Mormons

[pinion9]

Originally posted by: Alienwho
And what has happened technology wise over the past century?! More than those thousands of years before hand! Tenfold! Who has more similar lifestyles: People from our day (Cars, airplanes, spacetravel) compared to people 150 years ago (horse and buggy). Or people from the 1800's (horse and buggy) compared to people at the time of christ (hmmm..horse and chariot?)

I agree. I don't need a spokesman for God. I can read and interpret the Bible for myself. I hate organized religion and everything it stands for.

Well if your interpretation skills were up to par you'd realize that you DO need a spokesman to God. Oh but i'm sure you only interpret the parts of the bible you feel like.

What does technology have to do with religion? You try to make some corollary but it truly fails. It makes no sense.

Why do I need a spokesman to God? My Bible says I can pray directly to God. I don't need someone else that can talk to him for me. And how can you make some sort of judgement about what parts I believe and interpret? I used to go to Church. Had a pastor who cheated on his wife with the Deacon's wife. I had a pastor tell a congregation that they should vote for Clinton because it was God's will. Let me tell you, the Bible was written in such a fashion (with the use of parables) that the lay person can pick it up and derive meaning. Organized religion tends to insert their own beliefs in the Bible.

You sir are exactly the type of people that give religions a bad name. You will not address facts, and instead you attack me personally. Please tell me, why is it that so many Mormon rituals are Freemasonic?

 

[cvrefugee]

Originally posted by: pinion9
Here is a good story I heard from a Church member. It really creeps her out.

Being a married woman in the temple, you are required to always wear your garments. As a matter of fact, when changing your garment, you are supposed to remove the garment from one leg, put the new garment on that leg, then remove your other leg from the garment, etc. That way you aren't ever without it (unless bathing.) Anyhow, this woman would visit her Bishop and he would give her a hug. When hugging her, he would pat her back and feel for the garment (they have a heavy seem.) This is how he could tell if his people were following the laws... Doesn't seem like a big deal, but it really is a big deal.

On another note, my father in law performs some weird ritual when disposing of old garments, which includes cutting the crotch out with scissors and burning the garment.

Is this really a religion you want into?

This is the biggest lie told in this thread. You sir, have lost all credibility to me.

 

[pinion9]

Originally posted by: cvrefugee

Originally posted by: pinion9
Here is a good story I heard from a Church member. It really creeps her out.

Being a married woman in the temple, you are required to always wear your garments. As a matter of fact, when changing your garment, you are supposed to remove the garment from one leg, put the new garment on that leg, then remove your other leg from the garment, etc. That way you aren't ever without it (unless bathing.) Anyhow, this woman would visit her Bishop and he would give her a hug. When hugging her, he would pat her back and feel for the garment (they have a heavy seem.) This is how he could tell if his people were following the laws... Doesn't seem like a big deal, but it really is a big deal.

On another note, my father in law performs some weird ritual when disposing of old garments, which includes cutting the crotch out with scissors and burning the garment.

Is this really a religion you want into?

This is the biggest lie told in this thread. You sir, have lost all credibility to me.

You are calling me a liar? This wasn't some second hand story of a friend who had an aunt that was in it. Believe me, don't believe me, I don't care. However, I am not Mormon but have been exposed to much of it. I can assure you this is the truth. Like many other religions, there may be different flavors. Maybe your ward and your Bishop don't preach this, but the LDS church my in-laws go to does.

 

[engineereeyore]

msparish, here's the source, not a "pro-mormon" source, but the source. This is THE document given by the President of this Church.

To Whom It May Concern:

On September 30, 1978, at the 148th Semiannual General Conference of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the following was presented by President N. Eldon Tanner, First Counselor in the First Presidency of the Church:

In early June of this year, the First Presidency announced that a revelation had been received by President Spencer W. Kimball extending priesthood and temple blessings to all worthy male members of the Church. President Kimball has asked that I advise the conference that after he had received this revelation, which came to him after extended meditation and prayer in the sacred rooms of the holy temple, he presented it to his counselors, who accepted it and approved it. It was then presented to the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles, who unanimously approved it, and was subsequently presented to all other General Authorities, who likewise approved it unanimously.

President Kimball has asked that I now read this letter:

June 8, 1978
To all general and local priesthood officers of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints throughout the world:

Dear Brethren:

As we have witnessed the expansion of the work of the Lord over the earth, we have been grateful that people of many nations have responded to the message of the restored gospel, and have joined the Church in ever-increasing numbers. This, in turn, has inspired us with a desire to extend to every worthy member of the Church all of the privileges and blessings which the gospel affords.

Aware of the promises made by the prophets and presidents of the Church who have preceded us that at some time, in God?s eternal plan, all of our brethren who are worthy may receive the priesthood, and witnessing the faithfulness of those from whom the priesthood has been withheld, we have pleaded long and earnestly in behalf of these, our faithful brethren, spending many hours in the Upper Room of the Temple supplicating the Lord for divine guidance.

He has heard our prayers, and by revelation has confirmed that the long-promised day has come when every faithful, worthy man in the Church may receive the holy priesthood, with power to exercise its divine authority, and enjoy with his loved ones every blessing that flows therefrom, including the blessings of the temple. Accordingly, all worthy male members of the Church may be ordained to the priesthood without regard for race or color. Priesthood leaders are instructed to follow the policy of carefully interviewing all candidates for ordination to either the Aaronic or the Melchizedek Priesthood to insure that they meet the established standards for worthiness.

We declare with soberness that the Lord has now made known his will for the blessing of all his children throughout the earth who will hearken to the voice of his authorized servants, and prepare themselves to receive every blessing of the gospel.

Sincerely yours,

SPENCER W. KIMBALL
N. ELDON TANNER
MARION G. ROMNEY

The First Presidency

Recognizing Spencer W. Kimball as the prophet, seer, and revelator, and president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it is proposed that we as a constituent assembly accept this revelation as the word and will of the Lord. All in favor please signify by raising your right hand. Any opposed by the same sign.

The vote to sustain the foregoing motion was unanimous in the affirmative.

Salt Lake City, Utah, September 30, 1978.

See that bolded part? You know why they said it would be given to people "without regard for race or color"? Because it previously wasn't!!! They didn't just say color, or negro, or anything else. They said ALL RACE and COLOR.

But like I said, you feel whatever you want and read whatever you want from whatever sources you want. As for me, I'll stick with the only sources that matter on this regard, and that's the leadership of this church.

 

[pinion9]

Please, oh ye Holy Mormons, please explain to me how you will have wives in heaven when the Bible clearly states this. "Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven." (Matthew 22:29-30)

Bible says we won't marry, but Mormon scripture says we will be married. Which is right? Does the Mormon religion overrule whatever the bible says?

 

[pinion9]

I'm out of here for the day. Here is the bottom line: Joe Smith was a fraud and it has been proven that many of his divine revelations came from hoaxes. The religion will not be around in 500 years. While most Mormons are nice, good, caring people, the religion they belong to is built on lies and corruption.

Don't join it, especially for a free ride mission.

 

[cvrefugee]

Originally posted by: pinion9You are calling me a liar?

Yes, I am. You know nothing of the garments or their purpose.

 

[cvrefugee]

Originally posted by: pinion9
I'm out of here for the day. Here is the bottom line: Joe Smith was a fraud and it has been proven that many of his divine revelations came from hoaxes. The religion will not be around in 500 years. While most Mormons are nice, good, caring people, the religion they belong to is built on lies and corruption.

Don't join it, especially for a free ride mission.

The adversary is strong with you...it's good you're leaving so you won't spread your lies anymore.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: pinion9

What does technology have to do with religion? You try to make some corollary but it truly fails. It makes no sense.

Why do I need a spokesman to God? My Bible says I can pray directly to God. I don't need someone else that can talk to him for me. And how can you make some sort of judgement about what parts I believe and interpret? I used to go to Church. Had a pastor who cheated on his wife with the Deacon's wife. I had a pastor tell a congregation that they should vote for Clinton because it was God's will. Let me tell you, the Bible was written in such a fashion (with the use of parables) that the lay person can pick it up and derive meaning. Organized religion tends to insert their own beliefs in the Bible.

You sir are exactly the type of people that give religions a bad name. You will not address facts, and instead you attack me personally. Please tell me, why is it that so many Mormon rituals are Freemasonic?

I don't think Alienwho was trying to say you couldn't speak to God yourself through prayer, but was trying to say that the God has always used Prophets to relate messages to his people, and today is no different. With the multitude of evils that faces the world today, we are in need of prophetic guidance even more than ever. If God does indeed love us as much as he loved his people in time past, wouldn't he bless us with prophets also? And if so, shouldn't we listen to such individuals?

As for the Freemasonic question, I would imagine the rituals would be similar. Free Masonry is based off ideas gained by men who looked into the temple of Solomon and saw what happened therein. It would only seem appropriate that today's temple perform the same types of rituals the previous temples did.

As for the idea that the LDS temple rituals were simply learned from Free Masonry, you are almost correct. Ever wonder why the Lord allowed these individuals to see inside his temple? I mean, in a day where people were struck down quite often, why would the Lord allow these men to live and mock his sacred temple? Perhaps he had a future use for them.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: pinion9
Please, oh ye Holy Mormons, please explain to me how you will have wives in heaven when the Bible clearly states this. "Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven." (Matthew 22:29-30)

Bible says we won't marry, but Mormon scripture says we will be married. Which is right? Does the Mormon religion overrule whatever the bible says?

Actually, that scripture states that marriages will not happen at that time, not that they don't exist. And that is in complete harmony with the teachings of the LDS church. If you're not married by the time of the last resurrection, times out. Those not married by that time will be exactly as the Savior says, angels of God in heaven.

 

[6000SUX]

Originally posted by: cvrefugee

Originally posted by: pinion9
I'm out of here for the day. Here is the bottom line: Joe Smith was a fraud and it has been proven that many of his divine revelations came from hoaxes. The religion will not be around in 500 years. While most Mormons are nice, good, caring people, the religion they belong to is built on lies and corruption.

Don't join it, especially for a free ride mission.

The adversary is strong with you...it's good you're leaving so you won't spread your lies anymore.

The adversary's not strong with me, but I can clearly see false claims for what they are. Nobody answered about some of the more shameful hoaxes, such as the Egyptian "grammar". I am not religious, but if I were I certainly wouldn't belong to such a cult.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: pinion9
I'm out of here for the day. Here is the bottom line: Joe Smith was a fraud and it has been proven that many of his divine revelations came from hoaxes. The religion will not be around in 500 years. While most Mormons are nice, good, caring people, the religion they belong to is built on lies and corruption.

Don't join it, especially for a free ride mission.

I'm sorry, but perhaps you would care to show a lie or corruption rather than one of your misconceptions? Please don't blame our church for your misconceptions.

 

[jrphoenix]

Raised LDS "Mormon" and now I'm a Muslim (for the past 6 years). Too many things didn't sit well with me.

 

[6000SUX]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: pinion9
I'm out of here for the day. Here is the bottom line: Joe Smith was a fraud and it has been proven that many of his divine revelations came from hoaxes. The religion will not be around in 500 years. While most Mormons are nice, good, caring people, the religion they belong to is built on lies and corruption.

Don't join it, especially for a free ride mission.

I'm sorry, but perhaps you would care to show a lie or corruption rather than one of your misconceptions? Please don't blame our church for your misconceptions.

How about the hoaxes, such as the Egyptian "grammar"?

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Y'know Nik, it's obvious that mormonism is a Male created thing...or at least WAS in the early days...(and/or as practiced in the polygamist towns)
You can have as many wives as you want. You don't have to support them, put them on welfare if you can't...just adds to the household income...
You can party all night long, because church doesn't start till afternoon!
Wanna go to heaven, but don't want to give up that sinner lifestyle? Baptisms for the dead will cleanse you after you die...and in many cases, after you're long buried! Heck, they even have been known to baptise dead Holocaust victims and many others of different religions!
Yep, the Church of LSD...because you GOTTA be high to believe some of that sh!t!!

Oh my gosh, that's one of the funiest post I've ever read. Boy I wish some of that was true. That baptism for the dead would be nice, but unfortunately, you can't be rebaptized in the way you are thinking. Would be nice though. As for those of other religions, so long as they don't forbid it, then yes, we'll baptize them. If we're right, it only helps them. If we're wrong, the only ones hurt are us. Not like the Lord is going to punish the person for our actions.

And party all night long, that would be fun. Of course, I don't know that you've been to many Mormon parties. Not exactly thrilling events, but still fun. Don't think I've been to one that ended after 11 in a couple years though.

As for the other comments, funny.

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: 6000SUX

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: pinion9
I'm out of here for the day. Here is the bottom line: Joe Smith was a fraud and it has been proven that many of his divine revelations came from hoaxes. The religion will not be around in 500 years. While most Mormons are nice, good, caring people, the religion they belong to is built on lies and corruption.

Don't join it, especially for a free ride mission.

I'm sorry, but perhaps you would care to show a lie or corruption rather than one of your misconceptions? Please don't blame our church for your misconceptions.

How about the hoaxes, such as the Egyptian "grammar"?

Sorry, didn't catch that one. Would you mind pointing me to the right place or tell me what page it's on?

 

[Alienwho]

Originally posted by: pinion9

Originally posted by: Alienwho
And what has happened technology wise over the past century?! More than those thousands of years before hand! Tenfold! Who has more similar lifestyles: People from our day (Cars, airplanes, spacetravel) compared to people 150 years ago (horse and buggy). Or people from the 1800's (horse and buggy) compared to people at the time of christ (hmmm..horse and chariot?)

I agree. I don't need a spokesman for God. I can read and interpret the Bible for myself. I hate organized religion and everything it stands for.

Well if your interpretation skills were up to par you'd realize that you DO need a spokesman to God. Oh but i'm sure you only interpret the parts of the bible you feel like.

What does technology have to do with religion? You try to make some corollary but it truly fails. It makes no sense.

I am responding to this quote from you. What I understand from the following phrase is that you think God is allowed to change over thousands of years, and not simply within hundreds.

Building blocks over thousands of years, not the course of a century.

Well over those thousands of years, the world barely changed. People were riding horses before the time of Christ, and they were riding horses a hundred years ago.

You are saying that God used to be able to change, as long as it took thousands of years to do so, but he isn't allowed to change anymore.

Building blocks over thousands of years, not the course of a century.

 

[astrocase]

I'm calling a timeout. I think everyone here would be much better off as a Pastafarian. When in doubt, just accept the fact that He made the world with His noodly appendage.

 

[Rage187]

Joseph Smith lifted quite a few of the Masonic rituals, thats all I know.

and Mormons are really nice people and I could only wish that my family dynamic could ever be like what they have.

Heck I'd consider joining if I could raise my kids to respect each other and their parents.

 

[6000SUX]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: 6000SUX

Originally posted by: engineereeyore

Originally posted by: pinion9
I'm out of here for the day. Here is the bottom line: Joe Smith was a fraud and it has been proven that many of his divine revelations came from hoaxes. The religion will not be around in 500 years. While most Mormons are nice, good, caring people, the religion they belong to is built on lies and corruption.

Don't join it, especially for a free ride mission.

I'm sorry, but perhaps you would care to show a lie or corruption rather than one of your misconceptions? Please don't blame our church for your misconceptions.

How about the hoaxes, such as the Egyptian "grammar"?

Sorry, didn't catch that one. Would you mind pointing me to the right place or tell me what page it's on?

It's back a few pages, but I thought it would be more useful to point to a starting place at Wikipedia. Thanks for answering me.

 

[Bartino]

this has definitely been an interesting thread. i think that a lot of people's bad opinions of joseph smith are based on their own ignorance. no ever claimed that he was perfect or that we worship him, so dont think that we hold him on the same pedestal as God, because we dont. he was an imperfect man just like everyone of us, but he had a very special calling as a prophet of God. i dont know every single aspect of his life, but know that as an imperfect man he had imperfections. he sinned, made mistakes, everything you and i do, so who are we to be so judgemental? if you remember, Peter, the head apostle in the Bible, denied Christ three times? there are countless other examples of biblical prophets making mistakes, Jonah, David, Judas, so instead of going straight to the "jospeh smith was a fraud" statement, look at what has happened with God's other prophets and consider that for a second

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: cvrefugee
The adversary is strong with you...it's good you're leaving so you won't spread your lies anymore.

They're not lies if they're the truth!

 

[Coolone]

This thread = teh suck.

I dont see what is that bad about us. I mean sure, we do things that other people think are weird, but it doesnt mean you guys have to always be ripping us a new one. If some of you LDS bashers consider yourselves to be Christian, then I'm in shock, as some of your attitudes arent Christian in the slightest.

I personally try to be a good person. I mean sure, nobody is perfect, but as long as I try my hardest, then I feel that I could stand in front of God and say that I did my best, knowing that the Atonement of Christ would cover for blunders that I as a normal person made.

I'm happy as a Mormon, and theres nothing you can do about it, no matter how much you all hate us. The reason I know its all true is because I asked God, and quite frankly, I trust him far more than I would trust you lot.

 

[astrocase]

Can someone explain the underwear thing. Is that an urban legend?

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: astrocase
Can someone explain the underwear thing. Is that an urban legend?

No, it's not. I'm told that it's in case of the rapture (so you're not naked).