kid's asthma. Build three on there and they will all sell for three million, and if everybody in the neighborhood follows suit if the prices drop everything will probably be 6 million in ten years. At least the neighborhood will mostly be Chinese bringing a culture adapt at density living.

Gosh, I never guessed you would react like that. You mean you wouldn't rather be doing this:

What analogy would you like to express the sense they are lacking something they don't know they are lacking and have found lots of substitutes? You took my words as an attack on your pleasures as if I were saying you don't deserve them. I don't have a thing against what you have. But I think the value we place on things is related to what we get from them. I have heard, for example, that the love we take is equal to the love we make. I also know that some joys are better than others. Could there be a joy you do not see? Is there an itch you cannot scratch, is there any. The sad thing about the possibility of inner poverty is that if it were the case we would never want to admit it. We are tough guys and never weak or small and then one day those big strong hands lose their grip as the Nothing pulls it all away.

I am not sure how in the world you can think that human interactions and expression can't bring people joy and fulfillment. To me humans expressing themselves with story and music and art and food are fantastic things - and the diversity as well. I too enjoy nature. I have gone backpacking - just me, a backpack, my gear, a few people, hike in a couple hours, build a fire and enjoy the woods. I like long walks in the woods with my dog. I will be going canoeing and kayaking again this year. I like nots of natural activities. But to me living in nature for too long would be boring. I could do it with a partner for a couple years maybe, but ultimately I like the joys that the beautiful things humans create can bring. And I like having then nearby, walkable, easy to get to with mass transit, I can imbibe and not worry about driving if it's one of those nights. I enjoy a walk and a short train ride than hopping in a car most of the time. And it's healthier for me and the planet too. Oh the horror! It is a sign of how not at peace I am.

People have issues in their minds and it doesn't matter if you are in a city or a suburb or in a rural area - that may or may not make you feel better or at peace. We are all different. The fact is a lot of people do enjoy what cities offer immensely. I have lived in the burbs, IT WOULD DRIVE ME NUTS to do so again. I am sure some people choose to live in cities because they feel they have to pursue a certain lifestyle and it doesn't give them happiness. And I am sure others pursue living in the burbs getting their McMansion and manicuring their green lawn and having lots of big cars to pursue that lifestyle and it doesn't bring them happiness.

I get great joy from getting off a train and walking home and there is a jazz band playing in an outdoor venue where there is a taco truck owned and run by a mexican family and I grab great tacos on the way home and tap my foot to some sick jazz - I am completely happy and at peace in those moments. I don't like the isolation and lack of options in the suburbs. Sure more space can be nice, it's just not my priority. But if you like that, great for you.

 

[Moonbeam]

I am not sure how in the world you can think that human interactions and expression can't bring people joy and fulfillment. To me humans expressing themselves with story and music and art and food are fantastic things - and the diversity as well. I too enjoy nature. I have gone backpacking - just me, a backpack, my gear, a few people, hike in a couple hours, build a fire and enjoy the woods. I like long walks in the woods with my dog. I will be going canoeing and kayaking again this year. I like nots of natural activities. But to me living in nature for too long would be boring. I could do it with a partner for a couple years maybe, but ultimately I like the joys that the beautiful things humans create can bring. And I like having then nearby, walkable, easy to get to with mass transit, I can imbibe and not worry about driving if it's one of those nights. I enjoy a walk and a short train ride than hopping in a car most of the time. And it's healthier for me and the planet too. Oh the horror! It is a sign of how not at peace I am.

People have issues in their minds and it doesn't matter if you are in a city or a suburb or in a rural area - that may or may not make you feel better or at peace. We are all different. The fact is a lot of people do enjoy what cities offer immensely. I have lived in the burbs, IT WOULD DRIVE ME NUTS to do so again. I am sure some people choose to live in cities because they feel they have to pursue a certain lifestyle and it doesn't give them happiness. And I am sure others pursue living in the burbs getting their McMansion and manicuring their green lawn and having lots of big cars to pursue that lifestyle and it doesn't bring them happiness.

I get great joy from getting off a train and walking home and there is a jazz band playing in an outdoor venue where there is a taco truck owned and run by a mexican family and I grab great tacos on the way home and tap my foot to some sick jazz - I am completely happy and at peace in those moments. I don't like the isolation and lack of options in the suburbs. Sure more space can be nice, it's just not my priority. But if you like that, great for you.

 

[pmv]

We need to abolish residential zoning and make all residential construction by right. As far as shotgunning apartments miles from infrastructure who is doing that? Let the market decide where the units should go.

Though that market is operating in a context where private car travel is, in effect, subsidized. Which is going to lead to developers building those apartments in sub-optimal locations.

I really can't figure out what I think about this topic. Leaving things to "the market" ignores all the non-market factors that continue to have an influence even when you remove planning restrictions.

 

[Moonbeam]

"We human beings see ourselves as something separate from the whole we call the universe. This is actually an optical delusion of our consciousness. It's like a prison for us. Our task is to free ourselves from this prison by (widening) our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty. This striving for such an achievement is a path to our liberation and the only foundation of inner peace and security."

 

[fskimospy]

"We human beings see ourselves as something separate from the whole we call the universe. This is actually an optical delusion of our consciousness. It's like a prison for us. Our task is to free ourselves from this prison by (widening) our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature and its beauty. This striving for such an achievement is a path to our liberation and the only foundation of inner peace and security."

‘We need to expand our circle of compassion. Also, the government must forcibly prevent anyone from living in housing I do not approve of.’

 

[K1052]

Lulz

https://twitter.com/x/status/1503494070110367745

 

[Moonbeam]

‘We need to expand our circle of compassion. Also, the government must forcibly prevent anyone from living in housing I do not approve of.’

You do not approve of the housing I live in so you want the government to pass laws that will insure that I am forced to not be able to live in it, so you can have compassion for only people far far more wealthy than I am who would,
as a consequence of your compassion for them, be the only ones who could now afford it.

All of my interest in this matter goes to reversing prop 13 for people who are currently turtling in their homes as you so compassionately call it, and do so for reasons of the priorities they have set that home is more important than money and would live in those homes until their deaths never realizing a single dime of that so called wealth in equity.

As far as zoning density law is concerned my interest is academic. Children, in my opinion, should experience a closeness to nature as they grow up in order to have a chance to experience who they are. I am as subject as all of us to the laws that are passed by the masses in their sleep.You may love city life and all of it's adult pleasures but you will never convince me that a high rise is a fit environment for a child nor will you convince me that once they are built it will be where millions of children whose parents will have no other choice but be forced to raise them there.

All of the knowledge you have about people and all of you opinions and answers to problems are based on your understanding of people as you find them and how you find them is sick.

We are not alone:

Einstein’s Misquote on the Illusion of Feeling Separate from the Whole

This morning I came across a quote in an excellent essay by Daniel Christian Wahl, frequently attributed to the renowned modern theoretical physicist Albert Einstein. Wahl did not misquote him, but…

www.thymindoman.com

 

[Greenman]

Lulz

https://twitter.com/x/status/1503494070110367745

Isn't that around a hundred million a year in revenue?

 

[MrSquished]

You do not approve of the housing I live in so you want the government to pass laws that will insure that I am forced to not be able to live in it, so you can have compassion for only people far far more wealthy than I am who would,
as a consequence of your compassion for them, be the only ones who could now afford it.

All of my interest in this matter goes to reversing prop 13 for people who are currently turtling in their homes as you so compassionately call it, and do so for reasons of the priorities they have set that home is more important than money and would live in those homes until their deaths never realizing a single dime of that so called wealth in equity.

As far as zoning density law is concerned my interest is academic. Children, in my opinion, should experience a closeness to nature as they grow up in order to have a chance to experience who they are. I am as subject as all of us to the laws that are passed by the masses in their sleep.You may love city life and all of it's adult pleasures but you will never convince me that a high rise is a fit environment for a child nor will you convince me that once they are built it will be where millions of children whose parents will have no other choice but be forced to raise them there.

All of the knowledge you have about people and all of you opinions and answers to problems are based on your understanding of people as you find them and how you find them is sick.

We are not alone:

Einstein’s Misquote on the Illusion of Feeling Separate from the Whole

This morning I came across a quote in an excellent essay by Daniel Christian Wahl, frequently attributed to the renowned modern theoretical physicist Albert Einstein. Wahl did not misquote him, but…

www.thymindoman.com

If everyone that had kids needed to have a suburban home the sprawl and inefficiency in this country would be insane and be non-functional. It's already terrible. I mean it's not even remotely realistic. This is just not how things work.

I have no issue that kids being close to nature can be good. But being in non-diverse cookie cutter suburban neighborhoods isn't all that great for plenty of kids either. I grew up ignorant in many ways being stuck in a white middle class suburban single family town with just a few small apartment complexes. As soon as I could drive and turned 18, I left the suburbs and tried to be there as least as possible. So do many others. It's not so one size fits all as you say.

But at least you admit - you want to FORCE your way of life onto everyone. While I disagree with fskim saying there should be virtually no zoning, I believe there should be far less restrictive zoning, but it should be planned - he is nowhere near as extreme as you are. He is just saying people can do with their land as they want. You are saying - THIS iS HOW EVERYONE MUST LIVE TO START THEIR LIVES.

You are a dictator.

 

[mect]

If everyone that had kids needed to have a suburban home the sprawl and inefficiency in this country would be insane and be non-functional. It's already terrible. I mean it's not even remotely realistic. This is just not how things work.

I have no issue that kids being close to nature can be good. But being in non-diverse cookie cutter suburban neighborhoods isn't all that great for plenty of kids either. I grew up ignorant in many ways being stuck in a white middle class suburban single family town with just a few small apartment complexes. As soon as I could drive and turned 18, I left the suburbs and tried to be there as least as possible. So do many others. It's not so one size fits all as you say.

But at least you admit - you want to FORCE your way of life onto everyone. While I disagree with fskim saying there should be virtually no zoning, I believe there should be far less restrictive zoning, but it should be planned - he is nowhere near as extreme as you are. He is just saying people can do with their land as they want. You are saying - THIS iS HOW EVERYONE MUST LIVE TO START THEIR LIVES.

You are a dictator.

One thing many people don't realize is that dense housing and nature can go extremely well together. When you have dense housing, that leaves more land for green space. Additionally, without the suburban sprawl, kids actually have more freedom to roam. Over in Europe, the public transit is packed with kids (unsupervised) going places. In the US, until you are able to drive, you are almost totally dependent on your parents to get you places, especially since suburban roads are terrible for biking, especially with the big trucks parked all over blocking visibility.

 

[IronWing]

Well, looky here. It turns out the issue wasn't NIMBYs at all. The issues were piss poor planning and a flagrant disregard for the law as written on the part of UC Berkeley. UC lied about their population projections, admitting 10,000 more students than they said they would, while providing no housing to accommodate the students they said wouldn't be coming.

Gov. Newsom signs law that undoes UC Berkeley's enrollment freeze; Cal to admit 19,500 in coming days

Legislation to allow UC Berkeley to admit all the new students it planned to this fall was adopted into law in a single day.

www.berkeleyside.org

 

[fskimospy]

Well, looky here. It turns out the issue wasn't NIMBYs at all. The issues were piss poor planning and a flagrant disregard for the law as written on the part of UC Berkeley. UC lied about their population projections, admitting 10,000 more students than they said they would, while providing no housing to accommodate the students they said wouldn't be coming.

Gov. Newsom signs law that undoes UC Berkeley's enrollment freeze; Cal to admit 19,500 in coming days

Legislation to allow UC Berkeley to admit all the new students it planned to this fall was adopted into law in a single day.

www.berkeleyside.org

The issue was definitely NIMBYs - lol. There are a number of big problems with the law here to any sensible person. The main issue here is that NIMBYs blocked new housing construction in Berkeley using CEQA and then tried to use the same law to cap enrollment because there wasn't enough housing. Perfectly circular reasoning.

This is a good start but not nearly far enough - they need to further amend CEQA to stop situations like this from ever arising. The law was well intentioned when it was written but has since been weaponized by NIMBYs to litigate the state into a humanitarian crisis.

 

[woolfe9998]

My father was an urban planner. After being director of the planning department for several towns around here, he had a private practice representing people who wanted to either build new houses or put up additions to their existing houses. It was NIMBY's all the time. One guy does a huge new addition to his house, then opposes his next door neighbor doing the same thing, just 18 months later. And on and on.

We need intervention of the state government to break this logjam. It can't continue with local control this way or we're never gonna build anything around here.

 

[IronWing]

The issue was definitely NIMBYs - lol. There are a number of big problems with the law here to any sensible person. The main issue here is that NIMBYs blocked new housing construction in Berkeley using CEQA and then tried to use the same law to cap enrollment because there wasn't enough housing. Perfectly circular reasoning.

This is a good start but not nearly far enough - they need to further amend CEQA to stop situations like this from ever arising. The law was well intentioned when it was written but has since been weaponized by NIMBYs to litigate the state into a humanitarian crisis.

The neighbors didn't force UC to admit students they had made no provision for.

 

[fskimospy]

The neighbors didn't force UC to admit students they had made no provision for.

One of the main reasons for their lawsuit was insufficient housing, housing they had blocked when Berkeley tried to build it. Not to mention essentially the citywide ban on apartment construction that was only just removed, etc.

Basically NIMBYs regulated themselves into a housing crisis and are now trying to use that housing crisis to deny a world class education to thousands of students. Glad to see the state government slapped them down but the state can't stop there.

 

[IronWing]

Why looky here! It turns out the that the UC is the low density champion. Look at all the space! UC is trying to dump a problem of its own making on the community instead of building on its own turf.

 

[dank69]

Supremely relevant to this thread:

Y'all may be liberal on most issues, but still acting quite conservative when it comes to this.

 

[IronWing]

Supremely relevant to this thread:

Y'all may be liberal on most issues, but still acting quite conservative when it comes to this.

I keep telling him that but he insists that the interests of the ultra wealthy trump everyone elses'.

 

[fskimospy]

Why looky here! It turns out the that the UC is the low density champion. Look at all the space! UC is trying to dump a problem of its own making on the community instead of building on its own turf.

UC Berkeley has tried to implement numerous new housing projects - NIMBYs blocked them and/or are currently fighting them tooth and nail.