My dad thinks it's ridiculous to own a gun...

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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
52,787
46,600
136
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: adairusmc
Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
I think it's funny how so many anti-gun Americans are willing to do away with the second amendment. What kind of precedent does that set for the rest of the Bill of Rights?

So many liberal Americans whine about things like the Patriot Act trampling their constitutional rights, but as soon as getting rid of the second amendment comes up in conversation then that's fine.

Exactly. If you want to get rid of the 2nd, then you should have to deal with getting rid of every other right you have as well. The 2nd is every bit as important as all the other amendments.

Geez you gun nuts are the same. The 2nd does NOT protect an individual right to own a gun. The Supreme Court has ruled plenty of times that it is ok for the government to restrict gun ownership on those that have never been felons or any other legal way to strip rights away.
Go read some court papers and you could see that. But this is Off Topic. Take it to P&N with the rest of the whack jobs.


And if you need a gun for protection, I guess that says more about you and the place you live. As I live somewhere where I don?t need a gun and sleep just fine.

If you bothered to read anything the founders wrote regarding the Constitution you would realize that you've been sold a bill of goods by the anti-gun lobby. The 2nd Amendment was largely included as a check against government power providing that the citizenry at large would never be disarmed by the government/standing army.

The SC has actually refused to hear a lot of the gun cases that are put before it and has left a lot of lattitude to the states to handle the issue individually in the decisions they have made. However, outright bans of all firearms cross even their limit of what is acceptable.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
174
106
Originally posted by: goku
we were talking about roadrage a week ago and he happened to mention that people were so crazy that they keep guns in their glove compartment and I was like :confused:.

Do you think it's unreasonable to keep a pistol in your glove compartment? I've always considering owning a few guns of my own but it seems like my dad would look down upon that...


No, I don't think its unreasonable to keep a gun in the glove compartmemt. I've got one locked in mine. I keep it there in case of breakdowns/flat tires on the highway.

I've lived in places where people do things like lay cinder blocks across the exit ramps, causing you to stop so they rob/kill you etc.

Fern
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,002
126
The constitution can be changed for a reason, times change.

I understand where you are coming from with this, but that was the point I was trying to make in my earlier post. If we feel that times have changed and the second amendment no longer is needed, what does that mean for the other 9 items in the bill of rights? Does that mean one day the government will say we don't need freedom of speech/religion/press because those ideas are antiquated? Say we blow away the second amendment, perhaps 30 years from now the goverment feels you no longer should have the right to criticize their actions or speak negitively about the president? Everyone has to be Christian, the press only prints what the government approves, etc.

I would think even if an American citizen did not personally want anything to do with guns they would support the 2nd amendment because of what it could mean for the other nine items in the bill of rights if they didn't.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,584
985
126
Originally posted by: Fern
Originally posted by: goku
we were talking about roadrage a week ago and he happened to mention that people were so crazy that they keep guns in their glove compartment and I was like :confused:.

Do you think it's unreasonable to keep a pistol in your glove compartment? I've always considering owning a few guns of my own but it seems like my dad would look down upon that...


No, I don't think its unreasonable to keep a gun in the glove compartmemt. I've got one locked in mine. I keep it there in case of breakdowns/flat tires on the highway.

I've lived in places where people do things like lay cinder blocks across the exit ramps, causing you to stop so they rob/kill you etc.

Fern

So you can put your car out of its misery? :laugh:
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,584
985
126
Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
The 2nd does NOT protect an individual right to own a gun.

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

I'm hardy a gun nut. I own a rifle that I shoot at the range and a shotgun that I shot clay pigeons with from time to time.

I wouldn't say I'm a gun nut either. I go to the shooting range a few times a year and to the desert with friends once or twice a year to shoot targets and sporting clays.

I hardly ever pick up most of my guns anymore. They just sit locked in my safe 99% of the time. I do keep one loaded in a pistol safe in my bedroom...never had to use it for anything other than target practice at the range though.
 

pontifex

Lifer
Dec 5, 2000
43,804
46
91
Originally posted by: Poulsonator
Originally posted by: Eeezee
Your dad was talking about nutjobs who keep the gun in the glove box for the sake of shooting at other people.

What other reason is there to own a handgun?

hunting? target shooting? nostalgia? collecting? repairing?
 

Specop 007

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2005
9,454
0
0
Originally posted by: BouZouki
Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
The 2nd does NOT protect an individual right to own a gun.

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

I'm hardy a gun nut. I own a rifle that I shoot at the range and a shotgun that I shot clay pigeons with from time to time.

Be serious, they intended people to be able to own a gun so they could form militias and protect themselves from invasion, do we need to do that in our present time? No.

The constitution can be changed for a reason, times change.

Fail history did we?

We the people were armed to protect from ANYTHING which might threaten We the people.

Does the little phrase "Enemies both foreign and domestic" mean anything to you?
 
May 16, 2000
13,522
0
0
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: adairusmc
Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
I think it's funny how so many anti-gun Americans are willing to do away with the second amendment. What kind of precedent does that set for the rest of the Bill of Rights?

So many liberal Americans whine about things like the Patriot Act trampling their constitutional rights, but as soon as getting rid of the second amendment comes up in conversation then that's fine.

Exactly. If you want to get rid of the 2nd, then you should have to deal with getting rid of every other right you have as well. The 2nd is every bit as important as all the other amendments.

Geez you gun nuts are the same. The 2nd does NOT protect an individual right to own a gun. The Supreme Court has ruled plenty of times that it is ok for the government to restrict gun ownership on those that have never been felons or any other legal way to strip rights away.
Go read some court papers and you could see that. But this is Off Topic. Take it to P&N with the rest of the whack jobs.


And if you need a gun for protection, I guess that says more about you and the place you live. As I live somewhere where I don?t need a gun and sleep just fine.

While it didn't make it to SCOTUS, US v Emerson is a pretty telling case on where things are. It more or less irrefutably establishes it as an individual right. There is almost no logical argument that it isn't an individual right, though there are plenty of political ones out there to take reasons place.
 
May 16, 2000
13,522
0
0
Originally posted by: BouZouki
Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
The 2nd does NOT protect an individual right to own a gun.

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

I'm hardy a gun nut. I own a rifle that I shoot at the range and a shotgun that I shot clay pigeons with from time to time.

Be serious, they intended people to be able to own a gun so they could form militias and protect themselves from invasion, do we need to do that in our present time? No.

The constitution can be changed for a reason, times change.

The Constitution is certainly changeable. Problem is they're not trying to change it, they're trying to reinterpret it. You want the 2nd gone? No worries, just get the amendment repealed. I hope you're ready for the fight that will come as a result however. Plenty of us would go to war over it.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: BouZouki
Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
The 2nd does NOT protect an individual right to own a gun.

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

I'm hardy a gun nut. I own a rifle that I shoot at the range and a shotgun that I shot clay pigeons with from time to time.

Be serious, they intended people to be able to own a gun so they could form militias and protect themselves from invasion, do we need to do that in our present time? No.

The constitution can be changed for a reason, times change.

And here's how you would do it:
Article V.

AMENDING THE CONSTITUTION
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States, or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of it's equal Suffrage in the Senate.

Until then, STFU.

<sarcasm>I think it's ridiculous that people are allowed to vote. Obviously, voting is too dangerous for the common people, and could be used for harm. We should outlaw the right to vote, and simply trust the authorities to protect us. It's irrational paranoia that some nutjobs think otherwise. </sarcasm>
 

Aquaman

Lifer
Dec 17, 1999
25,054
13
0
Originally posted by: meltdown75
Originally posted by: Citrix
do you have any hobbies? well if you squint your eyes really really really tight and think really really really hard I bet you will realize you dont NEED any of those tools associated with your hobby.
Yeah you're right. I suppose I *could* kill someone with my hockey stick, with enough determination. Hockey cards also have sharp edges sometimes. Gotta be careful with the model glue too, might OD on that sh|t man.

not with Hemskys hockey stick..... he does not like to shot ;)

Cheers,
Aquaman
 

ksaajasto

Senior member
Nov 29, 2006
212
0
0
yeah i think that i am with your dad on that one. if someone is that mad at someone... just drive away... don't resort to a gun.

 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,134
2,450
126
Keeping a pistol in your glove box for defense against car jackings is absolutely stupid.







That's what quick release holsters are for :)
 

CFster

Golden Member
Oct 16, 1999
1,903
0
76
Originally posted by: BouZouki
Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
The 2nd does NOT protect an individual right to own a gun.

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

I'm hardy a gun nut. I own a rifle that I shoot at the range and a shotgun that I shot clay pigeons with from time to time.

Be serious, they intended people to be able to own a gun so they could form militias and protect themselves from invasion, do we need to do that in our present time? No.

The constitution can be changed for a reason, times change.


Yikes!!! Don't say that!

The antiquated 2nd Amendment is the only leg these wackos have to stand on. After all reason has failed, they always come back to that. They'll defend it to their last breath, or bullet.




 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: CFster
Originally posted by: BouZouki
Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
The 2nd does NOT protect an individual right to own a gun.

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

I'm hardy a gun nut. I own a rifle that I shoot at the range and a shotgun that I shot clay pigeons with from time to time.

Be serious, they intended people to be able to own a gun so they could form militias and protect themselves from invasion, do we need to do that in our present time? No.

The constitution can be changed for a reason, times change.
Yikes!!! Don't say that!

The antiquated 2nd Amendment is the only leg these wackos have to stand on. After all reason has failed, they always come back to that. They'll defend it to their last breath, or bullet.
What bugs me is those media wackos and their antiquated 1st amendment! WTF don't they know that times have changed???
 

CFster

Golden Member
Oct 16, 1999
1,903
0
76
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: CFster
Originally posted by: BouZouki
Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
The 2nd does NOT protect an individual right to own a gun.

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

I'm hardy a gun nut. I own a rifle that I shoot at the range and a shotgun that I shot clay pigeons with from time to time.

Be serious, they intended people to be able to own a gun so they could form militias and protect themselves from invasion, do we need to do that in our present time? No.

The constitution can be changed for a reason, times change.
Yikes!!! Don't say that!

The antiquated 2nd Amendment is the only leg these wackos have to stand on. After all reason has failed, they always come back to that. They'll defend it to their last breath, or bullet.
What bugs me is those media wackos and their antiquated 1st amendment! WTF don't they know that times have changed???

It comes down to intelligence. Being smart enough to know the difference. Last I knew free speech wasn't killing more people in this country than everywhere else in the world.

Not my fault I was born smarter than the gun activists.

Maybe someday we'll have somebody running this country who can make the tough decisions.


 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: CFster
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: CFster
Originally posted by: BouZouki
Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
The 2nd does NOT protect an individual right to own a gun.

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

I'm hardy a gun nut. I own a rifle that I shoot at the range and a shotgun that I shot clay pigeons with from time to time.

Be serious, they intended people to be able to own a gun so they could form militias and protect themselves from invasion, do we need to do that in our present time? No.

The constitution can be changed for a reason, times change.
Yikes!!! Don't say that!

The antiquated 2nd Amendment is the only leg these wackos have to stand on. After all reason has failed, they always come back to that. They'll defend it to their last breath, or bullet.
What bugs me is those media wackos and their antiquated 1st amendment! WTF don't they know that times have changed???

It comes down to intelligence. Being smart enough to know the difference. Last I knew free speech wasn't killing more people in this country than everywhere else in the world.

Not my fault I was born smarter than the gun activists.

Maybe someday we'll have somebody running this country who can make the tough decisions.
If free speech doesn't kill then how do "loose lips sink ships"?? ;)

No, I see you're being serious. Your comments looked like sarcasm. Before you start talking haughtily about intelligence, you better get your facts straight. The US doesn't have the highest murder rate in the world, nor even close to. Mexico has 4 times the murder rate of the US, and handguns are illegal there. Russia has 5 times our murder rate, and all private firearm ownership is illegal there.

So before you go patting yourself on the back for your amazing smarts, you might want to figure out where you got this notion that banning guns would somehow be more successful than banning drugs has been.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Originally posted by: BouZouki
Be serious, they intended people to be able to own a gun so they could form militias and protect themselves from invasion, do we need to do that in our present time? No.
What exactly do you expect to form a militia with when people are not allowed to own weapons? Citizens wielding pitchforks? Rotten fruit? Bad breath? Presumably if the situation were dire enough that non-military citizens had to take up arms, it's because the military isn't taking action. Either they've been defeated by an external enemy or they're complicit with the internal one. Either way, you're not going to have access to their weapons.

And how quickly people forget history. Just because you're 15 years old riding a wave of relative peace and prosperity never having known any kind of strife doesn't mean it can't happen again.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Originally posted by: CFster
It comes down to intelligence. Being smart enough to know the difference. Last I knew free speech wasn't killing more people in this country than everywhere else in the world.

Not my fault I was born smarter than the gun activists.

Maybe someday we'll have somebody running this country who can make the tough decisions.
Look at all the perverts on the internet using chatrooms to get their rocks off talking to little kids. You're right, maybe somebody can make the tough decisions someday, and will eliminate access to the internet by average citizens. There's nothing you can't get on the internet that you can't get from TV, newspapers, magazines, and your local stores, so there's really no need for most people to use it.

I guess I'm smarter than you.
 

Sniper82

Lifer
Feb 6, 2000
16,517
0
76
If I lived in a the city or rough neighborhood I'd keep a gun on me if I could(not in the car). But where I live ppl getting mugged,cars stolen,killings,ect just don't happen hardly at all if ever. But I do keep a gun in the house just encase someone gets brave and tries to break in while I'm home. Sure wouldn't care to put a bullet in someone to protect my family. I probably wouldn't even give them the chance to give up.

Just to much crazy stuff goes on in the world not to have something to protect yourself. To anyone who thinks its crazy to own a gun, one day you might be in a situation where you wish you had one.
 

Vette73

Lifer
Jul 5, 2000
21,503
9
0
Originally posted by: PrinceofWands
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Originally posted by: adairusmc
Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
I think it's funny how so many anti-gun Americans are willing to do away with the second amendment. What kind of precedent does that set for the rest of the Bill of Rights?

So many liberal Americans whine about things like the Patriot Act trampling their constitutional rights, but as soon as getting rid of the second amendment comes up in conversation then that's fine.

Exactly. If you want to get rid of the 2nd, then you should have to deal with getting rid of every other right you have as well. The 2nd is every bit as important as all the other amendments.

Geez you gun nuts are the same. The 2nd does NOT protect an individual right to own a gun. The Supreme Court has ruled plenty of times that it is ok for the government to restrict gun ownership on those that have never been felons or any other legal way to strip rights away.
Go read some court papers and you could see that. But this is Off Topic. Take it to P&N with the rest of the whack jobs.


And if you need a gun for protection, I guess that says more about you and the place you live. As I live somewhere where I don?t need a gun and sleep just fine.

While it didn't make it to SCOTUS, US v Emerson is a pretty telling case on where things are. It more or less irrefutably establishes it as an individual right. There is almost no logical argument that it isn't an individual right, though there are plenty of political ones out there to take reasons place.

And that was not even a federal court just a district court ruling. I guess you left that part out?

If you had done your reserach as I have you would know...

1. No federal court in history has overturned a gun law on Second Amendment grounds.

2. The meaning of the Second Amendment has been settled since the U.S. Supreme Court ruling in U.S. v. Miller

"In that case, the Court ruled that the "obvious purpose" of the Second Amendment was to "assure the continuation and render possible the effectiveness" of the state militia."

3. Since Miller, the Supreme Court has addressed the Second Amendment twice more, upholding New Jersey's strict gun control law in 1969 and upholding the federal law banning felons from possessing guns in 1980. Furthermore, twice - in 1965 and 1990 - the Supreme Court has held that the term "well-regulated militia" refers to the National Guard.


If any of you gun people think the 2nd protects your individual right to own a gun. Sue the government over any gun law saying it breaks your right as a individual to own a gun that is protected by the 2nd. Tell me how that works out.

Theres a reason the NRA has not sued saying any gun law is wrong as it breaks the 2nd. They know they would lose and not be able to get their dues from all the gun people and lose their "we stand for the 2nd..." BS slogan.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,791
6,350
126
Originally posted by: goku
we were talking about roadrage a week ago and he happened to mention that people were so crazy that they keep guns in their glove compartment and I was like :confused:.

Do you think it's unreasonable to keep a pistol in your glove compartment? I've always considering owning a few guns of my own but it seems like my dad would look down upon that...

Your dad is right.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
And that was not even a federal court just a district court ruling. I guess you left that part out?

If you had done your reserach as I have you would know...

1. No federal court in history has overturned a gun law on Second Amendment grounds.

2. The meaning of the Second Amendment has been settled since the U.S. Supreme Court ruling in U.S. v. Miller

"In that case, the Court ruled that the "obvious purpose" of the Second Amendment was to "assure the continuation and render possible the effectiveness" of the state militia."

3. Since Miller, the Supreme Court has addressed the Second Amendment twice more, upholding New Jersey's strict gun control law in 1969 and upholding the federal law banning felons from possessing guns in 1980. Furthermore, twice - in 1965 and 1990 - the Supreme Court has held that the term "well-regulated militia" refers to the National Guard.


If any of you gun people think the 2nd protects your individual right to own a gun. Sue the government over any gun law saying it breaks your right as a individual to own a gun that is protected by the 2nd. Tell me how that works out.

Theres a reason the NRA has not sued saying any gun law is wrong as it breaks the 2nd. They know they would lose and not be able to get their dues from all the gun people and lose their "we stand for the 2nd..." BS slogan.
Wow, look at the little boy pretending to be a constitutional law expert. :roll:

US v Miller only referred to sawed off shotguns.

"In the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a 'shotgun having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length' at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument. Certainly it is not within judicial notice that this weapon is any part of the ordinary military equipment or that its use could contribute to the common defense."

It says nothing about the 2nd Amendment in general you tool. You should learn to read before you pretend to know what you're talking about. If US v Miller is your basis for argument, you've just lost. And I sure would like it you provide cites for those cases where the Supreme Court clearly laid out the meaning of "well regulated militia", because I'd love to see it.


Besides, the text states clearly "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" not "the right of military to keep and bear arms". If you want to say "the people" only refers to military personnel, are you also willing to give up the "the right of the people peaceably to assemble" and "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures"? Because if "the people" doesn't refer to citizens but only to the military, then there is no right for anybody but the military to protest and nobody but current military personnel can expect protection from government searches.

Illiterate and ignorant. You've really got your bases covered there, don't ya Marlin?