New desktop version of Carrizo for FM2+

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

NostaSeronx

Platinum Member
Sep 18, 2011
2,219
34
106
#26
AMD would need to refresh AM1 to support all the extra features from Stoney. It is more likely to get A320'AM4s to support Stoney Ridge. If not APU onboards with the FT4 socket as it has existing demand. The a9-9425, a6-9225, a4-9125 are most if not all used for FT4 onboards in desktops.

The general cost calculated by me... would be $30 to $50, mobo+apu. Technically, at that point it can be subscription serviced. Pay $50 a year, get a new APU onboard every two years!
 
Last edited:

Shivansps

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
2,344
132
126
#27
Troughts? AMD overstock at its best as always... I still have no idea of were all those dirt cheap A4-6300 are coming from. Neither i had of those A4-4000 that were avalible until a few weeks ago.

They probably sitting on top of a lot of unsold 28nm... But at least it is a good idea anyway due to DDR3 prices, if the APU
price is right.
 

Shivansps

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
2,344
132
126
#28
Because A68H (not A68..) is the most recent and that it s likely the only one still manufactured for legacy support, A88 as well as Kaveri seems to be no more produced if we are to look at those APUs prices, so Carrizo can perfectly fit as legacy FM2+ APU support, moreover due its ISA being the most extended of all AMD APUs..
Thats correct, A68H are the only ones still produced. And you can get them for less money than an A320, H110 or H310.

Full W7 support is also a BIG THING.

Not to mention, DDR3 vs DDR4 prices.

So at least is usefull.

Carrizo-L is just Kabini/Beema in disguise, besides no Stoney Ridge can match an Athlon 5350/5370 in Cinebench FI, there were no follow on because it was cancelled due to some despicable anti competitive practices that were the Intel s contra revenues that targeted specifically this segment and CPU.
They were cancelled because they were awfull and no one wanted one.
Originally designed to target ultra-mobile and tablets, they got crushed by Bay Trail in power/temperatures while only offering an small lead in CPU perf and significant in GPU.

They repurposed them as desktops chips in an attempt to make some money out of that failed APU, and it went wrong. And this last thing was said to me by an AMD rep, it was OK on some parts but AM1 was so bad worldwide that they just pulled the plug.

It was not hard to see why, Skylake Celerons just crushed them in CPU/IGP, AM1 IGP was limited to SC, that was the last nail in the coffin.
 
Last edited:

hojnikb

Senior member
Sep 18, 2014
517
12
91
#29
AMD would need to refresh AM1 to support all the extra features from Stoney. It is more likely to get A320'AM4s to support Stoney Ridge. If not APU onboards with the FT4 socket as it has existing demand. The a9-9425, a6-9225, a4-9125 are most if not all used for FT4 onboards in desktops.

The general cost calculated by me... would be $30 to $50, mobo+apu. Technically, at that point it can be subscription serviced. Pay $50 a year, get a new APU onboard every two years!
What kind of features ?
 

Abwx

Diamond Member
Apr 2, 2011
8,750
76
126
#30
They were cancelled because they were awfull and no one wanted one.
Originally designed to target ultra-mobile and tablets, they got crushed by Bay Trail in power/temperatures while only offering an small lead in CPU perf and significant in GPU.
Not at all, even perf/watt wise they were globally better than Baytrail..

https://www.hardware.fr/articles/921-6/consommation.html

Keep in mind that they disabled the Lan on the Baytrail mobo to save 1W, lol, on the other hand not only the AM1 MB Lan wasnt disabled but it use an additional chip for more Sata ports as well as an additional chip to increase the USB ports number...

The lower power of the Celeron is due to the lower throughput, you can do the maths knowing that 10% less perf increase perf/watt by an equivalent amount...

The only current downside of this plateform is that it s not up to Bristol Ridge/Stoney Ridge when it comes to the UVD, albeit most of those news features are generally, if not always, useless.

As for this FM2+ Carrizo it should perform like an Athlon 200GE and sometimes even better with some softwares, for comparison the Excavator based A10 9800E is clocked at 3.1GHz :

https://www.computerbase.de/2018-09/amd-athlon-200ge-test/2/#abschnitt_benchmarks_in_anwendungen
 

amd6502

Senior member
Apr 21, 2017
351
33
61
#31
What kind of features ?
I assume GPU features added since Jaguar/Kabini (gcn 1.1 to gcn 1.2) similar to features added to fm2+ by this new A8.

You're pretty wrong re AM1 connection to mobile cat APUs. Carrizo-L and Beema quads were actually very impressive.

I was stranded earlier this year having to use a dual core bay-trail and it was awful (though wattage and battery life was good to impressive). I'd have gladly traded for a quad or even dual core puma.

Puma APUs lacked availability from OEMs due dumping/flooding of atoms (as Abwx pointed out). Not a single Beema or Cz-L (puma) APU made it to AM1. I'm guessing most made it to mobile and the rest all-in-ones (or other bga oem desktops) and few to mini or file servers and embedded.

They are very small die APUs, probably half the size or less of the main A-series. Pretty decent for 2014 budget mobile and much needed at the time of Kaveri which was more desktop than mobile oriented.
 

Shivansps

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
2,344
132
126
#32
Small dual cores were crap, both AMD and Intels. You need at least 4 cores if you run small cores, otherwise windows will slow down to a crawl.

Not at all, even perf/watt wise they were globally better than Baytrail..

https://www.hardware.fr/articles/921-6/consommation.html

Keep in mind that they disabled the Lan on the Baytrail mobo to save 1W, lol, on the other hand not only the AM1 MB Lan wasnt disabled but it use an additional chip for more Sata ports as well as an additional chip to increase the USB ports number...

The lower power of the Celeron is due to the lower throughput, you can do the maths knowing that 10% less perf increase perf/watt by an equivalent amount...

The only current downside of this plateform is that it s not up to Bristol Ridge/Stoney Ridge when it comes to the UVD, albeit most of those news features are generally, if not always, useless.

As for this FM2+ Carrizo it should perform like an Athlon 200GE and sometimes even better with some softwares, for comparison the Excavator based A10 9800E is clocked at 3.1GHz :

https://www.computerbase.de/2018-09/amd-athlon-200ge-test/2/#abschnitt_benchmarks_in_anwendungen
Not enterely true, Bay Trail uses less power because it has lower perf and less features? YES, but thats what make them unsuitable for what they were designed for, if Bay Trail would have never existed, they would have been a success, and AM1 may have never existed.

Look, i have cheap chinese Z3735F tablet, you know what it uses for cooling? a paper thin aluminium sheet that covers the PCB, it mantains 1582mhz ACT CPU only turbo, CPU+IGP it goes back to 1333mhz.
Im still using it, it is quite impressive for what it is... when was new the battery lasted around 6 hours depending on use, CPU perf is similar to a 1300mhz Sempron 3850 and IGP performs petty much like an E-350 bobcat. PSU is a 9v 2000ma.
Kabini could not compite with that... yes it had more features and performance, but Bay Trail had just enoght performance to make it irrelevant.

not to mention the Z3735F rival was the Temash A4-1200, im petty sure NONE of the Temash could perform better than the Z3735F that was the slower Atom for tablets.
Temash was a dissaster, and Kabini ran on low clocks, except for the top 2, that allowed Intel to re-gain the market that was lost to Bobcats with Bay Trails.

Thats why they had to launch it on desktop were:
1) They had no room, FM2 was covering the low end well with A4-4000, A4-6300, A4-7300 and A6s.

2) Single Channel killed IGP performance even compared to the slowest SKL Celeron.


AMD kinda fixed most of this with Carrizo-L and Stoney Ridge, but Intel improved a lot as well.


As for this A8-7680, for gaming its going to be better for sure, in some cases the 200GE losses to the A6-9500... CPU perf its going to be close, but the bad ST is what kills it.
At any rate, 4C, cheap MB, cheap rams and W7 w/32bit support are the most important points.
 
Last edited:

NostaSeronx

Platinum Member
Sep 18, 2011
2,219
34
106
#33
What kind of features ?
- HDMI 2.0
- x2 NVMe support
- PCIe 2.0 to PCIe 3.0
AM1 only used first gen GF28A aka Bhavani/Puma. While Beema/Mullins is Puma+ and Carrizo-L is Puma++(Catamount). There is some added power considerations because of the new APM used.

A68H(FM2+) uses the new modules, however AM1 never got the new power/voltage modules.
 
Last edited:

amd6502

Senior member
Apr 21, 2017
351
33
61
#34
- HDMI 2.0
- x2 NVMe support
- PCIe 2.0 to PCIe 3.0
AM1 only used first gen GF28A aka Bhavani/Puma. While Beema/Mullins is Puma+ and Carrizo-L is Puma++(Catamount). There is some added power considerations because of the new APM used.

A68H(FM2+) uses the new modules, however AM1 never got the new power/voltage modules.
Ok so a big chipset upgrade. So, with the old power modules of AM1, would you guess that this pretty much excludes likelyhood of Stoney Athlon x2's on AM1?
 

hojnikb

Senior member
Sep 18, 2014
517
12
91
#35
I mean, all the features are not a big dealbreaker honestly, since nvme and pcie3 are not really relavent for stoney ridge type setups, the only feature that would make sense is hdmi 2.0.

So, other than some power modules being possibly incompatabile with stoney, i see no reason why it shouldnt be ported over to am1. AM1 platform doesn't even have a chipset, its pretty barebones
 

amd6502

Senior member
Apr 21, 2017
351
33
61
#36
I like that but if the power modules are incompatible it might be impossible. And maybe stoney might not do ddr3 (like carrizo). so it could be impossible. i like the idea of socketed cheap low wattage itx boards. but the whole point of a socket is choices. on am1 there are no choices because all quadcores are sold out and it hasn't been updated with choices in almost 5 years.
 
Last edited:

Shivansps

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
2,344
132
126
#37
I like that but if the power modules are incompatible it might be impossible. And maybe stoney might not do ddr3 (like carrizo). so it could be impossible. i like the idea of socketed cheap low wattage itx boards. but the whole point of a socket is choices. on am1 there are no choices because all quadcores are sold out and it hasn't been updated with choices in almost 5 years.
Why you even want AM1? no one is producing boards anymore, just let that sin against nature die, please. SR may come to desktop as soldered ITX boards, but the fact is, as they are still selling them in mobile so there is no need. Desktop is always the trash bin of this kind of stuff (and AM1 was just a world record trash bin).

OEM are finishing dumping remaining Kabinis intro desktop, Gigabyte already got rid of remaining E2-3800 stock and they are now dumping the last remaining E2-3000 intro market. Ill have to ask them whats next.
 

ET

Senior member
Oct 12, 1999
480
6
81
#38
And maybe stoney might not do ddr3 (like carrizo).
Stoney has DDR3. See for example this (though a completely similar brochure with DDR4 is on Lenovo's site) and this (which is from Lenovo's site). Interesting that these are desktops, but I assume they use FP4.
 
Apr 27, 2000
10,507
356
126
#39
I kind of want Stoney Ridge to die as well. The sooner AMD clears out all the old Con core dice, the better.

DDR3 compatibility is not that big of an issue.
 

Shivansps

Platinum Member
Sep 11, 2013
2,344
132
126
#40
Yes please stop with this nonsence, i can accept, to a point, a cheap quad core FM2+ and by cheap is $60 TOPS. Because paired with a A68H board and DDR3 you still get something around the lines of the 200GE that is faster for 720p gaming.

But small cores, specially dual core small cores that are virtually unusable just need to die already...

And OEMs are not interested in DDR3 that much either... otherwise they would have produced DDR3 H110 again.
 
Mar 10, 2004
28,058
128
126
#41
Yes please stop with this nonsence, i can accept, to a point, a cheap quad core FM2+ and by cheap is $60 TOPS. Because paired with a A68H board and DDR3 you still get something around the lines of the 200GE that is faster for 720p gaming.

But small cores, specially dual core small cores that are virtually unusable just need to die already...

And OEMs are not interested in DDR3 that much either... otherwise they would have produced DDR3 H110 again.
I think they did just that:

https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/H310M-DS2V-DDR3-rev-10#kf
 
Aug 25, 2001
42,469
236
126
#42
Wow, NICE! I'm definitely interested in a few of those boards. Coffee Lake i3-8100 quads, running on cheap DDR3, would just be the ticket for some entry-level modern browser boxes.

(Chances are, they could swap out current mATX board/CPU, transplant DDR3 memory and SATA SSD, and get rolling on new i3-8100 plus this board, right away. Great upgrade opportunity, without the extreme cost of DDR4 and an NVMe SSD.)

Edit: I hope that this board receives US distribution, and not just India.
 

hojnikb

Senior member
Sep 18, 2014
517
12
91
#45
Well finally someone realised there is tons of people with old cpus and a lot of DDR3 ram out there. A shame it only has two slots :(
H310 only supports 4 ranks, so that usually means boards with 2 ram slots.
 

SPBHM

Diamond Member
Sep 12, 2012
4,733
18
106
#46
Coffe Lake works fine with regular DDR3, it's weird that we haven't seen more boards with DDR3 given the ram prices and long upgrade cycles;

i5 8400 + H310 + old DDR3 sounds like a perfectly good upgrade for people stuck on PII/Nehalem/Sandy Bridge without the need for new ram.
 
Jun 5, 2002
162
7
101
#47
H310 only supports 4 ranks, so that usually means boards with 2 ram slots.
How is chipset affecting anything memory-related with cpus with integrated memory controllers? This is pure artificial limit from Intel for cheap-class chipsets.
 

amd6502

Senior member
Apr 21, 2017
351
33
61
#48
only two RAM slots are common. You see the same on fm2 budget boards.

A68 and similar are just for ultra budget (especially low wattage SFF builds) and as such I'm perfectly happy with two slots (and it's all I need to salvage the RAM from my broken kaveri laptop). If you want slap together 16gb home servers or workstation you have lots of alternatives on the used market, including A78, AM3+, dumped xeon servers with boards that take regular unregisterd memory, the list goes on.
 
Last edited:

hojnikb

Senior member
Sep 18, 2014
517
12
91
#49
How is chipset affecting anything memory-related with cpus with integrated memory controllers? This is pure artificial limit from Intel for cheap-class chipsets.
Of course it's a artificial limitation, just like anything else really (like overclocking etc...)
 

ET

Senior member
Oct 12, 1999
480
6
81
#50
If you want slap together 16gb home servers or workstation
At least for myself I was talking about upgrading an old PC with 4x4GB DDR3. Without a motherboard with 4 RAM slots and modern CPU support, there's not much that's really a cost effective upgrade.

Luckily DDR4 RAM prices are going down, but it still seems a shame to waste a good DDR3 RAM kit.
 
Last edited:


ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS