Mormons

[Bartino]

hahaha! they are called garments and they are underwear. that is really all there is to it. basically we just covenant that we will wear them, and we are promised blessings if we do.

 

[msparish]

Originally posted by: engineereeyore
msparish, here's the source, not a "pro-mormon" source, but the source. This is THE document given by the President of this Church.

Accordingly, all worthy male members of the Church may be ordained to the priesthood without regard for race or color.

See that bolded part? You know why they said it would be given to people "without regard for race or color"? Because it previously wasn't!!! They didn't just say color, or negro, or anything else. They said ALL RACE and COLOR.

But like I said, you feel whatever you want and read whatever you want from whatever sources you want. As for me, I'll stick with the only sources that matter on this regard, and that's the leadership of this church.

Your response on the statement "without regard for race or color" is lacking understanding of the English language. Even if one race, or one color had previously been witheld the priesthood, the statement still works. In fact, from a public relations standpoint, it is much preferable to saying that "blacks can now have the priesthood." If you would have read that FAQ I presented, you would realize that this fits perfectly with what I said.

In addition, before the ban there were blacks who could receive the priesthood, such as aborigines. Also, there were whites who could not recieve it, if they had one ancestor descended from Cain (mainly Africans). Those who were not allowed to receive the priesthood, were those who were descended from Cain. My sources are from the leadership of the church. Why do I know this stuff you ask? I was born and raised in the church, went on a mission, married in the temple, etc. Although I am now agnostic, I harbor no animosity towards the church, its members, or its doctrine. Therefore, I have no axe to grind regarding this manner, just presenting unbiased church history.

Again, find me a statement from the church leadership that states that only those from the tribe of Ephraim could have the priesthood before 1978. You won't be able to because it doesn't exist. There is a reason it was called "the curse of Cain."

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Bartino
hahaha! they are called garments and they are underwear. that is really all there is to it. basically we just covenant that we will wear them, and we are promised blessings if we do.

You're promised blessings if you wear funny underwear? Promised by whom? What blessings can you get wearing these funny underwear that you cannot get if you don't wear them?

 

[astrocase]

Originally posted by: Bartino
hahaha! they are called garments and they are underwear. that is really all there is to it. basically we just covenant that we will wear them, and we are promised blessings if we do.

Can you translate that into something I can make sense of? What's so special abut them? Do they look different or something? Do you not wash them?

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: astrocase

Originally posted by: Bartino
hahaha! they are called garments and they are underwear. that is really all there is to it. basically we just covenant that we will wear them, and we are promised blessings if we do.

Can you translate that into something I can make sense of? What's so special abut them? Do they look different or something? Do you not wash them?

and are you totally wtfpwned if you ever take them off?

 

[engineereeyore]

Originally posted by: 6000SUX

It's back a few pages, but I thought it would be more useful to point to a starting place at Wikipedia. Thanks for answering me.

Ok, I'll start with that, then go back and read the post later.

Numerous anachronisms exist in the Book of Abraham which indicate that it was not written in Abraham?s time. One example is the phrase "Ur of the Chaldees," which many scholars now believe was added in the Book of Genesis and Book of Jasher at a later date than when the original text was written (and that the error is perpetuated in the Book of Abraham).

So many believe it was added later, which means others believe it wasn't. Doesn't sound very conclusive.

Joseph Smith?s translation of facsimiles, which are included in the Book of Abraham, do not bear any similarity to modern Egyptologist?s understanding of these figures.

The figures in the facsimilies were not Egyptian alone, but contain Hebrew connotations as well. I would not expect those versed primarily in Egyptian hieroglyphs to come to the same interpretation. Abraham spent a great deal of time in Egypt, but not all of his time. Also, who's to say the Egyptian translation is correct? I would prefer to get a prophets interpretation than a "learned mans".

Joseph Smith kept in his personal diary an ?Egyptian alphabet? which demonstrates his inability to translate Egyptian hieroglyphs.

First, I would like some evidence of this one. Second, Joseph translated the Book of Mormon which was partially written in Egyptian. His translation was verified as being very accurate by Prof. Charles Anthon in the early 1830's, if memory serves. Funny how others are saying differently now. Somebody's wrong. Only God knows who, so why not ask him?

The Joseph Smith Papyri have been determined to be from after 500 B.C., which is at least 1000 years after Abraham?s lifetime. This fact contradicts the introduction to the Book of Abraham, which states that the book represents ?The writings of Abraham while he was in Egypt, called the book of Abraham, written by his own hand, upon papyrus? (see History of the Church, vol. 2, pp. 235, 236, 348-351).

Is it not possible that the original papers which contained this record were damaged and recopied around that time? The age of the paper has absolutely no bearing on the validity of the record. It could only show that the record was rerecorded and nothing else.

Hope that helps.

 

[Bartino]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Bartino
hahaha! they are called garments and they are underwear. that is really all there is to it. basically we just covenant that we will wear them, and we are promised blessings if we do.

You're promised blessings if you wear funny underwear? Promised by whom? What blessings can you get wearing these funny underwear that you cannot get if you don't wear them?

well nik, lets just say that you have such little understanding of the subject that i am not even going to explain it to you. no matter what you think you know from websites/books/whatever, you have no clue about that stuff. you have never been in an LDS temple and so i am not going to talk to you about the stuff that deals with it. ya know it's funny, you make everyone's post sound like a direct attack on non-mormons. why? what does it matter to you what underwear i have on? are you really that concerned about it? because if you are then there must be some inkling of doubt in yourself otherwise you wouldnt care. why attack something that cant harm you? ya know if you were confident in your own belief you wouldnt have a reason to attack others. i could care less what underwear you have on. in fact i dont think it will ever cross my mind my entire life. and even if your church had some special garment i still wouldnt care what it was, because it has nothing to do with me. i would have no reason to wonder about it because i am secure in what i believe. so the mere fact that you are on such an "aggressive" attack mode against the LDS church shows a lot about your own personal beliefs and how insecure you are in them. so why dont we start addressing the real issue, your own insecureity, rather than all of the stupid rumors you have heard/seen which makes you think that you are are more knowledgeable about a church that you dont belong to, but i do

 

[Bartino]

Originally posted by: astrocase

Originally posted by: Bartino
hahaha! they are called garments and they are underwear. that is really all there is to it. basically we just covenant that we will wear them, and we are promised blessings if we do.

Can you translate that into something I can make sense of? What's so special abut them? Do they look different or something? Do you not wash them?

srry, i could see how that wouldnt make much sense. yes they look a little different. not weird different though. yes we wash them, and it is just something that we believe will provide us with protection if we are doing what we should

 

[6000SUX]

I can't ask God. I have no reason to even believe he exists. If I did, I would certainly ask him.

 

[ruffilb]

Dragons in the holy book FTW!

:thumbsup:

 

[astrocase]

Not to offend but this underwear...is it the same pair that you have to wear for your whole life or can you replace it when it's worn out?

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Bartino
well nik, lets just say that you have such little understanding of the subject that i am not even going to explain it to you. no matter what you think you know from websites/books/whatever, you have no clue about that stuff. you have never been in an LDS temple and so i am not going to talk to you about the stuff that deals with it. ya know it's funny, you make everyone's post sound like a direct attack on non-mormons. why? what does it matter to you what underwear i have on? are you really that concerned about it? because if you are then there must be some inkling of doubt in yourself otherwise you wouldnt care. why attack something that cant harm you? ya know if you were confident in your own belief you wouldnt have a reason to attack others. i could care less what underwear you have on. in fact i dont think it will ever cross my mind my entire life. and even if your church had some special garment i still wouldnt care what it was, because it has nothing to do with me. i would have no reason to wonder about it because i am secure in what i believe. so the mere fact that you are on such an "aggressive" attack mode against the LDS church shows a lot about your own personal beliefs and how insecure you are in them. so why dont we start addressing the real issue, your own insecureity, rather than all of the stupid rumors you have heard/seen which makes you think that you are are more knowledgeable about a church that you dont belong to, but i do

Showing someone who full of sh|t their religion is doesn't mean that they're insecure in their own, just that they're interested in getting people out of a terrible religion.

Your ignorant assumptions are an easy cop-out. You don't know where I've been, who I know, what I've studied, what I've been told and by whom, and what experiences I've had in life -but go ahead and continue assuming, though, if that's the justification you need for ignoring good points about your cult!

 

[Bartino]

haha, no i have lots of pairs. you just go get new ones when the ones you have wear out

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Bartino
it is just something that we believe will provide us with protection if we are doing what we should

Clothes are more powerful than prayer? How do clothes protect you What Biblical passage gives you doctrinal basis for such belief?

 

[Molondo]

So, why do you need to join a church to do something good? No other way?

 

[msparish]

Originally posted by: astrocase
Not to offend but this underwear...is it the same pair that you have to wear for your whole life or can you replace it when it's worn out?

It's really not as big of a deal as some people make out of it. You replace it when it wears out, throw it in the laundry when it's dirty. People have several pairs, just like any other underwear they may have. They are basically like boxer-briefs and a t-shirt. So, it's nearly exactly what any man would wear, not quite the same as a woman would normally wear.

 

[Rage187]

Originally posted by: Molondo
So, why do you need to join a church to do something good? No other way?

think of the church of LDS as focused good.

 

[Journer]

Originally posted by: Oscar1613
watch south park

 

[Bartino]

Originally posted by: Nik

Originally posted by: Bartino
well nik, lets just say that you have such little understanding of the subject that i am not even going to explain it to you. no matter what you think you know from websites/books/whatever, you have no clue about that stuff. you have never been in an LDS temple and so i am not going to talk to you about the stuff that deals with it. ya know it's funny, you make everyone's post sound like a direct attack on non-mormons. why? what does it matter to you what underwear i have on? are you really that concerned about it? because if you are then there must be some inkling of doubt in yourself otherwise you wouldnt care. why attack something that cant harm you? ya know if you were confident in your own belief you wouldnt have a reason to attack others. i could care less what underwear you have on. in fact i dont think it will ever cross my mind my entire life. and even if your church had some special garment i still wouldnt care what it was, because it has nothing to do with me. i would have no reason to wonder about it because i am secure in what i believe. so the mere fact that you are on such an "aggressive" attack mode against the LDS church shows a lot about your own personal beliefs and how insecure you are in them. so why dont we start addressing the real issue, your own insecureity, rather than all of the stupid rumors you have heard/seen which makes you think that you are are more knowledgeable about a church that you dont belong to, but i do

Showing someone who full of sh|t their religion is doesn't mean that they're insecure in their own, just that they're interested in getting people out of a terrible religion.

Your ignorant assumptions are an easy cop-out. You don't know where I've been, who I know, what I've studied, what I've been told and by whom, and what experiences I've had in life -but go ahead and continue assuming, though, if that's the justification you need for ignoring good points about your cult!

i do know that it doesnt matter who you have talked to or what you have heard. you have NEVER been in an LDS temple. that i do know, and that is all i need to know. we could care less what you have heard. what have you done? you havent had the first hand experience so all of your eveidence is rumors and hear say. awesome... and if you were really interested in "saving my soul" and making sure i was in the right religion, do you really think insulting me is a good tactic? so there goes that one. in the end, you are just threatened by the LDS church and it's beliefs, which you really shouldnt be, because you have been everywhere, heard everything, and experienced everything right? hmmmm..... it is really easy for people to see thru assumptions and rumors, so maybe you should try for some more creditable sources.

 

[Molondo]

Join the red cross and go where help is serriously needed. In war torn countries.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Bartino
i do know that it doesnt matter who you have talked to or what you have heard. you have NEVER been in an LDS temple. that i do know, and that is all i need to know. we could care less what you have heard. what have you done? you havent had the first hand experience so all of your eveidence is rumors and hear say. awesome... and if you were really interested in "saving my soul" and making sure i was in the right religion, do you really think insulting me is a good tactic? so there goes that one. in the end, you are just threatened by the LDS church and it's beliefs, which you really shouldnt be, because you have been everywhere, heard everything, and experienced everything right? hmmmm..... it is really easy for people to see thru assumptions and rumors, so maybe you should try for some more creditable sources.

Actually, I HAVE been in an LDS temple. Multiple times, in fact. One of my best friends is a Mormon. Several family members are Mormons. What you think you know, just like your cult, is nothing but crap! If you don't want "assumptions and rumors" floating around about your religion, then maybe your religion should stop practicing them.

I'm not interested in saving your soul in the least. As long as you believe that Christ was the divine son of God and you receive the forgiveness He extended with his death on the cross, you're saved. I can't change whether you believe that or not, so I'm not even going to try. However, the other stuff I *can* influence by participating in discussions like this very thread.

The LDS church doesn't threaten my faith at all :laugh: That's very funny, though. Maybe you think so because YOUR religion feels threatened by the curious questions yet to be answered in threads like these. Who knows. I certainly don't, because I'm not you and I can't know what you're thinking (unlike you who apparently knows everything about everyone).

Dinner time, though. Have fun.

 

[Rage187]

Actually, I HAVE been in an LDS temple. Multiple times, in fact.

how did you arrange that? thought they don't let non-mormons in?

 

[HardcoreRobot]

lol its like you are picking a college

life is too short as it is, dont waste it worshipping false idols

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: Rage187

Actually, I HAVE been in an LDS temple. Multiple times, in fact.

how did you arrange that? thought they don't let non-mormons in?

Nah, the guy that I work with goes to a church that lets non-mormons in -you just have to dress funny. Quaint little place, though. I must say that they spend a lot on facilities.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Any religion that won't allow you to drink booze=:thumbsdown: