Yeah I know when I make a "mistake" I don't simply acknowledge it, apologize and attempt to do better. Instead I opt for insulting the person I misrepresented. Feels good man.This is Guy On The Internet stupidity.
Kinda of the opposite of opinion pools when the ACA was passed. When you spelled out the details people favored. When you called it Obamacare people opposed.This is not accurate.
You can find polls where people broadly agree with things he says but once the details come into play they oppose them.
There’s nothing wrong with Bernie - he’s great! He does not represent the median voter though.
I can see that - it's also that a lot of voters are cross-pressured. There are plenty of people who think the rich should pay more in taxes but also hate trans people or abortion, for example.To me, someone like my brother represents the median voter. He’s an early 30s bartender in Pennsylvania and makes around the national median income. Very smart guy but uninterested in spending his free time keeping up with politics. Also a “normal” guy in that if pressed he would typically support most liberal policy positions.
When the Democrats won all three chambers in 2020 I remember he said something like “great, can’t wait for my taxes to go up.” I didn’t bother addressing it or debating because there’s nothing more boring than convincing your brother to vote for democrats during a rare visit. I think there are legions like him who just think democrats == taxes and don’t bother voting or vote republican.
Tl;DrYeah I know when I make a "mistake" I don't simply acknowledge it, apologize and attempt to do better. Instead I opt for insulting the person I misrepresented. Feels good man.
It's okay eskimospy, I guess I'll just have to be the bigger man here.
Let's see, you want to know why I think Bernie lost at the ballot box, even though I already said it was probably due to numerous factors. I also already said I think a large portion of the population has been fooled, to which you replied that you do not think a large portion of the population has been fooled.
Now do I have any data to prove that a large portion has been fooled? No I do not. Do you have any evidence showing that a large portion has not been fooled?
I'd have a hard time believing you operate under the assumption that every voter is 100% well informed on all details of all policies and proposals, but then again, I figured you'd know the difference between a large portion and all, yet here we are, so perhaps it would be best for you to clarify. I mean, if you think no voters have been fooled I can just counter with FDC for example who votes Republican because he thinks they're fiscally conservative.
I think some portion of the population votes primarily based on personality over policy, and some other portion vice versa. I think some portion of the second group is well informed, another portion is under informed but at least not delusional, and then another portion is operating mostly on alternative "facts."
I have no idea what the ratio is for any of these groups, but I think we can at least agree that none of them are zero. Maybe you'll be able to find some evidence or studies examining the sizes of some or all of them, if you care to investigate.
The point is, you can rule out the personality people, and you can rule out the misinformed or "fooled" people right off the bat.
I suspect you are just fishing for an opportunity to list a few examples of how some of Bernie's numbers don't add up, as if that is the reason he lost. I won't agree to that unless you can provide evidence that yes millions of people were ready to vote for Bernie over Hillary or Joe until they found out his numbers were off. I think the number of people who were uninformed and misinformed dwarfs the number of people who even know he has bad numbers.
I’m saying if you ran a national campaign with Sanders’ exact policy positions you would lose.
But is that because the policies are unpopular or because so many people assume anything progressives support is evil? When you ask conservatives or "independents" why they don't support specific bills the Democrats put forth, the reasons they give are almost universally because they believe the bills do things that the bill doesn't do.
Hold the horses.I think we should be pretty wary of the idea that everyone secretly agrees with us but are tricked into believing otherwise.