NBA is no more

[the DRIZZLE]

The biggest issue here is that the collective greed of both the owners and the players creates an untenable situation across the league. Sure, the NY Knicks or LA Lakers aren't going to have problems filling their stadiums, and it has nothing to do with the success of the team (as evidenced by Knicks attendance over the past decade). But a team like Charlotte or New Orleans? Even if they were good (and they're not), you're not getting the ticket sales that you see in a major market, and you're certainly not getting the same prices (can you imagine people in Charlotte paying 5 figures for a courtside seat at a mid-season game?). In a normal economy, this means that teams from smaller markets have less money, which means they can't spend as much, which means their teams are worse, which means that you don't have the parity that you'll see in other leagues (NFL primarily) that actually makes things exciting. Couple that with high-profile moves by major stars to play with one another, and teams outside of New York, LA, Miami, Dallas, Chicago or Boston are basically fucked (with an interesting exception in Oklahoma City and, formerly, San Antonio).

The answer to that problem is revenue sharing, which small market owners want, but everyone else seems adamantly opposed to. The players and owners aren't interested in crafting a league that is more exciting with potential for any team to be successful, they're solely interested in getting as big a slice of the pie as possible. And in the end, they're just fucking themselves out of money without realizing it.

The problem with revenue sharing is that there is no incentive for the small market owners to spend the money on better talent. They are better off putting the money in their pocket because putting a better team on the court isn't a profitable decision. (otherwise they would already be doing it.) Because of this luxury taxes are in theory more effective at leveling the playing field.

 

[Wordplay]

i know you're being sarcastic but....
first and foremost, i'm most concerned about local business.
secondly, the non-star players are the ones that will be suffering.
those that don't have alt means of income like endorsements.

League minimum the past year was almost half a million dollars. I don't think that is suffering.

The average person is not going to pay as much for a ticket to see random people from the street as they will to see LeBron James or Dwyane Wade. "You want me to pay $10,000 for courtside tickets to a game that I could watch last week at the park for free? You are out of your god damn mind."

Shit for me it would be "You want me to pay $10k to sit court side to watch Lebron play? You are out of your fucking mind."

This is millionaires vs billionaires so they both can suck it.

 

[NeoV]

small market has nothing to do with the problems in the NBA - it's about who has the star players - look at the Cleveland Cavaliers with and without LeBron - with him - they sell out every game - home and road - despite being a small market - without him - well their attendance in ticket sales was still high last season because in a dick move they made season ticket holders renew before 'the decision'...

Oklahoma City - tiny market - sellout every home game - Durant



Revenue sharing isn't the problem here - it's never been the main issue, it never will be.

 

[purbeast0]

Besides, watching average joes play would probably be far more entertaining than watching so-called (overpaid) "professionals" play it any day. Hell, I've watched some pickup games at the park that were pretty damn good.

lol

 

[DrunkenSano]

The players and owners don't deserve anywhere near the money they have been earning. They all need to come off their high horse.

 

[purbeast0]

The players and owners don't deserve anywhere near the money they have been earning. They all need to come off their high horse.

why don't they deserve it, if they are the ones generating even more than they are getting paid/making?

 

[preslove]

San Antonio is a small market. Detroit is a small market. NY is the biggest market, and they haven't been deep-playoff competitive in a long time, and it's been even longer they since won a title.

Dallas BEAT Miami and it's dream team.

The nba is not unbalanced. It's just that nba teams tend to dominate for several years, and there are only so many titles to go around. Dallas, San Antonio, Miami, Detroit, L.A., and Boston have won all won titles recently.

It's not competitive like the current NFL, but it's a completely different game.

 

[tboo]

I have to be honest. I could care less about the NBA.

 

[Patranus]

I have to be honest. I could care less about the NBA.

So you must mis it a lot.

 

[puffff]

no way that's true.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/po...s-decertify-what-happens-to-current-contracts

it's a possibility, but it would be a court ruling as well

 

[ElFenix]

so... why don't the players make their own league?

 

[MagickMan]

Good, I look forward to watching it spiral down the crapper. Good riddance.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Good, I look forward to watching it spiral down the crapper. Good riddance.

Spoken like a true Cavs fan.

 

[Baked]

so... why don't the players make their own league?

Obviously if they had a leader w/ half a brain, there wouldn't be a lockout in the 1st place. And AFAIK, you're gonna need a leader w/ half a brain to start a league.

 

[MagickMan]

Spoken like a true Cavs fan.

Huh? I've not enjoyed NBA BB since Jordan retired. It's been a steaming pile of shit since then.

 

[dougp]

Huh? I've not enjoyed NBA BB since Jordan retired. It's been a steaming pile of shit since then.

That's funny, because a lot of the rules that are in place are because of him. Also, a lot of the players model their games after him and thus play pretty similar. Maybe you should try watching the Thunder when they're back around - they're a pretty damn gifted team that are just a vet or two away from making a good run.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

Huh? I've not enjoyed NBA BB since Jordan retired. It's been a steaming pile of shit since then.

I's a Chicago guy myself, and last year was one of the best all around NBA seasons to date. The NBA did have quite a lull in the late 90s and early 2000s, but the last several years it has been on the upswing, and last year was truly fantastic! I can not wait for the Heat, Bulls, Magic rivalry to continue, plus the Knicks, Nets, and Pacers show promise as well as several quality teams in the West. There are also many exciting players to watch again, no matter which team you like.

Unfortunately there are still too many small teams that can't compete, and have to give away their talent to free agency too soon. All these idiots running and playing the games should realize they are all in this together, contract out 2-4 teams, and make free agency true tenure goal (7 years), as well as split the money evenly among everyone. That way the smaller teams could have talent and nice stadiums too, so anyone anywhere could go have a good time at a game. It's hard to fathom that this league has been around so long and has still not figured this out.

 

[HendrixFan]

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2010/32/basketball-valuations-11_New-York-Knicks_328815.html

From this link you can see how much money teams have made or lost over the last 10 years. Of course they have used "fancy" accounting to try and act like teams are losing money, but you can see most teams are doing well. Certainly over a ten year timeframe the league is in pretty good shape.

Going through the teams histories, you will see a clear correlation between payroll and profit/operating income. When salaries balloon way beyond the soft cap profit goes down or negative. Teams that run below the cap usually turn a decent profit. The luxury tax makes it hard to make money and spend alot above the cap, though some owners don't really care to make owning an NBA team their "day job". Losing money to win isn't a concern.

You also have the problem of crappy owners who couldn't really afford a team going into debt to purchase one. They are big pushers of the lockout as they NEED their team to make money for them. You also have Dan Gilberts of the world who are willing to sabotage the season in order to exact revenge on players that left them for greener pastures. All the while, you have great owners like Mark Cuban who are trying to actually bring forth great ideas and build the league during this process who are unable to gain traction.

At the very core of this labor dispute is that the owners and commissioner have mismanaged the league. They have over expanded and are paying the price with teams like New Orleans who can't find a buyer at an overinflated price, but the NBA refuses to allow it to be sold at a more reasonable price in order to keep other teams' valuations higher. The players are the product, and they have collectively delivered quite well in recent years. Unlike a decade ago, the NBA is full of marketable stars who play the game the right way and stay out of trouble off the court. If the owners don't know how to capitalize on such a great run of players, then that is on them. Monetizing basketball isn't and shouldn't be the players responsibility.

With the lockout it is clear that the owners wish to make the players pay for the mistakes they have made. The players are being asked to make financial concessions to balance the books all while the NBA is riding high on popularity. See the disconnect? Why aren't the owners working to find new ways to market and promote the league? The players have already given up 7% of revenue for perpetuity. That $200M or so is for year after year and adds up to billions of dollars over time. But even that is not enough, because guys like Gilbert are trying to restrict player control on where they play. It simply isn't as much about money to some owners.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

the NBA should just fire all the uncooperative/unreasonable players and start afresh with new ones, not unlike in The Replacements (although that was just a pro football strike, not bball lockout)

at anyrate its not the owners or players that people should care about, its all the tertiary business that benefits from games, ie the vendors and local economy that receives a boost as money moves during the games

 

[Cuda1447]

This should be good, very good, for the NHL. What are we going to watch this winter after football season ends.... HOCKEY!!! YAY!!!

 

[Cuda1447]

the NBA should just fire all the uncooperative/unreasonable players and start afresh with new ones, not unlike in The Replacements (although that was just a pro football strike, not bball lockout)

at anyrate its not the owners or players that people should care about, its all the tertiary business that benefits from games, ie the vendors and local economy that receives a boost as money moves during the games

Please correct me if I'm wrong... I hear this argument all the time, but logically I think to myself "well, if people didn't spend their discretionary income on basketball, they will just find something else to spend it on. They won't horde it just because there is no bball".


Am I wrong?

 

[vi edit]

Please correct me if I'm wrong... I hear this argument all the time, but logically I think to myself "well, if people didn't spend their discretionary income on basketball, they will just find something else to spend it on. They won't horde it just because there is no bball".

Many stadiums are in less than residential/upscale residential areas and the vendors around them (bars, restaurants, ect) only get traffic because of the games. People don't go out of their way to go to those areas or bars otherwise. Those businesses are hurt. Same with hotels. I've gone up to a couple Bulls games in Chicago. I live in downstate IL and stay overnight in hotels when we do that. Same with a lot of other people that hit baseball/basketball/football games. They make a weekend out of it and put a little extra money into the pockets of the city they travel to.

With no games I keep that money local. Somebody else profits while the lockout teams takes a serious hit to their normal revenue.

 

[vi edit]

As for my opinion, this whole situation was entirely botched by the raging ego's of Stern and Billy Hunter. Both of those guys are nothing more than self serving shysters and have completely fumbled the negotiating between sides.

 

[OILFIELDTRASH]

I guess it's really starting to sink in that there isn't going to be a season after all. At this point the best they could do is a 50 game season and that would suck. The younger teams will benefit the most (since most games will be back to back) while old veteran teams like the mavs will be too fatigued to really have a shot at defending their title. I'm pissed. How many years does Dirk have left, Kobe was on his last legs, Boston without a doubt can't contend next year being a year older when they are already all in their mid 30's.

 

[cheezy321]

Well, as an owner, I'd much rather be selling tickets for $10 a pop, paying "players", let's say $50,000 a year and still raking in money hand over fist.

Besides, watching average joes play would probably be far more entertaining than watching so-called (overpaid) "professionals" play it any day. Hell, I've watched some pickup games at the park that were pretty damn good.

LOL! This is why I can never take anything you say seriously. You can't be serious.