Mods, Please lock this sucker up

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: zod
Andre's facial features and bone structure fit in quite perfectly into modern human parameters. He possesses every feature that make us a coherent species.

I guess I shouldn't use theory, then, because no beginning of time hypothesis has yet to be proven.

Ask a physicist about beginning of time hypotheses (big band and stuff).
We're discussing the Theory of Evolution, which by its very nature as a Theory (like Gravity) means it has been confirmed through repeated experimental tests.

I don't believe in evolution because it leads to beliefs that the world is billions of years old. There is evidence toward Darwin's observations. There is evidence toward the Bible's observations. Evolution says that the world has to be billions of years old, right? Why is it that when scientists first started picking apart evolution and defining it, the world was only supposed to be millions of years old? Then, since what they themselves realized that what they were saying happens couldn't possibly happen in such a short amount of time, it had to be hundreds of millions of years? Then, changing their story again, had to be billions of years? Now it's hundreds of billions of years ago?

When I was in gradeschool, I remember the local public school teaching that the universe was only a few million years old.

Things just don't add up.

I choose to believe a book and a way of life that is rock solid and doesn't change to fit the hypothesis.

nik

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: tweakmm

Originally posted by: petrek

Now I'm going to have to explain it to you. We have advanced so much in the past 100 years because of this thing I like to call "The Industrial Revolution". And we advanced quickly in the past 5-10,000 years because of this thing I like to call "farming".

Many thousands of years ago, humans were hunters and gatherers. This as an easy life. They went around picking fruits, nuts, and berries, and hunting game. This was and always will be the most efficient way of obtaining food. They only had to work for two days a week, using our standards of a day's work. Then the hunters and gatherers, because of population expansion, started encroaching on each others' territory. They were running out of land. So they started slash and burn farming, which more intensively used the land. This was harder work than hunting and gathering. Then this became unviable with further population growth, because the land had to lie fallow for 20-30 years. So people started settling down and practicing substistence plough agriculture. This was even more work than slash and burn, but got more food out of the same land. Later, farms were taken over by aristocrats, and farmers found themselves working even harder to make money to buy food that they could easily grow themselves in times past. So they moved to the cities to find non existent work. Eventually factories were started, with assembly lines and specialized jobs. This, along with mechanization, led to the industrial revolution.

Why did farming take so much time, yet such an explosion in the last 100 years?

the technology boom coinicides with the population boom

So... fscking makes people smarter? WOOHOO!!

nik

 

[zod]

Yes, but you seem to have missed the point that he's a giant!

Yes, his body size exceeds most human norms, but every bit of his physiology fits into our understanding of Homo sapiens. Body size isn't the only thing that determines what species you are in.

For example, Australopithecus africanus varied a lot in body size. The males were quite a bit bigger than the females.

 

[petrek]

My problem is this: religion is bashed on a weekly basis here.

God says that is exactly what would happen, that is what did happen and that is what will continue to happen. Christ died not because of what he did, but because people did not like his message of Salvation.

PS
There is no need for you to swear at other people, especially since you refer to yourself as a Christian, it makes Christ look bad. Please keep in control of yourself and don't swear at me anymore for expressing what I believe based on the Word of God. If you have such a hard time controlling yourself, maybe it would be best for you to avoid these discussions.

 

[petrek]

the technology boom coinicides with the population boom

That still doesn't explain the timeline.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: petrek

My problem is this: religion is bashed on a weekly basis here.

God says that is exactly what would happen, that is what did happen and that is what will continue to happen. Christ died not because of what he did, but because people did not like his message of Salvation.

PS
There is no need for you to swear at other people, especially since you refer to yourself as a Christian, it makes Christ look bad. Please keep in control of yourself and don't swear at me anymore for expressing what I believe based on the Word of God. If you have such a hard time controlling yourself, maybe it would be best for you to avoid these discussions.

You're telling me about my own religion?

I hardly need any study from you unless you're a Seminary grad. You seem to miss the part where I'm human (read: fallible). You also seem to miss the part where He gave us a free will to choose on our own. Don't tell me what to do or how to present my faith. That's not your job and you have no place doing so.

nik

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: petrek

the technology boom coinicides with the population boom

That still doesn't explain the timeline.

Or the fact that fscking seems to make people smarter

nik

 

[petrek]

Yes, his body size exceeds most human norms, but every bit of his physiology fits into our understanding of Homo sapiens. Body size isn't the only thing that determines what species you are in.

Ya, but what if they only found his hip bone, you missed the point.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: petrek

Yes, his body size exceeds most human norms, but every bit of his physiology fits into our understanding of Homo sapiens. Body size isn't the only thing that determines what species you are in.

Ya, but what if they only found his hip bone, you missed the point.

Yup. They'd say that it was some new form of evolutionary species. Then the Christians would come out going "IT'S FROM AN ELEPHANT! IT'S FROM AN ELEPHANT!"

nik

 

[petrek]

Zod, it's not only geologic time, I've seen the shows and read the articles numerous times. The popping aspect theory does exist, and any knowledgeable individual on the theories out there knows that. Jay Gould isn't the only proponent of such speculative ideas on how plasma came to represent all the species currently in existance.

 

[zod]

I don't believe in evolution because it leads to beliefs that the world is billions of years old. There is evidence toward Darwin's observations. There is evidence toward the Bible's observations. Evolution says that the world has to be billions of years old, right? Why is it that when scientists first started picking apart evolution and defining it, the world was only supposed to be millions of years old? Then, since what they themselves realized that what they were saying happens couldn't possibly happen in such a short amount of time, it had to be hundreds of millions of years? Then, changing their story again, had to be billions of years? Now it's hundreds of billions of years ago?

Yes. There is evidence towards Darwins observations.
Yes, there is evidence toward the Bible's observations (much of its history has been verified).
Evolution does need a long time to work usually.

The questions about the age of the earth are a PERFECT example of the limited bias in science as a whole. As we learned more and more, we refined our understanding about our world. Scientists do not cling on to a hypothesis if the data doesn't support it.

Evolutionists weren't the ones to define the age of the earth.
In 1862 Kelvin estimated the age of the Earth to be 98 million years, based on a model of the rate of cooling.
We have known that the Earth is more than a few millions years old for a century. Unless you are really old, in school, you were taught that the earth is "around" 4-5 billion years old.
Currently the best estimate of the age of the Earth is 4.55 billion years. Text

No one says the earth is hundreds of billions of years old.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

The original post's link. If you look around in it, there's some article saying that it's 3,xxx billion years old. That's more than a few hundred billion.

nik

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Anyways, I'm sick of arguing. This happens every goddamn time a religion/atheism/creationism/evolutionism thread comes up. And, since I'm not feeling well, it's only making things worse.

I'm going to go en-act some evolution for the rest of the night: man coming at me with a rifle evolving to leaky piece of meat

/me clicks the Soldier of Fortune II: Double Helix link from his quick-links

 

[zod]

ffm -

I choose to believe a book and a way of life that is rock solid and doesn't change to fit the hypothesis.

It doesn't change to fit the evidence . Thats the problem. Look at the evidence (for yourself if you want), not what other people make of them.

petrek -

Ya, but what if they only found his hip bone, you missed the point.

Right, but they didn't find one neandertal fossil. We have found hundreds and hundreds. All around the same area (europe and the middle east), all around the same time. Armed with this evidence, we can begin to understand what happened.

If someone found a big pelvis that looks like a modern human pelvis, but was bigger, I have faith that scientists would figure out that it belongs to our species. And if not, we'd have a single isolated fossil with no skull. Nothing much to get exited about.

 

[Joemonkey]

I'm still trying to figure out why all you bastards can't just agree to disagree

 

[zod]

petrek -
I'm not sure what popping theory you are referring to if it isn't punctuated equilibrium.

ffmcobalt -
Send me the link that a scientist says the world is a few hundred billion years old. Our galaxy isn't that old.

 

[WinkOsmosis]

Originally posted by: petrek

Now I'm going to have to explain it to you. We have advanced so much in the past 100 years because of this thing I like to call "The Industrial Revolution". And we advanced quickly in the past 5-10,000 years because of this thing I like to call "farming".

Many thousands of years ago, humans were hunters and gatherers. This as an easy life. They went around picking fruits, nuts, and berries, and hunting game. This was and always will be the most efficient way of obtaining food. They only had to work for two days a week, using our standards of a day's work. Then the hunters and gatherers, because of population expansion, started encroaching on each others' territory. They were running out of land. So they started slash and burn farming, which more intensively used the land. This was harder work than hunting and gathering. Then this became unviable with further population growth, because the land had to lie fallow for 20-30 years. So people started settling down and practicing substistence plough agriculture. This was even more work than slash and burn, but got more food out of the same land. Later, farms were taken over by aristocrats, and farmers found themselves working even harder to make money to buy food that they could easily grow themselves in times past. So they moved to the cities to find non existent work. Eventually factories were started, with assembly lines and specialized jobs. This, along with mechanization, led to the industrial revolution.{/Q]

Why did farming take so much time, yet such an explosion in the last 100 years?

Because farming was only done as a necessity. People knew for thousands of years before that seeds = plants = food. They had no need to farm until population density reached the point where hunting and gathering was no longer an option.

 

[petrek]

You're telling me about my own religion? I hardly need any study from you unless you're a Seminary grad.

One need not be a seminary grad to be offended when an individual who calls themself a Christian swears at them, and for that matter swears constantly in his posts.

You seem to miss the part where I'm human (read: fallible). You also seem to miss the part where He gave us a free will to choose on our own. Don't tell me what to do or how to present my faith. That's not your job and you have no place doing so.

Please provide Scripture where it suggests that you should do what you are doing, namely making a mockery of Christ.

 

[oLLie]

Live and let live, you're all wasting your energy.

 

[Phuz]

petrek, you still disregarded my post and then asked a silly question that was, in fact, answered in my post.

You're also not really worth arguing with... you see/hear only what you want to hear.

 

[petrek]

Because farming was only done as a necessity. People knew for thousands of years before that seeds = plants = food. They had no need to farm until population density reached the point where hunting and gathering was no longer an option.

Please take the time to think your argument through from various angles.

 

[petrek]

Right, but they didn't find one neandertal fossil. We have found hundreds and hundreds. All around the same area (europe and the middle east), all around the same time. Armed with this evidence, we can begin to understand what happened.

If someone found a big pelvis that looks like a modern human pelvis, but was bigger, I have faith that scientists would figure out that it belongs to our species. And if not, we'd have a single isolated fossil with no skull. Nothing much to get exited about.

You admit then that you have faith in men. Even though these men have proven over and over again that they are wrong, that what they were led to believe is false. You might also want to do some more studying in the area of anthropology, in regards to all the "fossil evidence" because quite frankly it doesn't exist.

 

[petrek]

Well phuz, quite frankly you didn't say anything in your post that I didn't know. I'm not hear to make your life interesting. I'm in this discussion simply because an earlier individual asked a legitimate question. Once again, prove that one species can change into another species, there is no proof for that and no amount of suggestion on your part that I am blind will change that fact.

PS
Your post did not answer my question, so it didn't need to be answered, which is why I questioned what bilogy was.

 

[WinkOsmosis]

Originally posted by: petrek

Right, but they didn't find one neandertal fossil. We have found hundreds and hundreds. All around the same area (europe and the middle east), all around the same time. Armed with this evidence, we can begin to understand what happened.

If someone found a big pelvis that looks like a modern human pelvis, but was bigger, I have faith that scientists would figure out that it belongs to our species. And if not, we'd have a single isolated fossil with no skull. Nothing much to get exited about.

You admit then that you have faith in men. Even though these men have proven over and over again that they are wrong, that what they were led to believe is false. You might also want to do some more studying in the area of anthropology, in regards to all the "fossil evidence" because quite frankly it doesn't exist.

Where did you learn your anthropology??

 

[petrek]

Where did you learn your anthropology??

Books, magazines, TV, University.