New Zen microarchitecture details

[ShintaiDK]

Right, and OJ didn't do it.

Would someone please explain why they feel ok buying intel after seeing everything they've done, because right now it's pretty obvious that the reason people still buy intel is that they don't care what companies do at thier expense.

I am sorry for the off topic, but I believe the uarch is irrelevant as intel will dominate the market even if amd were to make 2x better cpu and had a competent BOD. Thus amd would not be able to afford to engineer a competitive cpu the next go around.

We wouldn't be able to buy AMD after all they have done of illegal activities and unethical behavior either. So what should we all buy, VIA? Hah! No I think its better people buy the best thing that the market offer for them

 

[itsmydamnation]

Did you note the clock?

Also you should check the actual voltage on retail parts.

Thax for confirming exactly what i said, i also have 2 retail parts, how many do you have? guess where both mine are at stock () (hint 1.375). AMD is going to ship max voltage parts on A0, it gives them the most usable dies. it also completely throws out perf watt comparisons.


I also note how you ignored my other point completely, so how about you try again......


its funny how vested you are in AMD failing.

 

[ShintaiDK]

I just confirmed retail parts run above that. Zen is low clocks, high relative power draw.

And nothing you have posted points to that A0 should be any different than later retail parts. Only confirming that they will be in line.

 

[USER8000]

I just confirmed retail parts run above that. Zen is low clocks, high relative power draw.

No you haven't - you just made it up in your head. If you have not,can you show us the ES desktop samples you have access to??

Or its an Engineering sample, you know the ones for testing and validation of platforms. Would you bin Engineering sample's you send out? Im guessing not you just run them at a high voltage to get maximum number of full dies and start sharing them.

So im sure you have comparable ~A0 engineering sample data from other CPU's when you made your analysis....... care to share

I believe I might have read it here(probably),but there are actually many classes of ES samples which are made for different validation purposes.

 

[USER8000]

These are the relevant posts off that forum:

It seems that unlike with Bulldozer, AMD has created separate dies for server and consumer parts. The server version of the die has twice the cores, L3 cache and additional I/O controllers per die. I haven´t been able to disassemble one yet, however judging from the package size it is a MCM part. 14nm LPP process.

The relative power consumption is roughly the same as on Intel 14nm parts with similar configuration, but the clocks are quite low :/

40501415

For a long time I actually like what I see. I´d say as long as the consumer Zen parts can reach high enough clocks (min. 3.5GHz), everything will be pretty good

So,the part apparently observed is a larger die server part and not the consumer parts people are actually more interested in.

We don't know what the part is rated at with regards to TDP. If it is an early validation sample with 32 cores for example and a 95W TDP it might not be a very high clocked part - but there is not enough information as the poster,if they are not lying,has to protect themselves too.

 

[Glo.]

Lets think about it for a second.
8 core Zen CPU running at 95W TDP at 3.5 GHz core clock.
8 Core Broadwell-E Running at 3 GHz and 140W.
Impossible?

Let it even run at 3 GHz, and you still win with Broadwell in terms of efficiency. However, here come the posts from Thevenin and Fottemberg. Fott said that Efficiency will be on par with Broadwell. So it may very well be 2.5 GHz 8 core CPU with 95W TDP.

Now everything is on place.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Right, and OJ didn't do it.

Would someone please explain why they feel ok buying intel after seeing everything they've done, because right now it's pretty obvious that the reason people still buy intel is that they don't care what companies do at thier expense.

I am sorry for the off topic, but I believe the uarch is irrelevant as intel will dominate the market even if amd were to make 2x better cpu and had a competent BOD. Thus amd would not be able to afford to engineer a competitive cpu the next go around.

Well, I dont buy a product to make some kind of moral statement. I buy the best product available for my needs. If you want to somehow twist that into morality, do you think it is the right thing to do to support an inferior product? Reverse evolution I guess, survival of the unfit.

It is nice though that you are so perceptive that you can ascertain the motives of all the millions of people that buy intel. Maybe you should go on the Tonite Show or something, get rich and donate the money to AMD, since they seem incapable of making a significant profit.

 

[USER8000]

Lets think about it for a second.
8 core Zen CPU running at 95W TDP at 3.5 GHz core clock.
8 Core Broadwell-E Running at 3 GHz and 140W.
Impossible?

Let it even run at 3 GHz, and you still win with Broadwell in terms of efficiency. However, here come the posts from Thevenin and Fottemberg. Fott said that Efficiency will be on par with Broadwell. So it may very well be 2.5 GHz 8 core CPU with 95W TDP.

Now everything is on place.

That would be an 8C/16T part with no IGP. So,if they disabled half the cores to make it a 4C/8T in the same 95W TDP,they should be able to increase clockspeeds.

 

[Glo.]

That would be an 8C/16T part with no IGP too. So,if they disabled half the cores to make it a 4C/8T in the same 95W TDP,they should be able to increase clockspeeds too.

Or make 45W quad core CPU with 2.5 GHz base clock with turbo states.

 

[USER8000]

Or make 45W quad core CPU with 2.5 GHz base clock with turbo states.

True,but for the enthusiast parts,they would be looking at increasing clockspeeds.

I suppose it depends on how refined the Turbo boosting technology is??

 

[Glo.]

I am starting to ask myself, how much I will benefit from higher core clocks on lower amount of cores, compared to higher amount of cores and lower core clocks in a world of low-level APIs and multithreading.

Pretty interesting times are coming, I have to say, if everything turns out to be reality.

 

[CHADBOGA]

Right, and OJ didn't do it.

Would someone please explain why they feel ok buying intel after seeing everything they've done, because right now it's pretty obvious that the reason people still buy intel is that they don't care what companies do at thier expense.

I am sorry for the off topic, but I believe the uarch is irrelevant as intel will dominate the market even if amd were to make 2x better cpu and had a competent BOD. Thus amd would not be able to afford to engineer a competitive cpu the next go around.

Whilst I think your appeals to morality are utterly ludicrous, are there other products I need to be applying the Moralistic Geiger Counter to before I can buy them and sleep well at night?

What if I want a camera, who is the Great Satan amongst Camera makers I need to avoid?

If I want to buy a car, who is the Great Satan amongst Car makers I need to avoid?

If I want to buy an expensive bicycle, who is the Great Satan amongst Bicycle makers I need to avoid?

I would be spending much more money on the above than on a CPU or GPU.

So why is it that only for CPU's and GPU's is there this childish nonsense about "morals" being discussed?

 

[Silverforce11]

I know that Intel used to play dirty, they got fined for it and paid their dues. Are they still playing dirty these days?

 

[Vortex6700]

Well, I dont buy a product to make some kind of moral statement. I buy the best product available for my needs. If you want to somehow twist that into morality, do you think it is the right thing to do to support an inferior product? Reverse evolution I guess, survival of the unfit.

It is nice though that you are so perceptive that you can ascertain the motives of all the millions of people that buy intel. Maybe you should go on the Tonite Show or something, get rich and donate the money to AMD, since they seem incapable of making a significant profit.

1) It's not about morals, it's about getting worse tech in 10 years because you suppirted a trust. Imagine if in the 70's people stayed with ibm because thier system had better performance. The only vote you will ever make that counts is with the dollar.

2) I don't like AMD. I wish there was another option (VIA contracts intel) but lazy and irresponsible consumers and regulators kind of ruined that for me.

Whilst I think your appeals to morality are utterly ludicrous, are there other products I need to be applying the Moralistic Geiger Counter to before I can buy them and sleep well at night?

What if I want a camera, who is the Great Satan amongst Camera makers I need to avoid?

If I want to buy a car, who is the Great Satan amongst Car makers I need to avoid?

If I want to buy an expensive bicycle, who is the Great Satan amongst Bicycle makers I need to avoid?

I would be spending much more money on the above than on a CPU or GPU.

So why is it that only for CPU's and GPU's is there this childish nonsense about "morals" being discussed?

1) I'm not some portlandian crying about free range chicken. Is not about right vs wrong. It is about what will happen if we choose to allow stifling of innovation for medeocre advantage at present.

2) Imagers would be sony, but hikvision just jumped in the charts.

3) Cars have quite a bit of competition. The NHTSA isn't a manufacturer, but they are the ones retarding innovation.

4) I have never bought a bicycle, but this stuff is pretty easy.


It's not that hard to be a responsible consumer, so the only explanation that still holds is frozen's. You just don't care.

There has to be a better reason than that.

 

[richaron]

Whilst I think your appeals to morality are utterly ludicrous, are there other products I need to be applying the Moralistic Geiger Counter to before I can buy them and sleep well at night?

What if I want a camera, who is the Great Satan amongst Camera makers I need to avoid?

If I want to buy a car, who is the Great Satan amongst Car makers I need to avoid?

If I want to buy an expensive bicycle, who is the Great Satan amongst Bicycle makers I need to avoid?

I would be spending much more money on the above than on a CPU or GPU.

So why is it that only for CPU's and GPU's is there this childish nonsense about "morals" being discussed?

^ dude tries to use reductio ad absurdum whilst completely failing the absence of evidence != evidence of absence test.

And I'll throw you a bone so you can spout some more rubbish in reply:
We do in fact have have evidence on the initial subject. You know, the subject this forum is based on, on which we all have an interest; unlike everything else you listed.

I pity the world where morals don't come into daily life and daily choices.

 

[CHADBOGA]

^ dude tries to use reductio ad absurdum whilst completely failing the absence of evidence != evidence of absence test.

And I'll throw you a bone so you can spout some more rubbish in reply:
We do in fact have have evidence on the initial subject. You know, the subject this forum is based on, on which we all have an interest; unlike everything else you listed.

I pity the world where morals don't come into daily life and daily choices.

You are saying I should be outraged over the equivalency of someone getting busted for jaywalking.

It is a faux moral outrage.

 

[CHADBOGA]

1) It's not about morals, it's about getting worse tech in 10 years because you suppirted a trust. Imagine if in the 70's people stayed with ibm because thier system had better performance. The only vote you will ever make that counts is with the dollar.

2) I don't like AMD. I wish there was another option (VIA contracts intel) but lazy and irresponsible consumers and regulators kind of ruined that for me.




1) I'm not some portlandian crying about free range chicken. Is not about right vs wrong. It is about what will happen if we choose to allow stifling of innovation for medeocre advantage at present.

2) Imagers would be sony, but hikvision just jumped in the charts.

3) Cars have quite a bit of competition. The NHTSA isn't a manufacturer, but they are the ones retarding innovation.

4) I have never bought a bicycle, but this stuff is pretty easy.


It's not that hard to be a responsible consumer, so the only explanation that still holds is frozen's. You just don't care.

There has to be a better reason than that.

The "sins" you cite are trivial and only poseurs try to beat it up into being a serious moral issue.

 

[USER8000]

For the love of Jebus nobody cares in a Zen thread about what happened 10 years ago - what this has got to do with a Zen thread I have no clue??

I am starting to ask myself, how much I will benefit from higher core clocks on lower amount of cores, compared to higher amount of cores and lower core clocks in a world of low-level APIs and multithreading.

Pretty interesting times are coming, I have to say, if everything turns out to be reality.

It would be nice to have a competitive CPU from AMD again!

 

[Vortex6700]

For the love of Jebus nobody cares in a Zen thread about what happened 10 years ago - what this has got to do with a Zen thread I have no clue??


It would be nice to have a competitive CPU from AMD again!

You answered your own question.


I.e. Assuming that zen is competitive in performance, what bleeding edge and near future tech could be easily implelnted in it if, hypothetically, there was a company with a proven track record of preventing amd from benefiting enough to raise r&d?

 

[mysticjbyrd]

I know that Intel used to play dirty, they got fined for it and paid their dues. Are they still playing dirty these days?

Paid their dues?! That's not how it works.

Small fines don't do anything to stop corporations from behaving a certain way. If it's cheaper to dump toxic waste in the river, and pay the fine when they get caught, than it is to dispose of it properly, then that's exactly what they are going to do!

 

[frozentundra123456]

Well, since intel is still in business, dominating the market, and not facing any legal action that I know of, apparently that *is* how it works. You may not like it, but that does not change the facts.

 

[ElFenix]

WHAT DOES ANY OF THIS STUFF ABOUT INTEL'S BUSINES PRACTICES HAVE TO DO WITH AMD'S ZEN PROCESSOR


stick to the thread topic instead of discussing intel's (perhaps) former cheating past.

 

[AtenRa]

If it is MCM then its not a different die but the same desktop die 2x times.

It seems that unlike with Bulldozer, AMD has created separate dies for server and consumer parts. The server version of the die has twice the cores, L3 cache and additional I/O controllers per die. I haven´t been able to disassemble one yet, however judging from the package size it is a MCM part. 14nm LPP process.

The relative power consumption is roughly the same as on Intel 14nm parts with similar configuration, but the clocks are quite low :/

40501415

 

[deasd]

If it is MCM then its not a different die but the same desktop die 2x times.

An assumption.
A die that different than desktop = more than 8 cores(16 cores?)
MCM = 16 cores * 2 = 32 cores (with 64 threads)

 

[Erenhardt]

I just confirmed retail parts run above that. Zen is low clocks, high relative power draw.

I know my english is poor. But how does:

The relative power consumption is roughly the same as on Intel 14nm parts

Translate to "High power draw".

Reading too much into it. The only info we did get is: Zen is preping for release. Motherboards are being designed, which indicates we are 6-9 months from release.

Some marginalize AMD position, think it has no chances. Why do you even care? Some already know it is slow and power hungry. The balance is saved. Why even bother?