[MMO] World of Tanks

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PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
0
0
Nope. You're just plain wrong. I've come to ignore anybody that says "well if you get hit by arty you're not moving around enough". That's bullshit, arty can hit you on the move VERY easily if they have half a brain cell.

With my obj212 I can snipe targets whenever I want, slower targets just make it easier. I've 1 shotted almost every single tier 8 tank, a handful of tier 9 mediums and dealt crippling damage to tier 10 heavies with one single bullet. The only thing big arties can't reliably hit is a good scout, and even then when they get close enough you have a 50/50 chance of instagibbing them. If you're in a good position, you can hit tanks sitting BEHIND rocks and buildings. Maybe if you don't move more than 5 feet from the spawn, then there will be a bunch of places that you can't hit. But that makes you bad@arty.

Play a big arty (something that's not a priest or a hummel) and then come back and tell me how you can't "penetrate" tanks. A near splash from a T92 or M40/43 will take off 400-700 from you. A direct hit and you're looking at over 1k-2k damage. A penetrating hit and you're most likely dead. My obj212 near splashes will take off 200-600, depending on the squishiness of the tank. I generally do about 400-500 to a T110E5, and closer to 200 on armored targets like maus or E100.

Fun fact: A t92's gold shell has 370 penetration. That's enough to go through the E75's front turret, arguably one of the strongest armor in the game. Hell, it'll probably go through the front armor of a T95. This is ignoring the fact that arty shells are ARCED, so they will probably go into the much softer parts of tanks, like the engine decks and turret tops. Most of my penetrating shots are into the sides of tanks though. This is without gold or AP rounds.

Again, play with or against big arty and you'll understand why nobody plays tier 10 pubs. Getting 2 shotted is VERY common, even in a maus.

And fuck rated MM. It means i'll have to play with scrubs all day to carry them. Why should I be penalized just because I have a 58% winrate? Win your own fucking games, thanks.
 
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Daverino

Platinum Member
Mar 15, 2007
2,004
1
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Fun fact: A t92's gold shell has 370 penetration. That's enough to go through the E75's front turret, arguably one of the strongest armor in the game. Hell, it'll probably go through the front armor of a T95. This is ignoring the fact that arty shells are ARCED, so they will probably go into the much softer parts of tanks, like the engine decks and turret tops. Most of my penetrating shots are into the sides of tanks though. This is without gold or AP rounds
Negative.

The T92's AP round has 370 penetration. That's not the gold round. The AP round will give you 370 penetration at the cost of all splash damage. If you do not get a direct hit that penetrates you will do zero damage with the AP round. It's only useful against completely stationary targets.

Compared to the *actual* gold round of the T92, which is a high explosive shot with a massive radius, the AP round is worthless. The T92 with gold rounds is devastating. It does not need direct hits to cripple anything on the board. Coming close to a scout will wipe it off the map. Throw in the good mobility and great traverse which allows for effective target leading, the T92 is a ridiculous piece of kit
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
0
0
My mistake: was looking at the WOT wiki and they list the gold shells on the right, not the middle.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,067
498
126
Only the german 88s (and the italian equivalent, forgot the number) have been used in direct fire effectively, hence the adoption of the 88 as AT guns later on. However, the 152mm from the SU-152 was originally an artillery piece as well, and the 105mm derp as well.

In WOT Arty are more like naval guns than SPGs. In its current incarnation, you're right. Arty shouldn't be in the game at all. I'd much rather see arty shells doing a big AOE effect that fires faster and does less damage instead of being a one shot wonder sniper rifle.

edit: some sales this weekend for christie tanks, and 50% off gold ammo and 2x crew training. :D
I think the game would had been a lot more interesting if they included towable AT guns instead of arty. Give them a great camo rating as well.
 

Possessed Freak

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 1999
6,045
1
0
I think the game would had been a lot more interesting if they included towable AT guns instead of arty. Give them a great camo rating as well.
While interesting, the setup time would be horrible. Thus it really needs to have a selectable deployment spot and ultra slow movement afterwards.

And the other main problem is that it would basically be the same thing as an unarmored TD as the current guns represented is basically the only ones they can use.
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
0
0
I think the game would had been a lot more interesting if they included towable AT guns instead of arty. Give them a great camo rating as well.
That would lean more towards infantry-oriented battles. And also, the later PAKs became impossible to move with infantry alone. You'd have to have a truck tow the thing, or it couldn't be relocated.

I think they'd be fine as static defensive guns, but it's not a great idea for the death match modes that we have right now. I know I wouldn't want to control one.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,067
498
126
That would lean more towards infantry-oriented battles. And also, the later PAKs became impossible to move with infantry alone. You'd have to have a truck tow the thing, or it couldn't be relocated.

I think they'd be fine as static defensive guns, but it's not a great idea for the death match modes that we have right now. I know I wouldn't want to control one.
I think of it having a truck that would tow it around the field. Obviously liberties would have to be taken on deployment times ect. It wouldnt be perfect, but would add something more than arty imo. Especially if they had a really good camo rating. True ambushes could be setup using pak fronts.

Just an idea.
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
0
0
The way company of heroes does their Paks and m1 57s (I think it's a 6 pounder?) is great. But those are 3 man teams. I don't know how "realistic" it would be to have a phantom towed AT gun sitting around with nobody moving it... like the open topped vehicles we have right now. Creepy seeing the gun move around with nobody loading and aiming.

When you're moving big guns... would you drive the truck? Or just pretend the gun is moving around randomly? Or... would you drive the gun away at 40 km/h, so it would just be a gun flying around thanks to our current physics engine? :p

Or like Man of War style, where you have to back a truck up to the gun, attach it, then tow it away under fire?

Seems like a fun idea, but I don't know how practical it'll look with the whole WOT engine. :p
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
346
126
Nope. You're just plain wrong. I've come to ignore anybody that says "well if you get hit by arty you're not moving around enough". That's bullshit, arty can hit you on the move VERY easily if they have half a brain cell.

With my obj212 I can snipe targets whenever I want, slower targets just make it easier. I've 1 shotted almost every single tier 8 tank, a handful of tier 9 mediums and dealt crippling damage to tier 10 heavies with one single bullet. The only thing big arties can't reliably hit is a good scout, and even then when they get close enough you have a 50/50 chance of instagibbing them. If you're in a good position, you can hit tanks sitting BEHIND rocks and buildings. Maybe if you don't move more than 5 feet from the spawn, then there will be a bunch of places that you can't hit. But that makes you bad@arty.

Play a big arty (something that's not a priest or a hummel) and then come back and tell me how you can't "penetrate" tanks. A near splash from a T92 or M40/43 will take off 400-700 from you. A direct hit and you're looking at over 1k-2k damage. A penetrating hit and you're most likely dead. My obj212 near splashes will take off 200-600, depending on the squishiness of the tank. I generally do about 400-500 to a T110E5, and closer to 200 on armored targets like maus or E100.

Fun fact: A t92's gold shell has 370 penetration. That's enough to go through the E75's front turret, arguably one of the strongest armor in the game. Hell, it'll probably go through the front armor of a T95. This is ignoring the fact that arty shells are ARCED, so they will probably go into the much softer parts of tanks, like the engine decks and turret tops. Most of my penetrating shots are into the sides of tanks though. This is without gold or AP rounds.

Again, play with or against big arty and you'll understand why nobody plays tier 10 pubs. Getting 2 shotted is VERY common, even in a maus.
I disagree with some of that.

There is some chance to hit a moving target. But my arty constantly shoots at a moving target, and during the 3 seconds or so travel, the tank changes direction or stops moving.

There are a lot of misses you can't do anything about. You only hit if the tank keeps moving in a straight line at the same speed for the few seconds the shell is going.

Some tanks even when not going anywhere move back and forth constantly so that your shot has maybe a 50% chance or less of hitting them.

I agree with you about pen - high tier arty practically always pen if they hit.

Splash varies. And so does damage.

I haven't collected numbers, but anecdotally I have noted direst tier 8 arty hits on tier 10 heavies as taking off 10%-15% repeatedly, and the Maus 23% off above.

I also see a lot less splash damage than you mention on a lot of shots for your American arty; closer to your 212, I have the 261.

It is very common for arty not to be able to his a lot of enemies if they take cover. Some maps allow it more, many do not. Artys are very slow to move and many maps don't help.

Arty are SUPPOSED to do the most damage, the tooltips say - while having the longest reloads, the least mobility, the easiest to kill tanks.

I'm a lot more able to keep arty cover than you suggest you can. A few maps there isn't so much, but most there is. You have the fog of war much of the map as well.
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
0
0
There's always misses you can't do anything about, such as tanks juking or randomly turning or RNG not cooperating. I've missed 10 shots in a row with the SU-122-44 at 100m before, to put things into perspective.

But if you drive like that normally, you will bleed speed and get picked off by other tanks anyways. Can you imagine a E-50 trying to juke and avoid shots? Or imagine something slow, like a maus or a T110E4 trying to cross a field of some sort? He's going to be perma-tracked by arty. :awe:

The most awesome thing is to get tracked by arty, pop a repair kit only to have another arty track you because you're the only dumb fuck that wants to go out into the field to make a difference in the 4 arty campfest.

If you drive fast in a straight line hoping to get somewhere before arty splashes you, you're "driving in a straight line with a predictable speed." If you juke a bit, you lose speed and become easy prey for other tanks, and arty might still hit you anyway.

You just can't fucking win, and that's the gripe most people have with arty.

So it becomes the initial mad rush to get to a place where arty "can't hit you", then rock/house humping for the next 10 minutes and wait for the bored/adventurous tank to rush out and try to spot stuff for your own arty to whack. But on most of the reworked maps, the landscape is also flattened out more and offers so much less arty cover it's infuriating. Though I guess humping one rock for 10 minutes hoping you don't get your ass shot off is finding "arty cover". Just hope the lor 155 on the other team doesn't grow a brain and relocate.

Regarding direct hits: Most direct hits from my 212 will take off at the minimum 600 hp, unless it hits something ridiculously thick like the T95 front armor or E75's front plates. More often than not I'll get a shot at someone's side armor though. I'll only deal 200 if its a near splash.
 

stag3

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2005
3,624
0
76
so with the 212 do you aim with the center of the reticle @ the side closest to you?
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
0
0
Depends on the slope they're on, the shell might arc a bit more or a bit less. Generally if they're on an inclined slope pointing towards you, I'll aim for the back or wherever I can get a nice shot on their exposed topsides. If they're on a decline pointed away from your arty, it's a bit more of a crap shot since russian arties don't have a great arc. I'll generally just aim for whatever covers most of the tank and generally I'll get a 200-400 damage on a splash. This depends on how squishy your tank is, of course.

On most normal shot I'll aim towards the back of the tank if they're facing me. If they're parallel to me (sideways shot at their flanks) I'll probably pen anyway and don't bother aiming much. Generally most tanks will show up on your radar in some sort of slant or sideways view and you'll be able to do major damage without much effort.

I also try to aim for backs of turrets whenever possible. Again, depends on the slope the other guy's on, it might be more reliable to shoot the body of the tank if you have a nice squishy shot. I've nearly 1-shotted IS-4s and other big heavies by penetrating them on the roof or rear of the tank, and had the same happen to me more times than I care to count.

Hell, a hummel penetrated the back top of my M103 (on the engine) before I sold it. Damn near killed me.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
346
126
so with the 212 do you aim with the center of the reticle @ the side closest to you?
I think the game has probably changed. It used to seem I needed to aim past the tank - and then that suddenly changed and you have to aim right at it generally.
 

Possessed Freak

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 1999
6,045
1
0
I still aim directly past the tank. The theory being that if the shot goes short, it hits the tank. If the shot stays on target it hits the tank (shot trying to go through the tank). I *do not* try to aim at a specific part of the tank, that is just too precise and time consuming. Better to smack the target for some than miss because you are microing your shot.
 

Harabec

Golden Member
Oct 15, 2005
1,371
1
81
I've had such horrible luck with my Centurion for the last couple of days. My teams were composed of the Red Sea, usually versus 52%+ players or silly 60%+ platoons.
I was amazed to get that, game after game...

What do you do when you're the best player on your team, at 51%, again and again? >.<

EDIT: Just to give an example...earlier I was on Prokhorovka, only me and another guy were "decent". Enemy had multiple good players plus a platoon of Jacg123 and CrabEatOff in T34's. I went over to the right side hill and took cover half way up, trying to shoot the T34's in the town plus hold a Type from coming over the hill.

Where was the team? Well 3 of our own T34's and another centurion were on the other side, hiding in the bushes. No scouts. They were just shooting whatever came into visual range while getting scouted themselves. They eventually died uselessly.
A friendly T32 followed me to the hill, but stopped half way in the open for no apparent reason. By the time he decided to get into cover he had 500hp left and died seconds later.

Those are the teams my newly-bought Centurion gets.
 
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PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
0
0
I've had such horrible luck with my Centurion for the last couple of days. My teams were composed of the Red Sea, usually versus 52%+ players or silly 60%+ platoons.
I was amazed to get that, game after game...

What do you do when you're the best player on your team, at 51%, again and again? >.<

EDIT: Just to give an example...earlier I was on Prokhorovka, only me and another guy were "decent". Enemy had multiple good players plus a platoon of Jacg123 and CrabEatOff in T34's. I went over to the right side hill and took cover half way up, trying to shoot the T34's in the town plus hold a Type from coming over the hill.

Where was the team? Well 3 of our own T34's and another centurion were on the other side, hiding in the bushes. No scouts. They were just shooting whatever came into visual range while getting scouted themselves. They eventually died uselessly.
A friendly T32 followed me to the hill, but stopped half way in the open for no apparent reason. By the time he decided to get into cover he had 500hp left and died seconds later.

Those are the teams my newly-bought Centurion gets.
Use your reds as meat shields. Use their tanks to block shots, let them go out and make the enemy fire. Hide behind their tanks. More unscrupulously, if they're so terrible they're causing you to falter, block them out in the open and get them killed and use their corpse as cover. They're more useful that way. I've purposely gotten a few people killed because they were blocking my retreat and were basically more worthless alive than dead.

If you find the enemy targeting you no matter what, scoot to the back and continue sniping and hope the enemy arty doesn't find you interesting. The centurion has good turret armor and can hull down marvelously.
 

Harabec

Golden Member
Oct 15, 2005
1,371
1
81
I found the centurion to be a softer version of the Pershing, but with a much better gun :) hulldown is what I'm always trying. I changed my playstyle to a more cautious one, similar to what you suggested. Seems to work, though last game I've had a Lowe hiding behind ME.
-_-
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
0
0
I found the centurion to be a softer version of the Pershing, but with a much better gun :) hulldown is what I'm always trying. I changed my playstyle to a more cautious one, similar to what you suggested. Seems to work, though last game I've had a Lowe hiding behind ME.
-_-
As long as he doesn't block your escape route I don't see an issue with that. The lowe catches on fire every other shot and contrary to popular believes, is not a frontline tank.
 

stag3

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2005
3,624
0
76
lol sorry i meant the object 261, ugh i already passed the 212 and had a blast with that one
the 261 arc is so low tho, having issues
 

Nintendesert

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2010
7,761
5
0
I'm close to the GwTiger, not sure I should do it though. Anyone have experience with it vs. the GwPanther?
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
0
0
I hate being shot by one. :p

You should really compare GW type E with other arty instead of the GW Tiger with everything else though. From what I've heard the german arty is the most well rounded arties of them all, but that just means they aren't very good at doing any one thing well. Has good ROF though.
 

Nintendesert

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2010
7,761
5
0
I have taken to trolling each game with my arty now, I tell everyone how much arty ruins the game and see who defends how retarded arty is. I then target that person the whole match. I guess I look forward to using the type E to do it in eventually.
 
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