New poll shows that voters trust the GOP more than Democrats...

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Phokus

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Phokus
See who is more trusted if conservatives get around to eliminating social security and sticking with free market care. Even if you do gain power, you will never be able to govern as a Reaganesque conservative.

Yes lets not mod SS at all so it crashes later. Nor should we keep the things that work in our healthcare system and just rush to let the govt run everything.

For all of Bush's faults, it was good that he abandoned his SS privatization initiative. Imagine if he had succeeded, do you even understand how badly you would've lost in '08?

Do you understand that it would have affected virtually no one? No one would have been forced into and no one would have sustained any larger losses than what they did in their 401ks. SS + private account is still a good idea.

For young people SS still remains a big waste of their money.

I and a lot of others sustained fairly big losses in my 401k and i was very well diversified in the funds i chose

Whether or not the social security privatization was forced or voluntary, the democrats would've hammered the hell out of the GOP if they got away with the plan, given the dive in the stock market.

So now youre resorting to attacking the GOP on what could have been?

/boggle

I can't believe people argue this "If SS was privatized my money would be gone." When we make investments whether into mutual funds or stocks or bonds or even that 0.25% interest in our pathetic savings account, there's a risk. Social Security is a complete fraud for people like me who might retire when the system is beyond bankrupt. I suspect the only way to keep it afloat is to start reducing payouts or increasing the age eligibility for benefits. Someone's going to suffer one way or the other, and getting 1% returns on my investment is NOT my idea of a good retirement plan.

Privatizing SS is a way of allowing workers to take control of their OWN money. It was once viewed as a safety net, but without a true fund, this is just a sorry excuse for our government to collect more taxes.

But overall I would be ok if SS was a true safety net, but now it's just sucking up my own funds. Pay as you go is never a true solution. I'd be more happy if I contributed every month like my 401k into a government account where I can login and watch my funds grow. Even if I can only select what T-Bond I want to invest in I would be a bit happier.

Are we even getting a 100% payout of what we put in with SS? I mean if I'm putting in say $200k in my whole lifetime, am I getting that $200k back? Or is this another one of those I'm paying for your retirement bullshit?

 

[quest55720]

People are just finally figuring out both parties are corrupt and generally suck. I hope the people vote for gridlock in 2010. Give the Republicans enough seats to make sure congress and this corrupt government can't do anything. The best we had it is when we had split government during the Clinton years. Since then it has been a disaster thanks to 1 party control.

 

[jonks]

Originally posted by: dali71
Fast forward to the Rasmussen poll from 2 days ago, which shows voters trusting Republicans more than Democrats on 8 of the 10 key issues. Health Care and Education, the 2 issues Democrats are trusted more on, showed marked improvement by Republicans.

If I may paraphrase JS80, this poll only proves that people trust democrats more on these issues.

 

[Beattie]

Originally posted by: DLeRium
Are we even getting a 100% payout of what we put in with SS? I mean if I'm putting in say $200k in my whole lifetime, am I getting that $200k back? Or is this another one of those I'm paying for your retirement bullshit?

Depends on how long you plan on living, but the expectation is that on average it is worth like 2-4% over what you paid in.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Originally posted by: Beattie

Originally posted by: DLeRium
Are we even getting a 100% payout of what we put in with SS? I mean if I'm putting in say $200k in my whole lifetime, am I getting that $200k back? Or is this another one of those I'm paying for your retirement bullshit?

Depends on how long you plan on living, but the expectation is that on average it is worth like 2-4% over what you paid in.

If social security worked as intended it would be just like an annuity, and the issurer would ultimately generate surpluses (like profits for private ins co's that sell annuities). And this is exactly how SS worked for many years after it's inception, the problem came when the surpluses became large enough to be irresistable to greedy polititions facing budget shortfalls in other areas.

So they enacted legislation (Social Security Act of 1965) to include SS in the general fund making the surpluses available for general spending. And once the cookie jar was opened the rest is history, when faced with tough decisions between raising taxes or cutting spending they did neither and just took more out of the cookie jar. The only thing that brings SS's future solvency into question is the goverments ability to repay what they have "borrowed" from the SS fund over the decades.

 

[OCGuy]

That is why I think the people who come out on forums and say "Republicans are done" must be extremely young or are just now getting into politics.

Im only 25 and I can remember when the Dems were in ruins just a few years back. Michael Moore was even getting boo'd in HOLLYWOOD. All they had to do is let the (R)s screw some things up, and now they are back.

 

[Red Dawn]

After the previous 8 years the only thing I trust the Republicans with is to completely fuck things up. Might feel the same about the Dems after 8 years of them being in power.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Originally posted by: OCguy
That is why I think the people who come out on forums and say "Republicans are done" must be extremely young or are just now getting into politics.

Im only 25 and I can remember when the Dems were in ruins just a few years back. Michael Moore was even getting boo'd in HOLLYWOOD. All they had to do is let the (R)s screw some things up, and now they are back.

In general I agree the history of our two party system shows that power enevitably shifts between the two partys over time, but for the current foreseeable future the dems have the strong upper hand and I think it will stay that way until the repubs reinvent the party.

The dems have always been the champions of the "blue collar" middle class, working class poor and minorities, while repubs have been the party of big business. The dems constituants have always out numbered those of the repubs but have been kept from total power by a couple of factors.
1. The repubs ability to pull a large chunk of the middle class during times of prosperity
2. The dems constituants lower income, disconnection from the system and historically lower voter turnout than the reps.

The reason I believe the rebups will have a hard time coming back this time?
1. Because of stagnation of incomes over the last decade compounded by the recent economic crash the dems constituants have grown in ranks while the repubs have slipped.
2. Improved communication and infrasturce have improved and will continue to improve the "enfranchisement" of the lower classes
3. The last eight years have soured the middle class (which is so vital to the repubs) and many have switch to the dems

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: senseamp

Originally posted by: dali71

Originally posted by: senseamp
Time to take care of healthcare and education then.

Since the October poll, the Democrats lead on health care has dropped from 20 points to 4 points, and their lead on education has dropped from 19 points to 3 points. It appears that it is indeed being taken care of.

Poll Shmoll. Dems won the only poll that matters, Presidency, House, and Senate.

Good thing another one is right around the cornet.

Yeah, I am sure the country is just clamoring for more Republican control and mismanagement.

Well it looks like the polls are trending that way.

And then what? You can put Republicans in charge again, result will be the same. Still big, but more poorly managed government.

So far, it appears they are more mismanaged, but time will tell.

So Republicans are gonna run on platform of bringing back the levels of mismanagement of 2000-2006?

 

[dali71]

Cherry picking? No, not quite. The polls I linked show Republican trust steadily trending upward. Believe what you will, but be prepared for a shock at the polls if the Democrats stay on their current path.

This thread is gonna be funny after the next election. SOMEBODY will be eating crow in the forum lol

Necroed for vindication

 

[theeedude]

You can necro it again in 2012 for this:

And then what? You can put Republicans in charge again, result will be the same. Still big, but more poorly managed government.

 

[dali71]

You can necro it again in 2012 for this:

 

[JSt0rm]

lmao I got a pm from Dali to come eat crow. I'm sorry this issue has kept you up for the past year and some, you can be free now child.


just remember...

 

[BoberFett]

Ugh, thread bumping.

 

[Craig234]

A Rasmussen poll from October 2008 found voters to trust Democrats more than Republicans on 10 of 10 key issues. A Rasmussen poll from May 2009 showed voters trusting Democrats more on 5 of 10 key issues, while being tied on abortion. I posted a link to an analysis of the upward trend in a Phokus thread on the demise of the Republican party, but no one cared to comment on it. Fast forward to the Rasmussen poll from 2 days ago, which shows voters trusting Republicans more than Democrats on 8 of the 10 key issues. Health Care and Education, the 2 issues Democrats are trusted more on, showed marked improvement by Republicans. I'm glad to see that buyer's remorse is finally kicking in among the people.

So, the #1 huge disaster for the country we hear from the right the people are all against by Democrats, their healthcare bill, is one of two issues the public still prefers Democrats over Republicans, who have always opposed the bill since the Democrats pushed it, on?

Little inconsistency on your chin.

 

[dali71]

So, the #1 huge disaster for the country we hear from the right the people are all against by Democrats, their healthcare bill, is one of two issues the public still prefers Democrats over Republicans, who have always opposed the bill since the Democrats pushed it, on?

Little inconsistency on your chin.

That was posted over a year ago, so you're an idiot. Here's the latest poll:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/trust_on_issues

 

[dali71]

And then there's the exit poll where 59% of voters want Obamacare repealed:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...n_night/election_night_2010_exit_poll_results

 

[dainthomas]

And then there's the exit poll where 59% of voters want Obamacare repealed:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/pub...n_night/election_night_2010_exit_poll_results

Where's the poll that asks people what health care reform did? Are people really that against insurance companies spending premiums on health care and not dropping people who get sick? I find that hard to believe, so the only logical explanation is ignorance.

 

[Amused]

Where's the poll that asks people what health care reform did? Are people really that against insurance companies spending premiums on health care and not dropping people who get sick? I find that hard to believe, so the only logical explanation is ignorance.

See? Now this is why people consider the left arrogant and elitist. When people don't agree with your position, your automatic assumtion is that they are too stupid to understand.

It is this same elitist attitude that has doomed the current administration. Rather than ever reflect on their own opinions, they automatically fault the opnions of others and call them stupid.

 

[dainthomas]

See? Now this is why people consider the left arrogant and elitist. When people don't agree with your position, your automatic assumtion is that they are too stupid to understand.

It is this same elitist attitude that has doomed the current administration. Rather than ever reflect on their own opinions, they automatically fault the opnions of others and call them stupid.

OK, let's forget everyone else for a moment. Which of those two provisions I mentioned do you dislike and why?

 

[fskimospy]

OK, let's forget everyone else for a moment. Which of those two provisions I mentioned do you dislike and why?

The primary source of opposition is that people want to drop the individual mandate.

The primary source of support is insuring people with pre-existing conditions.

The American people want mutually exclusive things, similar to how they want more spending, lower taxes, and lower deficits. This is because the American people don't actually have a clue as to what they want. Amused's indignation is both funny and sad, because what he's so mad about is absolutely true. People frequently take incredibly stupid positions and then get mad for being informed of it.

Oh, and the idea that the current administration is 'doomed' is pretty silly. Ask Clinton and Reagan how that turned out. (if you talk to Reagan be careful, he's likely a zombie.)

 

[wayliff]

Ahhh yes - a poll of 1000 people must mean all the US wants the same.

Nothing like any wing sided media to feed the 'truth' to those who cannot think for themselves.

 

[Amused]

OK, let's forget everyone else for a moment. Which of those two provisions I mentioned do you dislike and why?

I dislike government control of private industry.

 

[thraashman]

I dislike government control of private industry.

So you're saying that you like the financial collapse that occurred due to reckless behavior by financial firms. You're saying that you like the largest oil spill in the nation's history destroying the Gulf. You're saying you liked Bernie Madoff bilking thousands of people out of their life savings. You're saying you like child labor. You're saying you like unsafe conditions. You're saying you like The Jungle style meat reaching our markets. You're saying you like insurance companies denying claims because it would lose them money and letting people die. You're saying you like drug companies releasing unsafe products.

I could keep going, but you might get my point by now. That point being that government control and regulation is the only reason crappy situations like this don't exist. We still get some of these even when the regulation is decreased or slacks off as evidenced by our latest problems in the economy. Private industry has proved again and again that if left to regulating itself, IT WON'T! So either you like an anarchistic hellhole, or you're an idiot. I'm guessing the latter.

 

[her209]

I dislike government control of private industry.

Do you like private industry control of government?