Moody's warns it may cut California's debt rating

Page 4 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,530
3
0
Originally posted by: winnar111
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
FYI CA isn't the only state hurting. MA is cutting funds to things like Health Care thanks to the deficit Romney strapped us with. Last Christmas the Hospital where my wife worked cut 40% of the positions and might have to cut more this month.

Good. Can we declare Romneycare a failed experiment and ditch it for the rest of the nation?
It's failing because the states largest health insurance company, Blue Cross, and its largest healthcare provider, Partners, have illegally colluded to increase the price of health insurance statewide
.

Text
 

Acanthus

Lifer
Aug 28, 2001
19,915
2
76
ostif.org
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Look what happens when you have a $8+ minimum wage, and tax the shit out of corporations.

Goodbye jobs. Goodbye industry. Goodbye tax revenue.

Pittsburgh is doing alright with a $10 min wage.
 

wwswimming

Banned
Jan 21, 2006
3,702
1
0
since Calif. is earthquake country, it is wise to plan for earthquakes. that means having money
to repair infrastructure in the event of a bigger quake.

right now Calif. is more vulnerable to a large quake than maybe, ever.

if a big quake hit, and did $10 to $100 billion worth of damage, where would the money for
re-construction come from ?
 

JeepinEd

Senior member
Dec 12, 2005
865
54
91
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: OrByte
Arnold tried to get a rainy day fund established in a special election. It didnt go anywhere.

The 2/3rds majority budget law is flawed. Right now the whole state is being held hostage by a Republican party that wont budge on higher taxes.

AND

Democrats that can't cut enough programs to statisfy anyone including the Governor.

A simple majority would have seen a budget passed a long time ago me thinks...

Now with a lower credit rating California will have to borrow at higher rates...so much for trying to save money by cutting programs/jobs.

What's so hard about any of this? If most households understand that when the money isn't there, certain things must be cut, why can't legislatures? And if Californians are horrified at the idea any programs might get cut, send in more money! Paying extra taxes certainly is no crime.



The legislature knows very well what it has to do in order to make ends meet. With taxes from certain sources declining they must either be replaced, or what that money was being spent on eliminated. The Democrats and the governor have tried to make that a mix, the Republicans have held the state hostage to their ideology. Don't take my word for this, check into it yourself.



Actually, the legislature keeps sending budgets to Arnie that include too many tax increases with not enough cuts. It is the balance that the dems will not get right.

I am unaware of any budgets that have been approved by the legislature that have been vetoed by the governor?

About three weeks ago, the legislature submitted a budget in which they tried to bypass the required 2/3 majority for a tax increase by calling the taxes "Fees" instead.
Arnold vetoed it.

Text
 

JohnnyGage

Senior member
Feb 18, 2008
699
0
71
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Hey look what else Winnar doesn't understand! California budgetary politics.

I didn't know California had a budget. I just they just flew by the seat of their pants.
 

OrByte

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
9,302
144
106
Originally posted by: JeepinEd
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: OrByte
Arnold tried to get a rainy day fund established in a special election. It didnt go anywhere.

The 2/3rds majority budget law is flawed. Right now the whole state is being held hostage by a Republican party that wont budge on higher taxes.

AND

Democrats that can't cut enough programs to statisfy anyone including the Governor.

A simple majority would have seen a budget passed a long time ago me thinks...

Now with a lower credit rating California will have to borrow at higher rates...so much for trying to save money by cutting programs/jobs.

What's so hard about any of this? If most households understand that when the money isn't there, certain things must be cut, why can't legislatures? And if Californians are horrified at the idea any programs might get cut, send in more money! Paying extra taxes certainly is no crime.



The legislature knows very well what it has to do in order to make ends meet. With taxes from certain sources declining they must either be replaced, or what that money was being spent on eliminated. The Democrats and the governor have tried to make that a mix, the Republicans have held the state hostage to their ideology. Don't take my word for this, check into it yourself.



Actually, the legislature keeps sending budgets to Arnie that include too many tax increases with not enough cuts. It is the balance that the dems will not get right.

I am unaware of any budgets that have been approved by the legislature that have been vetoed by the governor?

About three weeks ago, the legislature submitted a budget in which they tried to bypass the required 2/3 majority for a tax increase by calling the taxes "Fees" instead.
Arnold vetoed it.

Text
keyword "bypass"

And the republican legislators were locked cocked and ready to rock with legal challenges over that Dem budget. It wasn't going anywhere...

 

winnar111

Banned
Mar 10, 2008
2,847
0
0
Originally posted by: OrByte
keyword "bypass"

And the republican legislators were locked cocked and ready to rock with legal challenges over that Dem budget. It wasn't going anywhere...

They should just use the budget from 2000. Good enough during Clinton's time, good enough now. Should slash about $30 billion.
 

marincounty

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2005
3,227
5
76
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Look what happens when you have a $8+ minimum wage, and tax the shit out of corporations.

Goodbye jobs. Goodbye industry. Goodbye tax revenue.

OMG a whole $8 per hour? You might even be able to afford a burger for lunch on that.
Meanwhile illegals make anywhere from $10 per hour up to $25 per hour.

Somehow $8 per hour is killing our economy?
How about the $200k per year fireman and huge police and prison guard pensions.
That's what's killing California.
Google Vallejo bankruptcy.
 

JeepinEd

Senior member
Dec 12, 2005
865
54
91
Originally posted by: OrByte
Originally posted by: JeepinEd
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: OrByte
Arnold tried to get a rainy day fund established in a special election. It didnt go anywhere.

The 2/3rds majority budget law is flawed. Right now the whole state is being held hostage by a Republican party that wont budge on higher taxes.

AND

Democrats that can't cut enough programs to statisfy anyone including the Governor.

A simple majority would have seen a budget passed a long time ago me thinks...

Now with a lower credit rating California will have to borrow at higher rates...so much for trying to save money by cutting programs/jobs.

What's so hard about any of this? If most households understand that when the money isn't there, certain things must be cut, why can't legislatures? And if Californians are horrified at the idea any programs might get cut, send in more money! Paying extra taxes certainly is no crime.



The legislature knows very well what it has to do in order to make ends meet. With taxes from certain sources declining they must either be replaced, or what that money was being spent on eliminated. The Democrats and the governor have tried to make that a mix, the Republicans have held the state hostage to their ideology. Don't take my word for this, check into it yourself.



Actually, the legislature keeps sending budgets to Arnie that include too many tax increases with not enough cuts. It is the balance that the dems will not get right.

I am unaware of any budgets that have been approved by the legislature that have been vetoed by the governor?

About three weeks ago, the legislature submitted a budget in which they tried to bypass the required 2/3 majority for a tax increase by calling the taxes "Fees" instead.
Arnold vetoed it.

Text
keyword "bypass"

And the republican legislators were locked cocked and ready to rock with legal challenges over that Dem budget. It wasn't going anywhere...

Yeah, it's great when our representatives try to circumvent the law :disgust:

California has the highest taxes in the country, but that's not enough for them. They want to tax us even more. No wonder businesses are leaving in droves. Some of my top accounts have now left the state, mostly for NV and AZ. Hilton is getting ready to leave as well.

How is it that our legislators can increase spending by 50% over the last five years, but they can't seem to be able to make any cuts?
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,227
36
91
Originally posted by: marincounty
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Look what happens when you have a $8+ minimum wage, and tax the shit out of corporations.

Goodbye jobs. Goodbye industry. Goodbye tax revenue.

OMG a whole $8 per hour? You might even be able to afford a burger for lunch on that.
Meanwhile illegals make anywhere from $10 per hour up to $25 per hour.

Somehow $8 per hour is killing our economy?
How about the $200k per year fireman and huge police and prison guard pensions.
That's what's killing California.
Google Vallejo bankruptcy.


That was the biggest fail post other than the Prison Guards union having this state bent over backwards. I will agree with you on that.


If you cant afford what you want on minimum wage, do something to better yourself. Having extra money in the bank is not a right.

Causing businesses to leave and outsource only adds fuel to the fire.
 

marincounty

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2005
3,227
5
76
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Originally posted by: marincounty
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Look what happens when you have a $8+ minimum wage, and tax the shit out of corporations.

Goodbye jobs. Goodbye industry. Goodbye tax revenue.

OMG a whole $8 per hour? You might even be able to afford a burger for lunch on that.
Meanwhile illegals make anywhere from $10 per hour up to $25 per hour.

Somehow $8 per hour is killing our economy?
How about the $200k per year fireman and huge police and prison guard pensions.
That's what's killing California.
Google Vallejo bankruptcy.


That was the biggest fail post other than the Prison Guards union having this state bent over backwards. I will agree with you on that.


If you cant afford what you want on minimum wage, do something to better yourself. Having extra money in the bank is not a right.

Causing businesses to leave and outsource only adds fuel to the fire.

Is the $8 minimum wage causing businesses to leave California? BS.
Find me one business that left California over the $8 minimum wage.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Mursilis
Originally posted by: OrByte
Arnold tried to get a rainy day fund established in a special election. It didnt go anywhere.

The 2/3rds majority budget law is flawed. Right now the whole state is being held hostage by a Republican party that wont budge on higher taxes.

AND

Democrats that can't cut enough programs to statisfy anyone including the Governor.

A simple majority would have seen a budget passed a long time ago me thinks...

Now with a lower credit rating California will have to borrow at higher rates...so much for trying to save money by cutting programs/jobs.

What's so hard about any of this? If most households understand that when the money isn't there, certain things must be cut, why can't legislatures? And if Californians are horrified at the idea any programs might get cut, send in more money! Paying extra taxes certainly is no crime.

Why are you acting like this? Taxation is a collective action problem, no one person is going to send in extra money because the amount an individual would send in would be insignificant and with no guarantee of matching action by others, ultimately pointless.

The legislature knows very well what it has to do in order to make ends meet. With taxes from certain sources declining they must either be replaced, or what that money was being spent on eliminated. The Democrats and the governor have tried to make that a mix, the Republicans have held the state hostage to their ideology. Don't take my word for this, check into it yourself.

California's budget process requires more than a filibuster proof majority every single year in order to accomplish the basic tasks of the legislature such as funding the state. This has allowed an ideological minority to wreck havoc on the state as a whole, and has turned out to be an absolutely terrible idea. While you are more than welcome to push for this on the federal level, sane people will never allow it to happen... so good luck.

Would be interesting to see if you'd held same position if Republicans were in majority. I somehow doubt that. I think it's good minority has a powerful say. All these years worked just fine and built California into richest state. It's only this market and Cal being highly dependent on RE ever increasing which makes them feel the pain more than most ATM. If Democrats had a clue they would open the coasts up to exploration to fund their projects and be like Texas with Billions in surplus. But they control the process, Republicans can only say yea or nay, and Democrats would rather chase 1 million out than drill one well.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,227
36
91
Originally posted by: marincounty
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Originally posted by: marincounty
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Look what happens when you have a $8+ minimum wage, and tax the shit out of corporations.

Goodbye jobs. Goodbye industry. Goodbye tax revenue.

OMG a whole $8 per hour? You might even be able to afford a burger for lunch on that.
Meanwhile illegals make anywhere from $10 per hour up to $25 per hour.

Somehow $8 per hour is killing our economy?
How about the $200k per year fireman and huge police and prison guard pensions.
That's what's killing California.
Google Vallejo bankruptcy.


That was the biggest fail post other than the Prison Guards union having this state bent over backwards. I will agree with you on that.


If you cant afford what you want on minimum wage, do something to better yourself. Having extra money in the bank is not a right.

Causing businesses to leave and outsource only adds fuel to the fire.

Is the $8 minimum wage causing businesses to leave California? BS.
Find me one business that left California over the $8 minimum wage.

No company says "Im leaving because of minimum wage".


They say: "We are closing our California operations due to labor costs" or "We are moving our operations to place XYZ to cut operating expenses" blah blah.

Come on, dont play stupid.

 

marincounty

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2005
3,227
5
76
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Originally posted by: marincounty
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Originally posted by: marincounty
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Look what happens when you have a $8+ minimum wage, and tax the shit out of corporations.

Goodbye jobs. Goodbye industry. Goodbye tax revenue.

OMG a whole $8 per hour? You might even be able to afford a burger for lunch on that.
Meanwhile illegals make anywhere from $10 per hour up to $25 per hour.

Somehow $8 per hour is killing our economy?
How about the $200k per year fireman and huge police and prison guard pensions.
That's what's killing California.
Google Vallejo bankruptcy.


That was the biggest fail post other than the Prison Guards union having this state bent over backwards. I will agree with you on that.


If you cant afford what you want on minimum wage, do something to better yourself. Having extra money in the bank is not a right.

Causing businesses to leave and outsource only adds fuel to the fire.

Is the $8 minimum wage causing businesses to leave California? BS.
Find me one business that left California over the $8 minimum wage.

No company says "Im leaving because of minimum wage".


They say: "We are closing our California operations due to labor costs" or "We are moving our operations to place XYZ to cut operating expenses" blah blah.

Come on, dont play stupid.

You're the one who mentioned the minimum wage, stupid.
And if you can't pay your people $8 per hour in this day and age, you don't have a business.

And California is surrounded by parasiste states like Arizona and Nevada, that are constantly trying to steal our business with property tax breaks and giveaways to corporations. Corporations that have no loyalty to anyone or anything, except profits.
When the next state offers a better deal, they will just pull up and move again.
 

alphatarget1

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2001
5,710
0
76
Originally posted by: marincounty

Somehow $8 per hour is killing our economy?
How about the $200k per year fireman and huge police and prison guard pensions.
That's what's killing California.
Google Vallejo bankruptcy.

Thank you... I don't mind firemen making $$$ but the prison guard unions need to go to hell. I say Ahnuld should outsource our prison system to Russia.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,227
36
91
Originally posted by: marincounty
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Originally posted by: marincounty
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Originally posted by: marincounty
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Look what happens when you have a $8+ minimum wage, and tax the shit out of corporations.

Goodbye jobs. Goodbye industry. Goodbye tax revenue.

OMG a whole $8 per hour? You might even be able to afford a burger for lunch on that.
Meanwhile illegals make anywhere from $10 per hour up to $25 per hour.

Somehow $8 per hour is killing our economy?
How about the $200k per year fireman and huge police and prison guard pensions.
That's what's killing California.
Google Vallejo bankruptcy.


That was the biggest fail post other than the Prison Guards union having this state bent over backwards. I will agree with you on that.


If you cant afford what you want on minimum wage, do something to better yourself. Having extra money in the bank is not a right.

Causing businesses to leave and outsource only adds fuel to the fire.

Is the $8 minimum wage causing businesses to leave California? BS.
Find me one business that left California over the $8 minimum wage.

No company says "Im leaving because of minimum wage".


They say: "We are closing our California operations due to labor costs" or "We are moving our operations to place XYZ to cut operating expenses" blah blah.

Come on, dont play stupid.

You're the one who mentioned the minimum wage, stupid.
And if you can't pay your people $8 per hour in this day and age, you don't have a business.

And California is surrounded by parasiste states like Arizona and Nevada, that are constantly trying to steal our business with property tax breaks and giveaways to corporations. Corporations that have no loyalty to anyone or anything, except profits.
When the next state offers a better deal, they will just pull up and move again.



Yea, those damn businesses trying to maximize profits and not give tax money away to a shitty government like California! Damn those smart businesses!


Wow, you really must be from up North. Blaming businesses for wanting to keep more of thier money. Holy crap.
 

alphatarget1

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2001
5,710
0
76
Originally posted by: marincounty

And California is surrounded by parasiste states like Arizona and Nevada, that are constantly trying to steal our business with property tax breaks and giveaways to corporations. Corporations that have no loyalty to anyone or anything, except profits.
When the next state offers a better deal, they will just pull up and move again.

It's a free country though. CA needs to make adjustments if they want to compete.
 

marincounty

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2005
3,227
5
76
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Originally posted by: marincounty
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Originally posted by: marincounty
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Originally posted by: marincounty
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Look what happens when you have a $8+ minimum wage, and tax the shit out of corporations.

Goodbye jobs. Goodbye industry. Goodbye tax revenue.

OMG a whole $8 per hour? You might even be able to afford a burger for lunch on that.
Meanwhile illegals make anywhere from $10 per hour up to $25 per hour.

Somehow $8 per hour is killing our economy?
How about the $200k per year fireman and huge police and prison guard pensions.
That's what's killing California.
Google Vallejo bankruptcy.


That was the biggest fail post other than the Prison Guards union having this state bent over backwards. I will agree with you on that.


If you cant afford what you want on minimum wage, do something to better yourself. Having extra money in the bank is not a right.

Causing businesses to leave and outsource only adds fuel to the fire.

Is the $8 minimum wage causing businesses to leave California? BS.
Find me one business that left California over the $8 minimum wage.

No company says "Im leaving because of minimum wage".


They say: "We are closing our California operations due to labor costs" or "We are moving our operations to place XYZ to cut operating expenses" blah blah.

Come on, dont play stupid.

You're the one who mentioned the minimum wage, stupid.
And if you can't pay your people $8 per hour in this day and age, you don't have a business.

And California is surrounded by parasiste states like Arizona and Nevada, that are constantly trying to steal our business with property tax breaks and giveaways to corporations. Corporations that have no loyalty to anyone or anything, except profits.
When the next state offers a better deal, they will just pull up and move again.



Yea, those damn businesses trying to maximize profits and not give tax money away to a shitty government like California! Damn those smart businesses!


Wow, you really must be from up North. Blaming businesses for wanting to keep more of thier money. Holy crap.

I'm not blaming businesses for wanting to keep their money. I'm blaming greedy assholes that have no loyalty to their employees, state or locality, and will dump them at the slightest chance to make a few more bucks.

I hope your ass gets laid off and you get replaced by an Indian. Then you can retrain for a new career. It's so easy right? You just have to pull yourself up by your bootstraps.
Just don't try to attend one of the world-class universities here in California. You know, the ones run by our shitty government.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,227
36
91
Originally posted by: marincounty

I'm not blaming businesses for wanting to keep their money. I'm blaming greedy assholes that have no loyalty to their employees, state or locality, and will dump them at the slightest chance to make a few more bucks.

I hope your ass gets laid off and you get replaced by an Indian. Then you can retrain for a new career. It's so easy right? You just have to pull yourself up by your bootstraps.
Just don't try to attend one of the world-class universities here in California. You know, the ones run by our shitty government.


What about the greedy assholes and quazi-socialists like you in government, that think they know what to do with our money better than we do?

CA got caught with its hand in the cookie jar. And your "world class universities" are going to have some major issues with public funding when CA goes completely bankrupt ;)
 

JeepinEd

Senior member
Dec 12, 2005
865
54
91
Originally posted by: alphatarget1
Originally posted by: marincounty

And California is surrounded by parasiste states like Arizona and Nevada, that are constantly trying to steal our business with property tax breaks and giveaways to corporations. Corporations that have no loyalty to anyone or anything, except profits.
When the next state offers a better deal, they will just pull up and move again.

It's a free country though. CA needs to make adjustments if they want to compete.

And they are doing the exact opposite.

Here is a highly abbreviated example of how California treats businesses:

My company uses independent contractors.
The EDD decided they are not getting enough taxes because of that, so they audited us and fined us over $130K.
We appealed to the EDD's Administrative Law Judge.
The judge ruled in our favor.
The EDD said that's nice, we don't care what the ALJ said, so we're overriding him. Now you have 1 year to pay up!

Since we can't afford lawyers to appeal to a "real" court, we've had to lay people off and will now have to change our business model to meet their desires. Whether or not we'll survive remains to be seen. If we go under, that's over 50 people losing their jobs.

Our IC model has been accepted by all the other states in the Union and was accepted here until the EDD changed it's mind. There is no oversight and unless you have really deep pockets, there is nothing that you can do.

 

marincounty

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2005
3,227
5
76
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Originally posted by: marincounty

I'm not blaming businesses for wanting to keep their money. I'm blaming greedy assholes that have no loyalty to their employees, state or locality, and will dump them at the slightest chance to make a few more bucks.

I hope your ass gets laid off and you get replaced by an Indian. Then you can retrain for a new career. It's so easy right? You just have to pull yourself up by your bootstraps.
Just don't try to attend one of the world-class universities here in California. You know, the ones run by our shitty government.


What about the greedy assholes and quazi-socialists like you in government, that think they know what to do with our money better than we do?

CA got caught with its hand in the cookie jar. And your "world class universities" are going to have some major issues with public funding when CA goes completely bankrupt ;)

Didn't Orange County already go bankrupt? Maybe you can give us some pointers on what not to do?
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,227
36
91
Originally posted by: marincounty

Didn't Orange County already go bankrupt? Maybe you can give us some pointers on what not to do?



This is going to make your hippy head spin, so you may want to sit down:


Dont spend more than what you can bring in tax revenue wise :Q

Dont have outrageous tax rates that drive businesses to other states