Moody's warns it may cut California's debt rating

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Maybe they should get the same percentage of Federal Taxes paid out back like N Carolina does. That would help their credit rating quite a bit.

If Californians are so unhappy with the amount of money they get back from Washington, maybe they should stop sending so much? And yet, they continue to elect the sort of politicians who contribute to thier own undoing. Way to go, California.

I'm not arguing that they didn't fuck up but I think they need to be helped because an insolvent California will hurt the rest of the country. Now would be the time for them to get back a larger share of their Federal Taxes in the form of a Bailout.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: senseamp

Ah, OK, so Arnold is a "liberal" and a "middle-ground guy"
Nice to know that Liberalism is the new middle ground

Just like the rabid-lefties voted for Obama, even though he is not going to be signing up for DU any time soon (SEE: FISA vote, hes religious, stance on AQ and Afghanistan, stance on Iran, etc).

Of course conservatives in CA voted for Arnold, because he is the lesser of the two evils.

 

[ayabe]

Good thing they're on the ball now, Moody's and S&P are a big reason we're in this messing by granting bogus AAA ratings to those crap mortgage derivatives.

But hey, it's never too late to stop being part of the problem, right?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: senseamp

Ah, OK, so Arnold is a "liberal" and a "middle-ground guy"
Nice to know that Liberalism is the new middle ground

Just like the rabid-lefties voted for Obama, even though he is not going to be signing up for DU any time soon (SEE: FISA vote, hes religious, stance on AQ and Afghanistan, stance on Iran, etc).

Of course conservatives in CA voted for Arnold, because he is the lesser of the two evils.

Same reason the Rabid Lefties voted for Obama

 

[PokerGuy]

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

It's a shame what liberals have done to the great state of Reagan.

Yes, because none of the red states are facing budgetary shortfalls.

Not on that scale.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: PokerGuy

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

It's a shame what liberals have done to the great state of Reagan.

Yes, because none of the red states are facing budgetary shortfalls.

Not on that scale.

Could that be because none of their economies even come close to the scale of Californias?

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: senseamp

Ah, OK, so Arnold is a "liberal" and a "middle-ground guy"
Nice to know that Liberalism is the new middle ground

Just like the rabid-lefties voted for Obama, even though he is not going to be signing up for DU any time soon (SEE: FISA vote, hes religious, stance on AQ and Afghanistan, stance on Iran, etc).

Of course conservatives in CA voted for Arnold, because he is the lesser of the two evils.

Arnold is a moderate economic conservative, and a moderate social liberal. In reference to this conversation about taxes, Arnold is in no way a liberal.

I'm not sure if people from outside California know this, but the only truly liberal areas of California are LA and San Francisco. They comprise a huge portion of the population, which is why California is a reliably blue state, but that's about it. San Diego and the 'inland empire' are home to some of the craziest hard core conservative people you will ever meet in your entire life. This is why you tend to get a bunch of crazy people elected to the House of Representatives and to the state legislature. Just from around San Diego my town has elected people like Duncan Hunter and Darrell Issa.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: PokerGuy

Originally posted by: DAPUNISHER

It's a shame what liberals have done to the great state of Reagan.

Yes, because none of the red states are facing budgetary shortfalls.

Not on that scale.

Could that be because none of their economies even come close to the scale of Californias?

You do know what a percentage is, don't you Red?

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Maybe they should get the same percentage of Federal Taxes paid out back like N Carolina does. That would help their credit rating quite a bit.

If Californians are so unhappy with the amount of money they get back from Washington, maybe they should stop sending so much? And yet, they continue to elect the sort of politicians who contribute to thier own undoing. Way to go, California.

I'm not arguing that they didn't fuck up but I think they need to be helped because an insolvent California will hurt the rest of the country. Now would be the time for them to get back a larger share of their Federal Taxes in the form of a Bailout.

If that bank bailout has been any guide, I'm willing to take my chances on California going bankrupt. Besides, the Feds aren't exactly the model of fiscal solvency either.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Maybe they should get the same percentage of Federal Taxes paid out back like N Carolina does. That would help their credit rating quite a bit.

If Californians are so unhappy with the amount of money they get back from Washington, maybe they should stop sending so much? And yet, they continue to elect the sort of politicians who contribute to thier own undoing. Way to go, California.

Maybe Californians vote based on more than one issue.

Regardless, California's budget problems stem far more from an inability of its legislature to function than anything else. Because of a retarded provision in the state constitution it requires a 2/3rds majority to pass a budget. This has allowed a minority of lawmakers to completely destroy the budgetary process, and render the legislature incapable of functioning.

The basic story is that the Republican minority in California has said that they will not allow any taxes to be raised. They are a small and shrinking portion of the legislature, but still more than 1/3rd. The Democratic majority, with the support of the governor has attempted to compromise them by closing the budget gap created by the current housing price collapse partially through tax increases and partially through spending cuts. The Republicans have refused, and so instead... nothing has happened, and now California can't pay its bills.

And I'm guessing there's no rainy day fund for the Golden State to draw upon? Regardless, a 2/3 majority to pass a budget sounds like a fine idea. Seems to give the minority additional power to protect itself against the majority. I'd like to see that at the federal level.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Maybe they should get the same percentage of Federal Taxes paid out back like N Carolina does. That would help their credit rating quite a bit.

If Californians are so unhappy with the amount of money they get back from Washington, maybe they should stop sending so much? And yet, they continue to elect the sort of politicians who contribute to thier own undoing. Way to go, California.

Maybe Californians vote based on more than one issue.

Regardless, California's budget problems stem far more from an inability of its legislature to function than anything else. Because of a retarded provision in the state constitution it requires a 2/3rds majority to pass a budget. This has allowed a minority of lawmakers to completely destroy the budgetary process, and render the legislature incapable of functioning.

The basic story is that the Republican minority in California has said that they will not allow any taxes to be raised. They are a small and shrinking portion of the legislature, but still more than 1/3rd. The Democratic majority, with the support of the governor has attempted to compromise them by closing the budget gap created by the current housing price collapse partially through tax increases and partially through spending cuts. The Republicans have refused, and so instead... nothing has happened, and now California can't pay its bills.

And I'm guessing there's no rainy day fund for the Golden State to draw upon? Regardless, a 2/3 majority to pass a budget sounds like a fine idea. Seems to give the minority additional power to protect itself against the majority. I'd like to see that at the federal level.

Arnold tried to get a rainy day fund established in a special election. It didnt go anywhere.

The 2/3rds majority budget law is flawed. Right now the whole state is being held hostage by a Republican party that wont budge on higher taxes.

AND

Democrats that can't cut enough programs to statisfy anyone including the Governor.

A simple majority would have seen a budget passed a long time ago me thinks...

Now with a lower credit rating California will have to borrow at higher rates...so much for trying to save money by cutting programs/jobs.

 

[Mursilis]

Originally posted by: OrByte
Arnold tried to get a rainy day fund established in a special election. It didnt go anywhere.

The 2/3rds majority budget law is flawed. Right now the whole state is being held hostage by a Republican party that wont budge on higher taxes.

AND

Democrats that can't cut enough programs to statisfy anyone including the Governor.

A simple majority would have seen a budget passed a long time ago me thinks...

Now with a lower credit rating California will have to borrow at higher rates...so much for trying to save money by cutting programs/jobs.

What's so hard about any of this? If most households understand that when the money isn't there, certain things must be cut, why can't legislatures? And if Californians are horrified at the idea any programs might get cut, send in more money! Paying extra taxes certainly is no crime.

 

[Red Dawn]

FYI CA isn't the only state hurting. MA is cutting funds to things like Health Care thanks to the deficit Romney strapped us with. Last Christmas the Hospital where my wife worked cut 40% of the positions and might have to cut more this month.

 

[bbdub333]

Indiana has a surplus... just thought I would throw that out.

 

[HardcoreRobot]

unsunstainable governments NEED to fail

 

[Fear No Evil]

Yeah I am sure California has cut to the BONE.. there is NOTHING else they can possibly cut.. :roll:

 

[winnar111]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
FYI CA isn't the only state hurting. MA is cutting funds to things like Health Care thanks to the deficit Romney strapped us with. Last Christmas the Hospital where my wife worked cut 40% of the positions and might have to cut more this month.

Good. Can we declare Romneycare a failed experiment and ditch it for the rest of the nation?

 

[StageLeft]

CA is terrible, just terrible.

It'll be really interesting to see if this recession is mild or substantial in its reducation of the people of this country and give them a lesson in paying as one goes and stopping constantly living under ever-mounting debt.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: GTKeeper

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Look what happens when you have a $8+ minimum wage, and tax the shit out of corporations.

Goodbye jobs. Goodbye industry. Goodbye tax revenue.

A nice closed-minded post.

What are you an economics professor?

Explain where my logic is wrong please:

Businesses leave because labor costs are too high and they get taxed too much.

That and retarded regulations - look up the recent proposition that regulates how much space you must have to have a chicken farm in cali. That industry will be dead in 5 years in that state.

chicken

They can't go out of business fast enough in my opinion. I buy range free cageless chicken
and chicken soup tastes like chicken soup again and neighborhoods are starting to request changes in zoning laws so people can raise their own. Chickens means chicken shit and that's good for the vegetables.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: GTKeeper

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Look what happens when you have a $8+ minimum wage, and tax the shit out of corporations.

Goodbye jobs. Goodbye industry. Goodbye tax revenue.

A nice closed-minded post.

What are you an economics professor?

Explain where my logic is wrong please:

Businesses leave because labor costs are too high and they get taxed too much.

That and retarded regulations - look up the recent proposition that regulates how much space you must have to have a chicken farm in cali. That industry will be dead in 5 years in that state.

chicken

They can't go out of business fast enough in my opinion. I buy range free cageless chicken
and chicken soup tastes like chicken soup again and neighborhoods are starting to request changes in zoning laws so people can raise their own. Chickens means chicken shit and that's good for the vegetables.

Wait a second, I thought people already changed zoning to get chickens OUT of their neighborhoods. Make up your damn minds.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: halik

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: GTKeeper

Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Look what happens when you have a $8+ minimum wage, and tax the shit out of corporations.

Goodbye jobs. Goodbye industry. Goodbye tax revenue.

A nice closed-minded post.

What are you an economics professor?

Explain where my logic is wrong please:

Businesses leave because labor costs are too high and they get taxed too much.

That and retarded regulations - look up the recent proposition that regulates how much space you must have to have a chicken farm in cali. That industry will be dead in 5 years in that state.

chicken

They can't go out of business fast enough in my opinion. I buy range free cageless chicken
and chicken soup tastes like chicken soup again and neighborhoods are starting to request changes in zoning laws so people can raise their own. Chickens means chicken shit and that's good for the vegetables.

Wait a second, I thought people already changed zoning to get chickens OUT of their neighborhoods. Make up your damn minds.

Cosmic cycles, my dear man, cosmic cycles!

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: OrByte
Arnold tried to get a rainy day fund established in a special election. It didnt go anywhere.

The 2/3rds majority budget law is flawed. Right now the whole state is being held hostage by a Republican party that wont budge on higher taxes.

AND

Democrats that can't cut enough programs to statisfy anyone including the Governor.

A simple majority would have seen a budget passed a long time ago me thinks...

Now with a lower credit rating California will have to borrow at higher rates...so much for trying to save money by cutting programs/jobs.

What's so hard about any of this? If most households understand that when the money isn't there, certain things must be cut, why can't legislatures? And if Californians are horrified at the idea any programs might get cut, send in more money! Paying extra taxes certainly is no crime.

Why are you acting like this? Taxation is a collective action problem, no one person is going to send in extra money because the amount an individual would send in would be insignificant and with no guarantee of matching action by others, ultimately pointless.

The legislature knows very well what it has to do in order to make ends meet. With taxes from certain sources declining they must either be replaced, or what that money was being spent on eliminated. The Democrats and the governor have tried to make that a mix, the Republicans have held the state hostage to their ideology. Don't take my word for this, check into it yourself.

California's budget process requires more than a filibuster proof majority every single year in order to accomplish the basic tasks of the legislature such as funding the state. This has allowed an ideological minority to wreck havoc on the state as a whole, and has turned out to be an absolutely terrible idea. While you are more than welcome to push for this on the federal level, sane people will never allow it to happen... so good luck.

 

[theeedude]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: senseamp

Ah, OK, so Arnold is a "liberal" and a "middle-ground guy"
Nice to know that Liberalism is the new middle ground

Just like the rabid-lefties voted for Obama, even though he is not going to be signing up for DU any time soon (SEE: FISA vote, hes religious, stance on AQ and Afghanistan, stance on Iran, etc).

Of course conservatives in CA voted for Arnold, because he is the lesser of the two evils.

He is not just the guy they voted for, he's also the guy they nominated, and renominated. He's the candidate that conservatives wanted to put forward and vote for.

 

[OCGuy]

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: OrByte
Arnold tried to get a rainy day fund established in a special election. It didnt go anywhere.

The 2/3rds majority budget law is flawed. Right now the whole state is being held hostage by a Republican party that wont budge on higher taxes.

AND

Democrats that can't cut enough programs to statisfy anyone including the Governor.

A simple majority would have seen a budget passed a long time ago me thinks...

Now with a lower credit rating California will have to borrow at higher rates...so much for trying to save money by cutting programs/jobs.

What's so hard about any of this? If most households understand that when the money isn't there, certain things must be cut, why can't legislatures? And if Californians are horrified at the idea any programs might get cut, send in more money! Paying extra taxes certainly is no crime.

The legislature knows very well what it has to do in order to make ends meet. With taxes from certain sources declining they must either be replaced, or what that money was being spent on eliminated. The Democrats and the governor have tried to make that a mix, the Republicans have held the state hostage to their ideology. Don't take my word for this, check into it yourself.

Actually, the legislature keeps sending budgets to Arnie that include too many tax increases with not enough cuts. It is the balance that the dems will not get right.

 

[fskimospy]

Originally posted by: Ocguy31

Originally posted by: eskimospy

Originally posted by: Mursilis

Originally posted by: OrByte
Arnold tried to get a rainy day fund established in a special election. It didnt go anywhere.

The 2/3rds majority budget law is flawed. Right now the whole state is being held hostage by a Republican party that wont budge on higher taxes.

AND

Democrats that can't cut enough programs to statisfy anyone including the Governor.

A simple majority would have seen a budget passed a long time ago me thinks...

Now with a lower credit rating California will have to borrow at higher rates...so much for trying to save money by cutting programs/jobs.

What's so hard about any of this? If most households understand that when the money isn't there, certain things must be cut, why can't legislatures? And if Californians are horrified at the idea any programs might get cut, send in more money! Paying extra taxes certainly is no crime.

The legislature knows very well what it has to do in order to make ends meet. With taxes from certain sources declining they must either be replaced, or what that money was being spent on eliminated. The Democrats and the governor have tried to make that a mix, the Republicans have held the state hostage to their ideology. Don't take my word for this, check into it yourself.

Actually, the legislature keeps sending budgets to Arnie that include too many tax increases with not enough cuts. It is the balance that the dems will not get right.

I am unaware of any budgets that have been approved by the legislature that have been vetoed by the governor?