NFL - Are you fed up?

[JS80]

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Haui
Wow! What a season for the NFL, and we are just now in week 2.

I am lost......in between the cheating scandal with the Pat's, the dog fighting case with Vick, and all the other various felonies and screw-ups......welll........is there any dignity left in the sport?

I love the GAME of football. It is one of the most aggressive, challenging, and athletic sports we have around (besides hockey). However, I personally think the NFL league SUCKS. From the crap trash talk from certain players, to cheating, to the way players and coaches handle themselves, the NFL is setting themselves up for a HUGE fall.

I find it insulting that the NFL thinks the fans want to hear about the "crap" about the NFL rather than talking about the game and what not. I remember back when the intermissions and half time shows were about the GAME and how it was/is played. I promise this Sunday, all we will hear about is the Pat's cheating scandal. Does anyone know who Kevin Everett is? This young man was close to dieing, and within a week shows signs that he may walk again....but this WILL not be a top story, or even close to it. It's a shame!

I'm 24....and im THIS CLOSE to giving up on the NFL and sticking strictly to NHL (the game I love the most).

What are your thoughts? I really want to know how you think "crap NFL" will continue to hold.....

I agree with you, but the NFL is so ingrained in the fabric of American society that if it takes a fall - it will have to be something far more dramatic than cheating or felons.

In fact, a lot of Americans respect the Pats for cheating - they see it as a necessary evil to win the game rather than what it really is - a shinning example of what is wrong with sports - moral deficiency.

The problem is you can see examples of moral defiencies in all sports (including hockey)
Ron Artest (any number of things)
Kobe Bryant (Cheating)
McLaren (Cheating)
Mike Bell (DUI)
Marty McSorley (Stick incident)
Dany Heatley (DUI)
etc...

There are very few
Gretzky
Montana
Ripken

of the world.

Didn't Gretzky and his wife run their own private gambling ring?

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: JS80
[

Didn't Gretzky and his wife run their own private gambling ring?

Shhh... the last white man's sport is pure! Pure I tell you!

 

[Haui]

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

Originally posted by: JS80
[

Didn't Gretzky and his wife run their own private gambling ring?

Shhh... the last white man's sport is pure! Pure I tell you!

Don't get me wrong, all the bad things that have happened in hockey has hurt the sport....but it is nothing im comparison to what happens and what is allowed in the NFL.

I agree, Bertuzi should NOT being playing right now....or ever.

Gretzky and his wife nearly put the NFL on thin ice.....and yes, I have NEVER liked the guy. What he did while he played was amazing....but now he feels the NHL owes him and he thinks he can change the NHL to his likings.

400th post! Booyah!

 

[Garet Jax]

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Haui
Agreed! Garrett Jax......football now sucks.....im sticking to hockey. The ignorance of the fan base of the NFL is wide.

While I agree with you in football, I believe the problem is more a reflection of American society and therefore present in baseball, basketball and hockey.

If this weren't a problem with society than most people would be as outraged as you and me with the Pats cheating. Instead, the vast majority of people seem to be making excuses for them

Were you outraged at the Broncos? Were you outraged every time a player has been caught using a banned substance? Were you outraged when teams were caught pumping crowd noise towards the field?

No. I bet you weren't. I bet the Broncos weren't even on your radar. When a bigtime player, for any team, serves a suspension, where is the outrage then? Why is nobody going batshit over the fact that Merriman was suspended four games for using a banned substance the same year he was voted to the Pro Bowl? The same year he changed the outcome of games with a single play.

You're damn right I was. I think the punishment should take into consideration the effect that the cheating had on the game and on the non-affending teams

A four game suspension does nothing to compensate the teams that were negatively affected by the cheating. Wins should be invalidated for the cheating teams and wins should be awarded for the opposing teams. If you do this, then the players, the fans and the teams will be the police for cheating since the punishment is so severe.

This would push the problem to the players, the teams and the fans temas would start to miss playoffs - but no one is willing to do that because it would affect the profitability of the game. This is what frustrates me.

 

[meltdown75]

Originally posted by: Haui
...but now he feels the NHL owes him and he thinks he can change the NHL to his likings.

 

[Capt Caveman]

Every sport has it's bad apples, controversy, scandals, issues, etc. You're fed up with the NFL but not how the NHL has ruined itself to the point where the Little League World Series has a higher television rating than the Stanley Cup.

 

[Garet Jax]

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
Every single Sunday players take the field who have given themselves an unnatural / unfair advantage over their opponents.

I agree with this, but the solution isn't to minimize every example of the problem. The solution is to hit the teams where it hurts the most - on the wins and losses column.

Take away wins where a player, coach, team, trainer, doctor, owner is shown to have cheated. Award losses instead - no matter the score, no matter the outcome.

Once a player has been shown to have cheated, the onus falls on them and their team to prove they are no longer cheating before they can play again.

 

[paulxcook]

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

Originally posted by: paulxcook

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

Were you outraged at the Broncos? Were you outraged every time a player has been caught using a banned substance? Were you outraged when teams were caught pumping crowd noise towards the field?

No. I bet you weren't. I bet the Broncos weren't even on your radar. When a bigtime player, for any team, serves a suspension, where is the outrage then? Why is nobody going batshit over the fact that Merriman was suspended four games for using a banned substance the same year he was voted to the Pro Bowl? The same year he changed the outcome of games with a single play.

I agree with you about the Merriroid incident, I still don't understand why he was welcomed back with open arms after his suspension. Why wasn't he harrassed like McGwire, Sosa, Bonds, etc? But you should really stick to proven incidents like that one to make your arguments.

What unproven incidents am I using? Did I overlook something?

Referring to the piped in noise issue. Not proven. I know it's popular for Colts haters to assume it's true, but nothing was proven. Most likely the person that brought up the whole thing just hadn't been to the RCA Dome before. It's just loud. There's really no reason for piped in noise, and you can't hear anything that comes over the speakers anyway when the crowd is yelling. I have some great memories in the Dome, but it's really a pretty crappy little stadium, I won't miss it much. The NFL didn't find any evidence of wrongdoing, so you can't just throw it out there like it happened and everyone knows it.

As for the Broncos, are you referring to using binoculars to figure out signals?

 

[Garet Jax]

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Every sport has it's bad apples, controversy, scandals, issues, etc. You're fed up with the NFL but not how the NHL has ruined itself to the point where the Little League World Series has a higher television rating than the Stanley Cup.

As I said, the problem isn't the sport, the problem is society.

I wouldn't be surprised if players in the little league world series aren't cheating. It is more important to win than it is to show yourself to be a cheater.

The Olympics have it right - they took away Ben Johnson's gold medal and awarded it to the second place finisher because Ben was caught cheating.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Haui
Agreed! Garrett Jax......football now sucks.....im sticking to hockey. The ignorance of the fan base of the NFL is wide.

While I agree with you in football, I believe the problem is more a reflection of American society and therefore present in baseball, basketball and hockey.

If this weren't a problem with society than most people would be as outraged as you and me with the Pats cheating. Instead, the vast majority of people seem to be making excuses for them

Were you outraged at the Broncos? Were you outraged every time a player has been caught using a banned substance? Were you outraged when teams were caught pumping crowd noise towards the field?

No. I bet you weren't. I bet the Broncos weren't even on your radar. When a bigtime player, for any team, serves a suspension, where is the outrage then? Why is nobody going batshit over the fact that Merriman was suspended four games for using a banned substance the same year he was voted to the Pro Bowl? The same year he changed the outcome of games with a single play.

You're damn right I was. I think the punishment should take into consideration the effect that the cheating had on the game and on the non-affending teams

A four game suspension does nothing to compensate the teams that were negatively affected by the cheating. Wins should be invalidated for the cheating teams and wins should be awarded for the opposing teams. If you do this, then the players, the fans and the teams will be the police for cheating since the punishment is so severe.

This would push the problem to the players, the teams and the fans temas would start to miss playoffs - but no one is willing to do that because it would affect the profitability of the game. This is what frustrates me.

What if two teams have players using banned substances? Both teams lose? What about the Broncos? Do we take away their Superbowl because they violated the salary cap rules? Your ideas are noble, but entirely unsustainable. There would be NO NFL playoffs under your system, teams would finish the season 4 - 3 with 9 'no decisions'. I'd love to think we can make the NFL a 'violations-free' league, but that's impossible. The league would be genuinely dysfunctional.

What we can do is punish actions when they crop up. We cannot, and should not, do this by changing the outcome of games. Yes, players may have violated league rules and gained unfair advantages, but that doesn't mean that the team would have lost the game without that player in. What we can do is punish individuals. The NFL can suspend them. As fans of the sport we can demonstrate how unhappy we are with our players and teams for violating rules.

Right now, when a player gets suspended, I feel there is a 'no big deal' mentality. Nobody bats an eye. It's a cover story for one day (if the player was important) and then it fades as quickly as it came. Merriman is back, being cheered by his team. Harrison will be cheered by Pats fans everywhere when he returns. That should be unacceptable.

I just don't like the idea of altering history. We have no idea what the outcome of the game would have been if X or Y didn't happen. The results should stand, otherwise we walk down a path from which we might never recover.

 

[jandrews]

not really, they are trained to be barbaric gladiators who fight other guys each week and do steroids etc what do you expect?

 

[bignateyk]

Originally posted by: krunchykrome

Originally posted by: jhayx7
NCAA > NFL

That's funny

Funny, but true.

Either way, I :heart: both.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Every sport has it's bad apples, controversy, scandals, issues, etc. You're fed up with the NFL but not how the NHL has ruined itself to the point where the Little League World Series has a higher television rating than the Stanley Cup.

As I said, the problem isn't the sport, the problem is society.

I wouldn't be surprised if players in the little league world series aren't cheating. It is more important to win than it is to show yourself to be a cheater.

The Olympics have it right - they took away Ben Johnson's gold medal and awarded it to the second place finisher because Ben was caught cheating.

The difference between a sprinter a team sport is HUGE. In running / swimming / whatever, you are primarily competing against the clock. The impact your opponents have is minimal (the only way they can 'effect' you is by being in front / behind). Awarding the medal to the second place finisher is reasonable because each participant acts independently. You can't apply the same logic to the NFL.

Plus, kids get caught cheating in the little league ws, look at that pitcher for NY who was really 14, but had a fake birth certificate that said he was 12.

 

[bignateyk]

Originally posted by: Haui
Yea....but how can you compare stupidity in the NHL to cheating and felonies of the NFL?

How about Heatly DUI that kills his teammate. How is that not worse than a few felonies?

 

[Garet Jax]

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
What if two teams have players using banned substances? Both teams lose? What about the Broncos? Do we take away their Superbowl because they violated the salary cap rules? Your ideas are noble, but entirely unsustainable. There would be NO NFL playoffs under your system, teams would finish the season 4 - 3 with 9 'no decisions'. I'd love to think we can make the NFL a 'violations-free' league, but that's impossible. The league would be genuinely dysfunctional.

What we can do is punish actions when they crop up. We cannot, and should not, do this by changing the outcome of games. Yes, players may have violated league rules and gained unfair advantages, but that doesn't mean that the team would have lost the game without that player in. What we can do is punish individuals. The NFL can suspend them. As fans of the sport we can demonstrate how unhappy we are with our players and teams for violating rules.

Right now, when a player gets suspended, I feel there is a 'no big deal' mentality. Nobody bats an eye. It's a cover story for one day (if the player was important) and then it fades as quickly as it came. Merriman is back, being cheered by his team. Harrison will be cheered by Pats fans everywhere when he returns. That should be unacceptable.

I just don't like the idea of altering history. We have no idea what the outcome of the game would have been if X or Y didn't happen. The results should stand, otherwise we walk down a path from which we might never recover.

Two caught cheating = two losses

There would always be playoffs because there are rules to break ties between wins and losses. For a year or two the playoff teams may not be very good, but sooner than later, the teams would catch on and police themselves to make sure they don't lose games over cheating.

 

[Garet Jax]

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
The results should stand, otherwise we walk down a path from which we might never recover.

I believe if we can get cheating out of football (and all sports), that they will flourish more than ever. There may be a year or two of slim pickings for playoffs, but in the interest of winning, all teams would police themselves and get it right quickly.

The only way to correct the cheating problem is to incent the teams and the organizations to police themselves. The only way to achieve this that I can think of is to take away wins and award losses for cheating incidents.

If a league, a player, a fan, a team or anyone is not willing to do that, then they are saying that cheating is OK.

 

[Garet Jax]

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
The difference between a sprinter a team sport is HUGE. In running / swimming / whatever, you are primarily competing against the clock. The impact your opponents have is minimal (the only way they can 'effect' you is by being in front / behind). Awarding the medal to the second place finisher is reasonable because each participant acts independently. You can't apply the same logic to the NFL.

Plus, kids get caught cheating in the little league ws, look at that pitcher for NY who was really 14, but had a fake birth certificate that said he was 12.

If the NFL were policing Ben's race, they would have awarded him the gold and banned him from the next 4 races. If this happened, then it would have incented all runners to take drugs to prepare for the olympics since they could still have won gold (the pinnacle of their sport).

I don't agree with the distinction you make between racing and football. I don't believe it is easy to quantify what Ben taking steroids did to his running time on that day, given all the factors to consider including competitors, weather, fans, etc...

The fact is it doesn't matter, he cheated and he shouldn't have been given a gold medal.

The NE pats cheated and they shouldn't have been awarded the win against the jets.

 

[flxnimprtmscl]

All I know is it's a good thing the NFL pressured ESPN into taking Playmakers off the air. It really did portray the league in an inaccurate light.

 

[hdeck]

Originally posted by: jjones
As long as they keep playing on Sundays, I don't give a shit about all the extra-curricular activities. I'm more interested in the injury reports than any of that other crap.

my thoughts exactly

 

[thepd7]

OP did you watch the first week? It was incredible! Who cares about all that other crap. My Dad was my role model, and if I am not my kid's then there is something seriously wrong with me. Since when do we expect someone else to show our kids what is right and wrong?

 

[vi edit]

Originally posted by: Garet Jax

Originally posted by: BlinderBomber
The difference between a sprinter a team sport is HUGE. In running / swimming / whatever, you are primarily competing against the clock. The impact your opponents have is minimal (the only way they can 'effect' you is by being in front / behind). Awarding the medal to the second place finisher is reasonable because each participant acts independently. You can't apply the same logic to the NFL.

Plus, kids get caught cheating in the little league ws, look at that pitcher for NY who was really 14, but had a fake birth certificate that said he was 12.

If the NFL were policing Ben's race, they would have awarded him the gold and banned him from the next 4 races. If this happened, then it would have incented all runners to take drugs to prepare for the olympics since they could still have won gold (the pinnacle of their sport).

I don't agree with the distinction you make between racing and football. I don't believe it is easy to quantify what Ben taking steroids did to his running time on that day, given all the factors to consider including competitors, weather, fans, etc...

The fact is it doesn't matter, he cheated and he shouldn't have been given a gold medal.

The NE pats cheated and they shouldn't have been awarded the win against the jets.

You are comparing an individual against a team sport. A doping sprinter or Tour De France biker has a direct advantage for doing so.

When you are talking about the actions of one person for a team of 54+ players another 20 or so staff members the actions of that one really get minimized.

A quarterback still has to make throws. A receiver still has to make catches. The kicker still has to kick. The defense still has to tackle. The coach still has to make good decisions and manage the clock.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Haui

Originally posted by: ScottFern
OP is a moron. /thread

And your a fucktard....what of it?

QFP, the banstick is strong with this one.

The NFL has handled all of it's recent scandals very well.

The falcons fired vick, the patriots were fined and lost draft picks, and a HUGE amount of respect.

I dont see where the OP is going with this, besides trolling and name calling.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Haui

Originally posted by: ScottFern
Can someone please let a mod know that the OP won't stop PMing me and calling me a fucktard over and over. Looks like someone is having a roid rage. lol

Let's see....you told me to go KILL myself over PM.......so stop whining...



ScottFern Go away.

ScottFern Yup, any knife or rope to hang yourself will due. bub bye now!

ScottFern Go fucking end yourself. Your just pissed your thread sucks and no one agrees with you. To be hones

QFP

 

[Dedpuhl]

They're just trying to catch up with the NBA...

 

[Nocturnal]

Almost all sports professions have their black eyes. The UFC is dealing with a string of steroid abuse cases, NFL, this, NBA, fighting, off-season arrests, etc. They all have them.