NAACP ask UN to investigate US voting rights laws

[xBiffx]

So you are willing to stop 10% from voting to block .00001% fraud?

As I said a page or so ago, I so no need to suppress any votes. If your vote get suppressed its your own damn fault. Suppression is optional, just get the proper IDs. Fraud is not optional, everything that can be done to eliminate any should be done (even if it is estimated by some liberals to be insignificant).

 

[xBiffx]

Excepting of course those who pay nothing because of low income

Mother of God, did you really have to go there Fern?! :biggrin:

 

[Fern]

No. Only certain statuses to a person allow this to happen. Military membership and students are two that I know of off the bat.

Basically, as a military member or an out of state student, it is recognized that the person living where they are may not become a permanent resident. They aren't considered transitory, because they are expected to stay living in that place for a few years at the least though. Still, you vote where you LIVE, but pay income taxes where your base of residence is declared. When your status changes though you are expected to either move back to your declared area of residence, or change your declaration to where you currently are.

Damn people, this has been the law for AGES.

Students and military are treated differently.

And students are typically treated differently than non-students as far as residency for tuition purposes go.

Students working in the place they go to school would pay income taxes to that place/state, unlike military.

Fern

 

[blankslate]

So why shouldn't people be required to show ID to vote?

Maybe they should but then the states would have to implement the process of getting acceptable IDs into the hands of people who for whatever reason don't have Driver's licenses, so that these laws don't have any impact negative impacts on legitimate people who want to vote.
This would probably have to include public service announcements on radio and T.V. and on billboard signs as well as printed PSAs inserted into newspapers sold in the state.

The study I cited earlier on page 3 of this thread has interesting data in that regard.

Maybe a national ID card is in order? But think we have a good idea what the typical reaction of many of those supporting voter ID laws would be.

 

[JSt0rm]

As I said a page or so ago, I so no need to suppress any votes. If your vote get suppressed its your own damn fault. Suppression is optional, just get the proper IDs. Fraud is not optional, everything that can be done to eliminate any should be done (even if it is estimated by some liberals to be insignificant).

But voting is a fundamental right that can not be suppressed.

 

[Texashiker]

Maybe they should but then the states would have to implement the process of getting acceptable IDs into the hands of people who for whatever reason don't have Driver's licenses, so that these laws don't have any impact negative impacts on legitimate people who want to vote.

Texas has a state ID card program. All you have to do is go to the DPS station, bring SS card, copy of birth certificate, and something like a school record.

But voting is a fundamental right that can not be suppressed.

Rights can be restricted.

 

[cybrsage]

But yet people are required to show ID at a bank, or cash a check, or use a credit card, and sometimes even go to the doctor. So why shouldn't people be required to show ID to vote?

Libs think voting is FAR less important than any of those things. Voting only decides who gets to run the country, so it is not important enough to safeguard.

 

[cybrsage]

But voting is a fundamental right that can not be suppressed.

If someone decides not to vote, is their right suppressed?
If someone decides not to get the free ID card so they can vote, is their right suppressed?

 

[xBiffx]

But voting is a fundamental right that can not be suppressed.

It's not being suppressed. I have a right to bear arms but there are still forms and ID that I have to present to execute it. Suppression of rights not found.

 

[blankslate]

Texas has a state ID card program. All you have to do is go to the DPS station, bring SS card, copy of birth certificate, and something like a school record.

Some people would fall through the cracks undoubtedly. There'd have to be a reasonable awareness campaign conducted, that reduces the rate of legitimate voters denied their right to vote to what the rate of voter fraud has been found to be, for state voter ID laws to be passed in good faith...

 

[Texashiker]

If someone decides not to get the free ID card so they can vote, is their right suppressed?

I would like to add,

If someone decides not to fill out the paperwork to buy a gun, are their rights being suppressed?

If someone decides not to provide ID when they buy a gun, are their rights being suppressed?

If someone decides not to register to vote, are their rights being suppressed?

Why does someone have to register to vote anyway? Exercising your rights should not take any extra effort on the part of the person. After all, it should be up to the state to ensure that your rights are being upheld (yea right).

We should be able to walk into any voting booth, say "I am a US citizen" and be allowed to vote.

 

[JSt0rm]

having people register to vote does cut down on fraud. That is the hurtle that must be overcome.

 

[Texashiker]

having people register to vote does cut down on fraud. That is the hurtle that must be overcome.

What must be overcome? Voter fraud, or requiring people to register?

 

[JSt0rm]

What must be overcome? Voter fraud, or requiring people to register?

The hurtle people must overcome is the registration process.

 

[HumblePie]

Students and military are treated differently.

And students are typically treated differently than non-students as far as residency for tuition purposes go.

Students working in the place they go to school would pay income taxes to that place/state, unlike military.

Fern

Actually military also pay income in the place they work, except for military income. For example, I was living in Colorado and took a night job while I was still working in the military. As long as you get permission to do so, which I did, the military will let you do other work if you want to. The OTHER work I had to pay income taxes for to the state of Colorado.

Out of state students working in the state they are residing in, but not declared as permanent residents of, would also pay income taxes towards that state if that state has income taxes.

Neither are required, or at least in the past, to change their state of residency or obtain identification cards for the state they are residing in. Nor do all states require their permanent residents to obtain ID cards either.

 

[xBiffx]

having people register to vote does cut down on fraud. That is the hurtle that must be overcome.

So you have nothing to say with regards to the requirement to present ID to execute 2nd amendment rights? Why, cause that fits with your agenda? Liberal mental gymnastics at its finest. Never ceases to amaze me.

 

[HumblePie]

Again, I don't have a problem with having someone present an ID. I have a problem with some of these laws that were worded to only allow state issued IDs or drivers licenses be the only form of ID recognized to be eligible to vote. That would prevent military, and out of state students from voting. I have a BIG problem with that. I have a problem with the fact that many legislators pushing these laws through in that way stated they are doing this to prevent out of state students from voting by enacting those laws.

 

[fskimospy]

Riiiight.

I pay thousands in r/e tax to the city where my commercial building is, so I get to vote there? Nope.

The big department stores are just across the county border so I'm paying sales tax to that county. I get to vote there? Nope.

IMO, residence for voting purposes and residence for taxation purposes should be the same. If I'm contributing the govt revenue, I should have a say in how it's spent (i.e., voting). If not, then no. (Excepting of course those who pay nothing because of low income.)

Fern

You're actually reinforcing my point. States get a majority of their revenue from sales and property taxes, something that people actually living IN the state contribute most to. Income tax is a considerably smaller fraction. So by being a resident of those states and voting there, they are voting in the jurisdiction where they likely contribute the largest share of tax income to, not to some state halfway across the country where they just happen to pay income tax.

So really, by your own logic you are agreeing that they should vote in the state they are present in.

 

[xBiffx]

I have a problem with some of these laws that were worded to only allow state issued IDs or drivers licenses be the only form of ID recognized to be eligible to vote.

I agree and I think that they should include federally issued ID's as well. I am confident that language will eventually make its way in. Military ID's and passports are two obviously acceptable forms of ID that I can think of off hand.

 

[JSt0rm]

So you have nothing to say with regards to the requirement to present ID to execute 2nd amendment rights? Why, cause that fits with your agenda? Liberal mental gymnastics at its finest. Never ceases to amaze me.

We arent talking about the 2nd amendment but since you want to go there

Why should anyone be limited to what weapons they can purchase? If the point is to be able to stop, violently, an oppressive government why shouldnt the average citizen have access to tanks and military jets? I think ALL weapons should be available to ALL people ALL the time.

There thats my stance.

 

[Fern]

Every time this issue comes up the Libs demand a list of voting fraud, saying if you can't document cases the problem doesn't exist.

How about this time you guys come up with a list of people who were improperly refused free ID and therefore couldn't vote?

By your logic if the list isn't substantial we shouldn't worry about it because it clearly isn't a real problem if you can't document it.

There a number of states which require ID so if people were having their voting rights suppressed because they were improperly refused a free ID we should know about it.

Fern

 

[cybrsage]

having people register to vote does cut down on fraud. That is the hurtle that must be overcome.

Why do you have minorities? Why are you suppressing minority voters by forcing them to register?

 

[Texashiker]

I have a problem with some of these laws that were worded to only allow state issued IDs or drivers licenses be the only form of ID recognized to be eligible to vote.

Makes sense to me.

If you want to live and vote in that state, then you have to follow the laws of said state.

 

[xBiffx]

We arent talking about the 2nd amendment but since you want to go there

Why should anyone be limited to what weapons they can purchase? If the point is to be able to stop, violently, an oppressive government why shouldnt the average citizen have access to tanks and military jets? I think ALL weapons should be available to ALL people ALL the time.

There thats my stance.

Sure thing, troll.

 

[fskimospy]

Every time this issue comes up the Libs demand a list of voting fraud, saying if you can't document cases the problem doesn't exist.

How about this time you guys come up with a list of people who were improperly refused free ID and therefore couldn't vote?

By your logic if the list isn't substantial we shouldn't worry about it because it clearly isn't a real problem if you can't document it.

There a number of states which require ID so if people were having their voting rights suppressed because they were improperly refused a free ID we should know about it.

Fern

Nice try on putting the burden of proof on the people affected by the law as opposed to the people trying to restrict voting access. What's really strange is that this argument seems to be implicitly conceding that there is no evidence for this voter fraud. Why on earth would you support a law without factual basis?

The facts are inescapable, people are being presented with an additional burden. This cannot be argued. Now you must justify this burden.