NAACP ask UN to investigate US voting rights laws

[shortylickens]

This thread went exactly where I knew it would.

 

[monovillage]

This thread went exactly where I knew it would.

Yep, derailed within 10 posts.

 

[xBiffx]

Really? All the new rules are gone?


Lets test it out :sneaky:

Go fuck yourself you fucking fuck.

Wait for it....

Don't worry, I'm not reporting this one. I just about fell out of my chair laughing. The comedic value alone is worth letting that one go. Pretty sure that even as tight as the asses can be around here they still know how to take a joke. Thanks! :biggrin:

 

[Jhhnn]

I liked it a lot better when conspiracy theorists were going on about Bigfoot, Roswell, Area 51 or even Obama's birth certificate rather than this witch hunt of "Voter Fraud". All they have is an answer in search of a problem, an answer that all too strongly resembles voter suppression tactics of the past.

Show me the fraud- then we can talk. Until then, it's only reasonable to suspect motives, considering who is most likely to be denied their right to vote.

It would be different if States engaged in serious outreach programs to provide ID, but they don't- they'd rather spend their money hiring lawyers to sue the govt, apparently intent on better shaping the electorate to the liking of power holders.

 

[glenn1]

I notice you put the word 'free' in there. And now you are using it, too, Fern:

I don't know about your states but in CT a photo ID costs $22.50

Therefore, requiring someone to obtain a photo ID would be equivalent to levying a poll tax.

How ironic coming from someone whose political viewpoint likely demands that because I'm alive, I now have to purchase health insurance or face thousands of dollars in fines. If requiring voters show ID to vote is a "poll tax," then by that logic Obamacare surely is as well.

 

[dank69]

How ironic coming from someone whose political viewpoint likely demands that because I'm alive, I now have to purchase health insurance or face thousands of dollars in fines. If requiring voters show ID to vote is a "poll tax," then by that logic Obamacare surely is as well.

Yes, much better for a healthy individual such as yourself to not have health insurance, get hit by a drunk driver with no auto insurance and then have the taxpayers pay for your healthcare because you can't afford the $100k bill.

 

[nonlnear]

How ironic coming from someone whose political viewpoint likely demands that because I'm alive, I now have to purchase health insurance or face thousands of dollars in fines. If requiring voters show ID to vote is a "poll tax," then by that logic Obamacare surely is as well.

That's precisely why the fines are totally unenforceable. Read the act. You don't actually have to pay any of it.

(2) Special rules
Notwithstanding any other provision of law—
(A) Waiver of criminal penalties
In the case of any failure by a taxpayer to timely pay any penalty imposed by this section, such taxpayer shall not be subject to any criminal prosecution or penalty with respect to such failure.
(B) Limitations on liens and levies
The Secretary shall not—
(i) file notice of lien with respect to any property of a taxpayer by reason of any failure to pay the penalty imposed by this section, or
(ii) levy on any such property with respect to such failure.

 

[OutHouse]

No. Only certain statuses to a person allow this to happen. Military membership and students are two that I know of off the bat.

Basically, as a military member or an out of state student, it is recognized that the person living where they are may not become a permanent resident. They aren't considered transitory, because they are expected to stay living in that place for a few years at the least though. Still, you vote where you LIVE, but pay income taxes where your base of residence is declared. When your status changes though you are expected to either move back to your declared area of residence, or change your declaration to where you currently are.

Damn people, this has been the law for AGES.

i dunno dude i spent 10 years in the military and i believe this to be wrong. im going to research this.


HAH! i was right. what you posted is flat out voter fraud. you can only vote where your legal residence is and if you are registered to vote.

how does it feel to be a criminal?

I was able to keep my drivers license legally from Texas and use it in Colorado. I did not have to pay income tax, on military income that is, for the state of Colorado despite living there for 4 years. But since I was living there for 4 years I was legally able to vote for Colorado elections.

100% flat out wrong. if you did this you committed voter fraud. I live in Colorado and when i vote this is the procedure. I go to the poling station. hand them my DL they ask for my for my residence address and compare what i said, with the book and what the DL says, to verify i am registered to vote in my district and that i am at the correct polling station, if all that matches then i am allowed to vote, i am handed my DL back along with a ballot. I really do not think you were able to walk up, hand the election official your TX DL and say Howdy partner, i sure would like to vote.




http://www.fvap.gov/faq.html#usmq2


Where is my "legal voting residence"?

For voting purposes, "legal voting residence" can be the State or territory where you last resided prior to entering military service OR the State or territory that you have since claimed as your legal residence.

Even though you may no longer maintain formal ties to that residence, the address determines your proper voting jurisdiction. To claim a new legal residence, you must have simultaneous physical presence and the intent to return to that location as your primary residence. Military and their family members may change their legal residence every time they change permanent duty stations, or they may retain their legal residence without change. This may mean that the family's Uniformed Service member has a different legal voting residence than his/her family members. A Judge Advocate General officer or legal counsel should be consulted before legal residence is changed because there are usually other factors that should be considered besides voting.



Can I vote in-person where I am stationed?
Military members may vote in the U.S. State or territory where stationed if they change their legal residence to that State or territory

 

[fskimospy]

We've posted back-n-forth about this several times.

For one thing, you cannot prove voter fraud involving identity unless and until you have an ID requirement. In the absence of an ID requirement, the only way to prove (convict) voting fraud is with a confession.

For another, no one has ever come up with serious study on voting fraud. If you don't look for something, you won't find it.

Not too long ago a federal law was passed requiring (sort of) states to check their voting rolls. Those that have, have reported substantial discrepancies. Some are easy to spot with ID, namely felons who shouldn't be there. I've previously linked some of these.

If the foundation for your system- the voter rolls - is a mess, you need to start there and clean it up. Right now the system is broken/unreliable. The obvious way to fix it is require ID then clean up the rolls. We'll also need to have states cross-checking their rolls. We've got a lot people with multiple residences that could easily register in 2 counties or two states. I find it highly counter-intuitive to leave holes in your system and assume no one is abusing them. Experience says otherwise.

We've seen that elections can be very very close, so you don't always need hordes of people cheating to unduly influence an election.

Fern

This is basically all entirely fact free nonsense.

As has been explained multiple times, including to you, there are lots of ways you could prove in person voting fraud without a confession. The primary way would be through the recording of multiple attempts to vote under a single registration.

Furthermore, quite a lot of research has been done into voting fraud, including a specifically designed nationwide federal effort to attack it. What was the result? They couldn't find any.

Basically you are simply buying into an entirely fact free article of faith by the ultra right in America that in person voter fraud is endemic, despite exactly zero evidence for it. The fact that you admit that there's no evidence for it but still believe in it anyway just shows how you're desperately searching for any reason to justify a position you long ago decided to take.

 

[Jhhnn]

We've posted back-n-forth about this several times.

For one thing, you cannot prove voter fraud involving identity unless and until you have an ID requirement. In the absence of an ID requirement, the only way to prove (convict) voting fraud is with a confession.

For another, no one has ever come up with serious study on voting fraud. If you don't look for something, you won't find it.

Not too long ago a federal law was passed requiring (sort of) states to check their voting rolls. Those that have, have reported substantial discrepancies. Some are easy to spot with ID, namely felons who shouldn't be there. I've previously linked some of these.

If the foundation for your system- the voter rolls - is a mess, you need to start there and clean it up. Right now the system is broken/unreliable. The obvious way to fix it is require ID then clean up the rolls. We'll also need to have states cross-checking their rolls. We've got a lot people with multiple residences that could easily register in 2 counties or two states. I find it highly counter-intuitive to leave holes in your system and assume no one is abusing them. Experience says otherwise.

We've seen that elections can be very very close, so you don't always need hordes of people cheating to unduly influence an election.

Fern

So, uhh, you have no proof that "Voter Fraud" actually occurs, right? Just that there are discrepancies in registration.... What makes you think that needing ID to vote will change those discrepancies, anyway? Ouija Board?

 

[hal2kilo]

Flat out lie.

Also, the fact that you think this is a good thing tells me all I need to know.

I guess I have to drag out this old chestnut. This has been the conservative plan for the last 30 odd years. The dude in this video was one of the founders of ALEC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GBAsFwPglw

 

[blankslate]

I guess I have to drag out this old chestnut. This has been the conservative plan for the last 30 odd years. The dude in this video was one of the founders of ALEC.

You should know that ALEC is a strawman invented by Liberals to discredit conservative lawmakers and businessmen... why the fact that you have provided a link to an obviously fake video just shows that you hate America and Laissez Faire capitalism which is enshrined in the Constitution

 

[hal2kilo]

You should know that ALEC is a strawman invented by Liberals to discredit conservative lawmakers and businessmen... why the fact that you have provided a link to an obviously fake video just shows that you hate America and Laissez Faire capitalism which is enshrined in the Constitution

tapping meter

 

[blankslate]

tapping meter

I was being facetious. I've heard about ALEC but, I'm sure if I mentioned it to my more conservative acquaintances they'd think I was spouting Bilderberg/Illuminati conspiracy theories.

 

[hal2kilo]

I was being facetious. I've heard about ALEC but, I'm sure if I mentioned it to my more conservative acquaintances they'd think I was spouting Bilderberg/Illuminati conspiracy theories.

I wish that ALEC was just a conspiracy theory.

 

[blankslate]

I wish that ALEC was just a conspiracy theory.

I know how you feel. When I heard about it I was floored that no major news organization is looking into it.

 

[Craig234]

I know how you feel. When I heard about it I was floored that no major news organization is looking into it.

I've found that 'conservatives' seem to have almost no limit to the agenda they are unconcerned with if it comes from a 'conspiracy of the rich and/or corporations'.

If they were out to take everyone's firstborn child, well, that's capitalism, don't complain.

But their paranoia on the other side - like ACORN or George Sorors - is also huge.

Oh, no, a group who registers voters! Clearly it's the number one threat domestically to our way of life and must be destroyed! Such perverse ignorance, fueled by ideology.

 

[Bateluer]

You have to show ID when you buy a gun,
You have to show ID when you buy a bottle of whiskey (unless you look well over 21),
You have to show ID when you go to your bank,
You are supposed to show ID when you use a credit card,
but for some reason you do not have to show ID when you vote?

Figure that one out.

This. AZ has issues with illegal immigrants attempting to vote without any IDs. Idiots went ballistic when we attempted to stop it.

 

[rudder]

Also as stated, this prevents absentee ballots as well with these voter ID laws. Meaning, that if you are away on vacation, or doing a job assignment overseas (as a contractor this could happen to me) I would not be able to vote as I could no longer do an absentee vote since I couldn't show my ID to anyone.

You do not need a photo ID to submit an absentee ballot.

 

[OutHouse]

Quote:
Originally Posted by HumblePie View Post
Also as stated, this prevents absentee ballots as well with these voter ID laws. Meaning, that if you are away on vacation, or doing a job assignment overseas (as a contractor this could happen to me) I would not be able to vote as I could no longer do an absentee vote since I couldn't show my ID to anyone.

You do not need a photo ID to submit an absentee ballot.

humble is so full of wrong info is truly sad.

 

[Fern]

-snip-
As has been explained multiple times, including to you, there are lots of ways you could prove in person voting fraud without a confession. The primary way would be through the recording of multiple attempts to vote under a single registration.

It proves nothing other than someone tried to vote for than once. Since no ID required it cannot proven that someone tried to vote under another's name/registration.

Nor does it in any address false voter registrations or other methods of multiple votes by any single person.

Furthermore, quite a lot of research has been done into voting fraud, including a specifically designed nationwide federal effort to attack it. What was the result? They couldn't find any.

Link it up please, I'll look at it. Too often here studies and the like have been mis-advertised or mis-described as to what they actually are.

The only federal level effort I recall seeing is the law requiring states to report on the accuracy of voter registration laws. And those weren't pretty.

Fern

 

[Fern]

So, uhh, you have no proof that "Voter Fraud" actually occurs, right? Just that there are discrepancies in registration.... What makes you think that needing ID to vote will change those discrepancies, anyway? Ouija Board?

Of course there is proof of voter fraud. The contention from the Left is that they are too small to warrant any action.

I've already explained how the use of ID's is necessary to clean voter rolls.

Fern