petrek - i have some questions about being a reborn christian. if one becomes reborn, is it impossible to go to hell? under any circumstances? can they become "unborn?" in essence, i'm asking if one becomes reborn, is there any possible way for them to go to hell after they become reborn?
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16
If one accepts Christ, one is by definition reborn, and being that God can not lie. One who believes in Christ HAS everlasting life.
So to answer your question a Christian (Born again Christian if you prefer) can't go to hell, it is impossible. If God says you will have everlasting life by believing in Christ then you will have everlasting life, period, end of discussion.
Dave
PS
It is possible however, for one to lose the joy (assurance) of their salvation. However, even if one dies without that assurance of salvation, God does not forget his promise, and most assuredly if that individual did accept Christ into their heart they will spend eternity in Heaven. (Edit: I know that one can lose the joy of their Salvation because of Biblical precidence, King David lost it)
that troubles me. i have a problem believing that it does not matter what one does on earth, they will be guaranteed entry to heaven if they believe in christ. is that what it comes down to?
petrek: I'd be interested to hear your response to 2 Peter, Chapter 2 (whole chapter, especially verses 20-22), which addresses this very issue.
The link to the site is in the first thread. You're a big boy; you can look around on your own.
nik
Someone who follows evolution theory more closely than I, how old do evolution scientists generally believe man is? By "man" I mean "men" evolved enough to live in tribes or whatnot, organized somewhat.
i understand that life on earth is temporary, and we're only here for the briefest of moments compared to the rest of eternity.
but i cannot accept a religion that says it doesn't matter what you do on earth if you accept their lord as their savior. i'm not sure that if one lies, steals, rapes, murders, etc. they have honestly accepted christ, so if that's the case then i suppose it becomes debatable. but if one can commit all of the aforementioned acts knowing that since they accepted christ they can go to heaven, then i and any other rational human has no choice but to reject that religion.
but i cannot accept a religion that says it doesn't matter what you do on earth if you accept their lord as their savior. i'm not sure that if one lies, steals, rapes, murders, etc. they have honestly accepted christ, so if that's the case then i suppose it becomes debatable. but if one can commit all of the aforementioned acts knowing that since they accepted christ they can go to heaven, then i and any other rational human has no choice but to reject that religion.
The issue is "knowledge" vs. "acceptance". One who is explicitly exposed to the Truth and rejects it is worse off than one who has not been exposed.
And that is for God to know (if they genuinely accepted Him). I would say that if a man genuinely accepts the Lord, then he is cleansed of all his sins, but if he is false with the Lord he is not. It's not mans' place to judge if another man is genuine or not (although sometimes it is obvious).
Can you love your mother with all your heart and still forget her birthday?
Ultimately it's up to God's judgement.
ok...
personally, do you believe that someone can do all that bad stuff and still go to heaven? if so, what is the incentive to be a good person on earth?
So which is it? How can one "have escaped the pollutions of the world" through just "explicit exposure?"
"Escaped" seemes to me an awfully strong word to describe the state of someone who has only been "explicitly exposed" to the idea of Christ, and not accepted Christ.
You'll agree that it is only through Christ that Christians are justified, since mankind (including Christians) is irrevocably linked to sin.
I'm hard-pressed to find a better definition of sin than "pollutions of the world."
You'll also agree that someone is not redeemed simply by knowledge (even explicit knowledge) of Christ.
It is the acceptance by faith that Jesus Christ--the Son of God--is Lord and Savior, and that only through Christ can one be saved.
So, someone who has "escaped" sin implies more than just "exposure" to the knowledge of Christ.
It suggests "acceptance," which is a whole other ballgame...
Yes, but that depends if they genuinely believe or not, and more likely than not, if they did those things after they claimed to believe, then they probably did not. If they did these things beforehand, it's harder to tell. I'm really not sure where you're trying to go with this, though. What someone else believes or claims to believe is between them and God. The Bible does mention incentives (ie rewards in Heaven) for doing good works on earth, aside from just faith.
I need some sleep, I'll catch this thread later
I think you can hear the message and think to yourself, "This adultery/crime/fornication/etc is wrong, I will stop (escape) doing it," but then not actually accept Jesus as Lord and Savior. You could even start attending church or whatnot and still not have genuinely accepted. You later slip away without ever accepting it in your heart and return to sinful ways. This is how I interpret it, but I would like to study it more as well.
Again, I'm out!
The answer is YES. (Altho perhaps not in the order you phrased the original question [dolph: can someone truly accept christ and still steal/rape/kill?]).
Someone can be the most heinous, murderous, awful piece of slime this world has ever seen, and still be saved. And here's why...
The Lord is talking to Peter, who is supposed to bring the news of salvation to the Gentiles (non-Jews). Peter's resisting doing it. Peter is shown a vision of all manner of animals that were considered by Jews to be "unclean." Peter is told to kill and eat in his vision, but he refuses, explaining that he has never eaten anything unclean. But in the aforementioned verse he is told NOT to call anything unclean which the Lord has cleansed...meaning not just animals, but people.
Now, some folks might say "Well, I lived a good life, giving up a lot of 'bad' stuff...and you're telling me that someone can just have a big ol' sinful time their whole life, and at the very last minute...BE SAVED?"
Again, the answer is YES.
The rest of the verses in Luke 15 tell the parable of the prodigal son. Just so everyone's on the same wavelength, the younger son of a weathy man squanders his inheritance, and finds himself destitute and starving. He ashamedly returns home to throw himself on his father's mercy. Instead the son is welcomed, restored, and the entire household rejoices. This is what happens when someone accepts Christ.
The last half of the story, which definitely applies to the issue at hand, concerns the older brother--the one who stayed and worked faithfully. He is resentful of the celebration for his younger brother (and some folks might say "rightly so"). The response from the father is God's response:
The behavior of the younger brother in the first part of the story is important here. He is ashamed of what he had done, and would trade places with the older brother in a heartbeat, to not have to know the pain of the error of his own ways. But despite that....he is forgiven, absolutely and without question by his father.
That's one "reason" I consider it important to be saved NOW, rather than later.
The other is this...
When folks ask me the question about "sinning to the last minute"...I ask them these kinds of questions:
"How well did you time your portfolio last year? Did you get out of the market 'in time?'
Then how do you know WHEN your last minute will be?"
I was drawing a relationship between the population and technology because who has the ideas for technology? People. When there are more people to think up ideas and invent new things, the level of technology is going to go up faster.Originally posted by: ffmcobalt
Or the fact that fscking seems to make people smarter
Alas, live and let live guys. I don't have the energy to waste on this thread anymore
lets say that a supernatural all powerful being exists, then how can anyone be sure that one religion is more correct than the other?
since there are so many religions isnt it more possible that they are all wrong than one is correct? expecialy in the light of the fact that religions come and go
since there are so many religions isnt it more possible that they are all wrong than one is correct? expecialy in the light of the fact that religions come and go
Originally posted by: ffmcobalt
I don't believe in evolution because it leads to beliefs that the world is billions of years old. There is evidence toward Darwin's observations. There is evidence toward the Bible's observations. Evolution says that the world has to be billions of years old, right? Why is it that when scientists first started picking apart evolution and defining it, the world was only supposed to be millions of years old? Then, since what they themselves realized that what they were saying happens couldn't possibly happen in such a short amount of time, it had to be hundreds of millions of years? Then, changing their story again, had to be billions of years? Now it's hundreds of billions of years ago?
When I was in gradeschool, I remember the local public school teaching that the universe was only a few million years old.
Things just don't add up.
I choose to believe a book and a way of life that is rock solid and doesn't change to fit the hypothesis.
nik
I think u got ur facts and numbers wrong, the assumed age of the earth hasnt changed in my lifetime and it certainly wasnt changed to fit some theory ... lol
I wonder when u went to grade school (1800 maybe) but when I went to grade school the age of earth was around 4-5 billion years (5x10^9) which it is still today maybe the numbers change a little (as more modern equipment becomes available) but certainly not orders of magnitude. The universe has become slightly older since grade school - which is just natural since we can see more distant objects nowadays.
Originally posted by: JC
A 'Get Out of Going to Hell' card?
So the fact that I was baptized and went through confirmation before realizing I really didn't believe any of it means I'm going to heaven?
I don't get it. If something is explained differently by science - a process where theories are formed and then TESTED (simulated, sometimes) - you would rather accept an explanation given with the reason "it is that way because that is how it is" than the one that can be shown to be true?
2+2=5. Believe me. Have faith. So what if science says it is wrong? <-- example of why I don't get the idea of faith.
TRENDING THREADS
-
Discussion Zen 5 Speculation (EPYC Turin and Strix Point/Granite Ridge - Ryzen 9000)- Started by DisEnchantment
- Replies: 25K
-
Discussion Intel Meteor, Arrow, Lunar & Panther Lakes + WCL Discussion Threads
- Started by Tigerick
- Replies: 22K
-
News NVIDIA and Intel to Develop AI Infrastructure and Personal Computing Products- Started by poke01
- Replies: 385
-
Discussion Intel current and future Lakes & Rapids thread- Started by TheF34RChannel
- Replies: 23K
Facebook
Twitter