New desktop version of Carrizo for FM2+

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Abwx

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2011
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#51
So not only this chip is currently largely available at around 50€ but there s also a 2C version, at 36€...

Whatever the critics that s nice from AMD to release an up to date APU for an older plateform.

https://geizhals.de/?cmp=1958228&cmp=1954910

Also it s stated that it s compatible with A58, A68H, A70M, A78, A88X chipsets, i ve seen some A68M bios updates that point to the thing being just a question of manufacturers willingness to update the other chipsets firmwares.
 
Aug 11, 2016
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#52
So not only this chip is currently largely available at around 50€ but there s also a 2C version, at 36€...

Whatever the critics that s nice from AMD to release an up to date APU for an older plateform.

https://geizhals.de/?cmp=1958228&cmp=1954910

Also it s stated that it s compatible with A58, A68H, A70M, A78, A88X chipsets, i ve seen some A68M bios updates that point to the thing being just a question of manufacturers willingness to update the other chipsets firmwares.
If only ASRock update their A88X boards, mine with a8-7680 would be good to be handed down to my relative.
 
Apr 21, 2017
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#53
If only ASRock update their A88X boards, mine with a8-7680 would be good to be handed down to my relative.
What's currently sitting on the board?

There are some older gen nice 65W APUs like the A10-7860k. Also Athlon 845 should be plentifully available and cheap.

It seems generally MSI updates only their newest boards. Gigabyte is decent on updates. Never tried asrock. I tried Asus and though their FM2+ bios was absolute **** (their am3+ boards were nice though).
 

whm1974

Diamond Member
Jul 24, 2016
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#54
What would be the point of releasing a new APU based on an outdated design and for an outdated socket?
 
Dec 31, 2013
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#55
What would be the point of releasing a new APU based on an outdated design and for an outdated socket?

Not everybody is in the USA or western Europe with money to burn. I am sure people in some places see this stuff as being in their budget and have good performance for the money.
 
Apr 21, 2017
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#57
Not everybody is in the USA or western Europe with money to burn. I am sure people in some places see this stuff as being in their budget and have good performance for the money.
I'm pretty happy about the extended platform support. fm2 has been a good budget platform and it's nice it's a long lived one too.

I would say even in the US it makes sense. DDR3 laptops are breaking down in masses and the one thing that's easily salvagable is the RAM (using sodimm to desktop adapters) and possibly the hdd. If you have a compatible board it's a no brainer. If not, it's still a decent option; new (and refurb?) a68 boards are still available and around $45.

With the 45w ctdp option, it also is good for matx sff builds (no itx boards afaik). Got mine in the mail; the cooler is very lightweight; they really skimped on the aluminum, but at least they used an 80mm fan which should help with the noise (which was typical in their 70mm cooler fans). It comes in white and red bare basics themed box; same box as in AM4 BR APUs.
 
Dec 31, 2013
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#58
I'm pretty happy about the extended platform support. fm2 has been a good budget platform and it's nice it's a long lived one too.

I would say even in the US it makes sense. DDR3 laptops are breaking down in masses and the one thing that's easily salvagable is the RAM (using sodimm to desktop adapters) and possibly the hdd. If you have a compatible board it's a no brainer. If not, it's still a decent option; new (and refurb?) a68 boards are still available and around $45.

With the 45w ctdp option, it also is good for matx sff builds (no itx boards afaik). Got mine in the mail; the cooler is very lightweight; they really skimped on the aluminum, but at least they used an 80mm fan which should help with the noise (which was typical in their 70mm cooler fans). It comes in white and red bare basics themed box; same box as in AM4 BR APUs.

I have an AM1 board and cpu that is a 4 core Kabini Jaguar cpu25 watt TDP if I am not mistaken. It has been a long time. Would this be a good option for an upgrade? I mostly watch YouTube videos in my garage while outside. Play MP4's and the likes.
 
Apr 21, 2017
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#59
I have an AM1 board and cpu that is a 4 core Kabini Jaguar cpu25 watt TDP if I am not mistaken. It has been a long time. Would this be a good option for an upgrade. I mostlt watch YouTube videos in my garage while outside. Play MP4's and the likes.
It's really unfortunate that AMD has not done the same thing for AM1. I would think they could offer an Athlon X2 cpu on AM1 using Stoney with disabled igpu (AM1 used pre GCN so doubtful they could run 3rd gen GCN on it). Maybe the numbers of AM1 boards are so limited that they aren't bothering with it, or maybe it's just techically impractical to package Stoney on AM1.

For people unfamiliar with fm2+ please make sure with retailer that the board you are ordering is updated with the latest bios (and compatible with this new A8) before attempting a new build. If you have an old fm2 APU you can also flash the bios yourself.

To answer your question, if it were me, i would just keep the 4c jaguar and use it as a bare basics www desktop (for mom?) and build something modern.
 
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Dec 31, 2013
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#60
It's really unfortunate that AMD has not done the same thing for AM1. I would think they could offer an Athlon X2 cpu on AM1 using Stoney with disabled igpu (AM1 used pre GCN so doubtful they could run 3rd gen GCN on it). Maybe the numbers of AM1 boards are so limited that they aren't bothering with it, or maybe it's just techically impractical to package Stoney on AM1.

For people unfamiliar with fm2+ please make sure with retailer that the board you are ordering is updated with the latest bios (and compatible with this new A8) before attempting a new build. If you have an old fm2 APU you can also flash the bios yourself.

To answer your question, if it were me, i would just keep the 4c jaguar and use it as a bare basics www desktop (for mom?) and build something modern.

I have a bunch of A88 FM2+ boards but I guess they won't due. One is a Gigabyte ITX which would be ideal to use. The A68H boards are all pretty crappy looking tbh.
 

jpiniero

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2010
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#61
Not everybody is in the USA or western Europe with money to burn. I am sure people in some places see this stuff as being in their budget and have good performance for the money.
The problem is that (as I mentioned) Dozer is seriously not competitive, especially given the power draw.

Case in point in Cinebench R15:
i3 8130U 140/~329
A12 9800 95 / 304

You should be able to buy a cheeseball laptop for 350, 400 bucks fully equipped with Windows 10 (if you want that). And that's just one example, I'm sure you could do better for relatively cheap.
 

Abwx

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2011
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#62
That s the score of the 35W 3.1GHz 9800E..

https://www.computerbase.de/2018-09/amd-athlon-200ge-test/2/#diagramm-cinebench-r15

Beside the point of this SKU is an upgrade of the UVD capabilities up to HEVC, as well as availability of a full ISA since Carrizo support instructions up to AVX2, actually it s more future proof than a Pentium, lol...

For whom has a compatible FM2+ MB that s a convenient update, or if one has enough DDR3 to populate a rock bottom priced A68H MB...

If only ASRock update their A88X boards, mine with a8-7680 would be good to be handed down to my relative.
Guess that they prefer to sell new A68H based MBs since they are still produced...

OTT this SKU score favourably against the 200GE in Passmark, quite an obscure bench but it should be relevant for an AMD vs AMD comparison.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/AMD-A8-7680-vs-AMD-Athlon-200GE/3384vs3325

Given the ST score this seems to be mainly Integer based, wich is still somewhat more relevant for general usage than FP benches..
 
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Apr 27, 2000
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#63
What would be the point of releasing a new APU based on an outdated design and for an outdated socket?
Only thing I can really think of is that AMD still has some 28nm wafer supply. They might make a little more money this way instead of paying a penalty not to take the wafers from GF. Also if it's based on Carrizo/Bristol Ridge then it may have 1/2 speed FP64. That's useful for a small niche of people that might want to try running cheap APU clusters for FP64 OpenCL workloads. That's a stretch though.
 
Apr 21, 2017
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#64
Sorry, synthetic FPU benches aren't typically that relevant. The dozer will outperform the i3 mixed and int multicore and outclass the i3 in GPU loads.

Also, we're talking putting together budget builds for a budget platform (fm2+), given freely available components that may be on hand.

(If you're building totally from scratch, then yes I don't advise going fm2+, even with the new A8, because the upgrade path is not there, and the risk of getting an older board without the new bios which would cause extra work.)
 
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Jul 24, 2016
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#65
Sorry, synthetic FPU benches aren't typically that relevant. The dozer will outperform the i3 mixed and int multicore and outclass the i3 in GPU loads.

Also, we're talking putting together budget builds for a budget platform (fm2+), given freely available components that may be on hand.

(If you're building totally from scratch, then yes I don't advise going fm2+, even with the new A8, because the upgrade path is not there, and the risk of getting an older board without the new bios which would cause extra work.)
This is the best and biggest argument against buying/building a cheap system with this APU. A Ryzen 2200G or the i3 -8100 would be much better system and will last longer as folks are using their system for more years before upgrading.
 
Aug 11, 2016
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#66
What's currently sitting on the board?

There are some older gen nice 65W APUs like the A10-7860k. Also Athlon 845 should be plentifully available and cheap.

It seems generally MSI updates only their newest boards. Gigabyte is decent on updates. Never tried asrock. I tried Asus and though their FM2+ bios was absolute **** (their am3+ boards were nice though).
You can read on my sig. It's Athlon 845. But I don't want my family deal with reliability issue, so having iGPU is really helpful.
 
Oct 19, 2013
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#67
FM2+ weirdly still makes sense because DDR3 RAM is really easy and cheap to come by. In addition, the CPU and modernish I/O is most definitely enough for 90% of users and 8GiB of DDR3 is perfect for them.

I did a new FM2+ build last year (before the zen Athlon came out) with an Athlon X4 845 because DDR4 was and still kind of is expensive. Re-used most parts and just purchased a motherboard, CPU, RAM, and graphics card. Total cost was like $150 to upgrade an old Phenom X4 9450 machine and was well worth it. I also could have cut down the cost even more by using an APU but I prefer using nVIDIA cards due to their longer driver support; plus, the Athlon X4 845 was the only chip at the time with Excavator uarch.
 
May 6, 2012
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#68
I have an AM1 board and cpu that is a 4 core Kabini Jaguar cpu25 watt TDP if I am not mistaken. It has been a long time. Would this be a good option for an upgrade? I mostly watch YouTube videos in my garage while outside. Play MP4's and the likes.
Depending on your budget, at this point, I'd say bite the bullet and go AM4 with Athlon 200GE. Since you're watching youtube, the VP9 support is a nice add-on. Neither Carrizo nor Bristol Ridge has hardware support, but rely on shaders to decode VP9. It shouldn't draw much more power then your current AM1 system, if you pair the 200GE with an ITX board.

Downside is needing new DDR4, but you only need a single DIMM, since the Zen memory controller wrings almost as much bandwidth from a single DDR4-2666 DIMM, CR/BR does from a dual channel configuration. Just make sure you get a dual rank DIMM.

FM2+ weirdly still makes sense because DDR3 RAM is really easy and cheap to come by. In addition, the CPU and modernish I/O is most definitely enough for 90% of users and 8GiB of DDR3 is perfect for them.

I did a new FM2+ build last year (before the zen Athlon came out) with an Athlon X4 845 because DDR4 was and still kind of is expensive. Re-used most parts and just purchased a motherboard, CPU, RAM, and graphics card. Total cost was like $150 to upgrade an old Phenom X4 9450 machine and was well worth it. I also could have cut down the cost even more by using an APU but I prefer using nVIDIA cards due to their longer driver support; plus, the Athlon X4 845 was the only chip at the time with Excavator uarch.
Count me in as a budget 845 fan. If you have some older DDR3 laying about, it's a perfect budget upgrade from older Athlon/Phenom systems.

Have two 845 systems running, and a couple more for the F&F segment.
 

NTMBK

Diamond Member
Nov 14, 2011
8,112
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#69
Only thing I can really think of is that AMD still has some 28nm wafer supply. They might make a little more money this way instead of paying a penalty not to take the wafers from GF. Also if it's based on Carrizo/Bristol Ridge then it may have 1/2 speed FP64. That's useful for a small niche of people that might want to try running cheap APU clusters for FP64 OpenCL workloads. That's a stretch though.
The compute density of that would be terrible, and you are paying for motherboard, RAM, storage, and the CPU for each not-very-large GPU. I can't see any situations where that really makes sense.

Unless you literally already have 16GB of DDR3 lying around, I can't see the argument for building a Carrizo system. Bristol Ridge may cost slightly more (with DDR3 vs DDR4), but it gets you into an AM4 platform that in the future will let you upgrade all the way to a Ryzen 3000 (which may be available with 16 cores at some point). Whereas FM2+ lets you upgrade to sod all.
 
Apr 27, 2000
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#70
The compute density of that would be terrible, and you are paying for motherboard, RAM, storage, and the CPU for each not-very-large GPU. I can't see any situations where that really makes sense.
Only if you had FM2+ systems already, but no Bristol Ridge/Carrizo chips to use in them. Like I said, it's a stretch.
 
Aug 12, 2016
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#71
Only if you had FM2+ systems already, but no Bristol Ridge/Carrizo chips to use in them. Like I said, it's a stretch.
Could be a customer out there with a bunch of FM2 systems, who needs replacement CPUs for some reason.
Or somebody found a warehouse full of old motherboards, and this lets them slap together a bunch of budget systems?
Maybe it's a super cheap change to make, so it's worth it even if they only sell a few thousand.
 
Sep 18, 2011
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#72
The A8-7680/A6-7480 is probably selling a lot more.

The A8-7600(KV(00-50)/GV(70))/A6-7400(KV(00-50))/GV(70)) was pretty successful in internet cafes in some countries.

<$200 for a new A8-7680/A6-7480 machine from OEMs.
or $44(OEM)/$55(Retail) for a CPU upgrade.

or >$200 for a new Athlon 200GE machine from OEMs.

A10-9700 => 2016-2017 lots from GlobalFoundries
A8-7680 => 2H 2018 lots from GlobalFoundries.
 
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Apr 21, 2017
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#73
The A8-7680/A6-7480 is probably selling a lot more.

The A8-7600(KV(00-50)/GV(70))/A6-7400(KV(00-50))/GV(70)) was pretty successful in internet cafes in some countries.

<$200 for a new A8-7680/A6-7480 machine from OEMs.
or $44(OEM)/$55(Retail) for a CPU upgrade.

or >$200 for a new Athlon 200GE machine from OEMs.

A10-9700 => 2016-2017 lots from GlobalFoundries
A8-7680 => 2H 2018 lots from GlobalFoundries.
Was 2018 the last year of production or might they still be produced this year?

Mobile demand for BR has probably come to a halt. They seem to be getting replaced by SR and RR. With Picasso about to be released there seems to be no more advantage to these in mobile.

There is still Ataribox order but the binning on that part is so low that the yield for that part would be about 100%. The numbers are so limited they can maybe be produced just from stockpile.

I'm wondering what percentage of the dies need to disable a module because of defect or inability to meet cutoff frequency.

Also, what is the % of die are:
elite bin (top A12 models)
top bin (512SPs models or well binned mobile 384SPs A10's)
average bins (like the AM4 A10 or the equivalent A8-7680)
bottom bins (A8-9600, dual cores)

I am guessing most of the elite and top bins have made it to the mobile (9720p to 9620p); only few to AM4 which is apparent from the high retail $ and scarce availability.

If BR is phased out in mobile, I am hopeful we will see a shift to AM4 production (and 35W BGA parts) and finally see the A12-9800 priced competitively (~$75), a 512SPs A10 slightly under $70 (with cpu at 3700-4000MHz), A8 at $50, A6 under $40, and an A4 at $35.
 
Sep 11, 2013
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#75
This is the thing, over here "the cheapest thing that can run Fortnite" is very popular thing. And since you cant run Fortnite on 4GB/200GE the A6-7400K with 8GB DDR3 dual channel is still happening. The question will be if the A6-7480 can match the A6-7400 in price while providing better performance with DDR3-1600 rams.
 


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