Miss a payment? Your car stops running

[highland145]

There are people who engage in what is called "hyper-mileage" driving, which involves shutting off the car while it is moving in order to conserve fuel. I have hyper-mileaged both eastwards and westwards down the Cascades when travelling cross country for almost an entire hour. So I guess when I go to restart my vehicle I can't and I'm dead?

That's awful.

And good riddance for such a safety hazzard.

Is your auto insurance paid up?

 

[boomerang]

There are people who engage in what is called "hyper-mileage" driving, which involves shutting off the car while it is moving in order to conserve fuel. I have hyper-mileaged both eastwards and westwards down the Cascades when travelling cross country for almost an entire hour. So I guess when I go to restart my vehicle I can't and I'm dead?

That's awful.

When you go to restart it and it won't, just before you die do you think your last thought will be about how you should have made your car payment?

 

[Bitek]

See above.

What industry do you work in?From the links:


Buying a better car is a downside for the customer?


The laws are clear here. If the lender isn't following them, the state can take their license. And we're required to have pamphlets on the counter detailing their rights. And the notice of defaults have to be sent certified mail. But like I said, there are assholes in every industry and there are magistrates that do whatever they like.

Of course loan loses are the incentive for the devices. Making $$ is why they're open not as a public service. Who are these "others" that you're talking about? Poor loan decisions affects the lender only not any financial system. There isn't a way that I know of to package these loans and sell them to the public like what happened in the mortgage industry.

UI is paid by state govts, which is funded by dedicated employer taxes. Yes and if the employee gets fired for a cause, they might not get any unemployment so that's not hurting the state or the employer. Here, if an ex employee gets unemployment, the employer's rate goes up and they pay more into the system.

This doesn't make the cars any more affordable for the buyer right? This is already a high-risk pool with high default rates and limited financial means. So where is the risk going? If I've learned one thing from the financial crisis it is questioning these cases.

This does facilitate foolish buyers into taking more loan risk as the incentives for the natural counter-balance, the lender, are lessened as well. (Other notable tales of caution: Mortgage backed securities/subprime loans/global financial crisis; govt student loan guarantees/ tuition growth>>inflation/ massive levels of student debt)

These devices are powerful weapons for the lenders, that's why they are being used. Lenders can force debt prioritization in their favor, but seeing as borrowers have not suddenly become more financially stable, the risks have to go somewhere, be that family members, welfare, foodstamps, UI, etc etc. as having a car is vital to having decent employment in most all of the US.

I don't want to conflate the issue, but the potential for abuse and collateral damage is real, so the devices need proper oversight and regulation, that's all.

Personally, I think the high rates of default are a clear sign that these borrowers are buying products that are not truly affordable and need to be looking at other solutions. Just insulating the lenders is not the best of them imo.

 

[momeNt]

When you go to restart it and it won't, just before you die do you think your last thought will be about how you should have made your car payment?

I would think there needs to be some sort of dash notification saying that you have 1 more car start before the lock kicks in.

Hyper-mileagers are completely screwed, and you can expect a lot more greenhouse gases when people just leave their cars running in order to circumvent this.

 

[Rakehellion]

There are people who engage in what is called "hyper-mileage" driving, which involves shutting off the car while it is moving in order to conserve fuel. I have hyper-mileaged both eastwards and westwards down the Cascades when travelling cross country for almost an entire hour. So I guess when I go to restart my vehicle I can't and I'm dead?

That's awful.

So reckless driving is now dangerous. Someone stop the presses.

 

[boomerang]

Going through life as nothing more than appetite married to entitlement is sad, dude.

Statements like he made really make me wonder just how many people our educational system is cranking out that think like he does. It does not bode well for us as a nation. I'm surprised too that he didn't include sex in the list.

 

[Bitek]

...


If only consumers had some way to control what they buy. Sadly, that is but a pipe dream, and the reality is we are but slaves who must accept whatever people wish to sell us, having neither spines nor minds.

If I was isolated from their stupidity that would be one thing.

I never got a subprime loan or lied on a mortgage app, yet here I sit in a global depression with high unemployment, expensive housing prices and stagnant wages.

Sometimes you should worry about saving stupid or unlucky people from themselves, but you should always worry about saving yourself from them.

Who paid in the end? The deadbeats lost their houses and moved on, the banks were bailed out and not one CEO went to prison. Everyone else got screwed

 

[momeNt]

So reckless driving is now dangerous. Someone stop the presses.

Hyper-mileageing is not dangerous. You would only do it in a car that has working brakes and steering when the car is shut off and moving obviously. The problem is when you go to restart and it doesn't, you then risk getting rear-ended.

 

[Bitek]

It doesn't remove risk, it reduces it. Otherwise largely agree with your thoughts here.

More high % debt is not the answer to poor borrowers, sheparding in this crap into these folks lives through shutoff devices on items they may not be able to afford otherwise,... doesn't seem like a great benefit of our society.

Debt is the anchor in many of these folks lives. I've little patience for those ignoring the larger, in plain sight, issue here.

+1

I had a coworker, a single male making $80K, who would only buy $500 cars in cash and just drove them until they died or needed an expensive must-do repair. He drove some amazingly ugly ass cars, but they did the job and lasted a decent amt of time.

He was a nut, and it was a bit shocking that he ever got a GF, but there was some strange but sound logic

 

[Bitek]

Hyper-mileageing is not dangerous. You would only do it in a car that has working brakes and steering when the car is shut off and moving obviously. The problem is when you go to restart and it doesn't, you then risk getting rear-ended.

Get a manual and put it in neutral? Why would you ever want to lose power steering and brakes to save a couple bucks at the pump?

I hear people do this and think its odd

 

[smackababy]

Hyper-mileageing is not dangerous. You would only do it in a car that has working brakes and steering when the car is shut off and moving obviously. The problem is when you go to restart and it doesn't, you then risk getting rear-ended.

And, it would be your own fault. You would know fully well before hand that the car contained an automatic shutoff AND you know if you have paid your monthly bill. So, if you are a sub prime borrower, get a car with a shutoff, AND don't pay your bill on time, you risk dying if you are also driving like an idiot, hyper miler.

+1

I had a coworker, a single male making $80K, who would only buy $500 in cash and just drove them until they died or needed an expensive must-do repair. He drove some amazingly ugly ass cars, but they did the job and lasted a decent amt of time.

He was a nut, and it was a bit shocking that he ever got a GF, but their was some strange but sound logic in there

I've worked with plenty of people like this. They buy cheap, junk cars and drive them into the ground. For them, a car is nothing more than a means of transportation. They don't need a nice one, just one that works. So, they spend as little as possible and don't care about any superficial aspects of it. Some people have different priorities than others.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally Posted by dmcowen674
This isn't Europe. When I lived in Oklahoma it was 20 miles to the nearest town. No cabs, no buses and would you bike 40 miles round trip to get a loaf of bread?

Move into town, Damn.

Why?

According to the Elite in here there are plenty of Cabs, Buses and Trains like Europe.

Are they wrong?

 

[highland145]

Predatory lending is bad. But some people wouldn't be getting cars at all without these things.

I see no problem with the device itself.

Pretty much.

This doesn't make the cars any more affordable for the buyer right? This is already a high-risk pool with high default rates and limited financial means. So where is the risk going? If I've learned one thing from the financial crisis it is questioning these cases.

This does facilitate foolish buyers into taking more loan risk as the incentives for the natural counter-balance, the lender, are lessened as well. (Other notable tales of caution: Mortgage backed securities/subprime loans/global financial crisis; govt student loan guarantees/ tuition growth>>inflation/ massive levels of student debt)

These devices are powerful weapons for the lenders, that's why they are being used. Lenders can force debt prioritization in their favor, but seeing as borrowers have not suddenly become more financially stable, the risks have to go somewhere, be that family members, welfare, foodstamps, UI, etc etc.

I don't want to conflate the issue, but the potential for abuse and collateral damage is real, so the devices need proper oversight and regulation, that's all.

The risk is always on the lender. There is no backup/buyout option for Joe's used cars.

Mortgage backed securities/subprime loans/global financial crisis; govt student loan guarantees/ tuition growth>>inflation/ massive levels of student debt

Like you said, foolish borrowers.

Personally, I think the high rates of default are a clear sign that these borrowers are buying products that are not truly affordable and need to be looking at other solutions. Just isolating the lenders is not the best of them imo.

Possibly, in some cases, so the buyer should realize their finances and not buy. You also have to understand the clientele and their handling of $$. A $6K EITC windfall will be blown within a month. I see it year after year.


The only way some are going to be satisfied is if the nanny state takes over the used car business. Take these customers and give them 0% interest and they'd still miss payments.

 

[Bitek]

And, it would be your own fault. You would know fully well before hand that the car contained an automatic shutoff AND you know if you have paid your monthly bill. So, if you are a sub prime borrower, get a car with a shutoff, AND don't pay your bill on time, you risk dying if you are also driving like an idiot, hyper miler.


I've worked with plenty of people like this. They buy cheap, junk cars and drive them into the ground. For them, a car is nothing more than a means of transportation. They don't need a nice one, just one that works. So, they spend as little as possible and don't care about any superficial aspects of it. Some people have different priorities than others.

There is def a large amount of freedom you have if you don't have to worry about how nice your car looks. I tend to buy inexpensive cars and drive them into the ground. I just replaced my old car that was done in by the harsh winter.

I bought a Focus, while my coworkers are buying BMWs, Mercs, Audis, etc, so they think I'm a cheapass. Meanwhile I think to the other guy who was driving a $400 '83 Chrysler K-car in 2004 and think I am being extravagant as I bought new.

Now I bristle everytime I drive over some stones as I hear them kicking up and chipping the nice new paint, where as in my old car I didn't give a shit as it got me to work, I had no payment, got good mpg, and still looked ok (if you looked past the couple of rust spots, and dent where a deer decided to end its life against....)

 

[highland145]

I would think there needs to be some sort of dash notification saying that you have 1 more car start before the lock kicks in.

Would you like a calendar with an adhesive back or a magnet?

I had a coworker, a single male making $80K, who would only buy $500 cars in cash and just drove them until they died or needed an expensive must-do repair. He drove some amazingly ugly ass cars, but they did the job and lasted a decent amt of time.

Someone I know drove the same prelude for 19 years....:whiste: He plans on driving the tacoma for 20.

 

[squarecut1]

Not just I want now. It is wanting something bigger and more expensive than you need.

It is instructive to note that in the NY Times article criticizing this kind of loan practice, the three cases they mention all have vehicles that they probably do not need.

The 26 year old Oscar is driving a 2.7 Liter, 190 HP, V6, with 18 mpg gas milege, and that is for the smallest Magnum, don't know which one he is driving. It could be even bigger one and worse mileage. He is ticked off that the shut off device messed up his movie date. Does Oscar really need something this big? By what definition of the word is this vehicle a necessity?

I would be interested in knowing what kind of phone does Oscar carry, what kind of TV package does he have, what kind of clothes he buys, and so on. None of that would be my business, but when he talks to the press about how his date got spoiled with the car not starting, it becomes everyone else's business as well. Don't I know these guys...

The sad part is that there are genuine cases, people who have fallen on hard times due to the state of the economy.

 

[Bitek]

Pretty much.


The risk is always on the lender. There is no backup/buyout option for Joe's used cars. Like you said, foolish borrowers.

Possibly, in some cases, so the buyer should realize their finances and not buy. You also have to understand the clientele and their handling of $$. A $6K EITC windfall will be blown within a month. I see it year after year.


The only way some are going to be satisfied is if the nanny state takes over the used car business. Take these customers and give them 0% interest and they'd still miss payments.

Trust me, I have no illusions on that.

I remember seeing this news story on gas prices from 2008 from West Philly where this guy was complaining that was costing him $150 to fill up his new Escalade, meanwhile it has spinners, rims and tint and all that bullshit and the guy had no money as he was unemployed, but gas was too expensive to be able to out and look for a job.

 

[squarecut1]

There is def a large amount of freedom you have if you don't have to worry about how nice your car looks.

This is the freedom too many Americans do not have, slaves as they are to their materialistic desires, and keeping up with the Joneses. You gotta look cool. Our society is so superficial, so much about appearances, it is unreal...

 

[werepossum]

When you go to restart it and it won't, just before you die do you think your last thought will be about how you should have made your car payment?

We had a guy in Dayton who lived on the mountain, had a little sports car, MGB I think. He would come all the way down the mountain really fast with the engine off. Eventually he replaced his car with a newer model and found out the hard way that this particular model had a steering wheel lock, so that if you turned the key all the way off it assumed you were parking. First trip went down the mountain he shut off the switch, entered the first turn, steering wheel locked, and when the turn stopped he didn't stop turning until he "met the mountain". Luckily he wasn't injured but his new car's first trip down the mountain was its last.

Air bags will time out too. Worthy of a Darwin Award, I'd say.

Statements like he made really make me wonder just how many people our educational system is cranking out that think like he does. It does not bode well for us as a nation. I'm surprised too that he didn't include sex in the list.

Agreed. What he is too foolish to understand is that government has no money of its own, only money it takes away from others. Such an attitude is nothing more than a belief that other people are here for his personal benefit.

If I was isolated from their stupidity that would be one thing.

I never got a subprime loan or lied on a mortgage app, yet here I sit in a global depression with high unemployment, expensive housing prices and stagnant wages.

Sometimes you should worry about saving stupid or unlucky people from themselves, but you should always worry about saving yourself from them.

Who paid in the end? The deadbeats lost their houses and moved on, the banks were bailed out and not one CEO went to prison. Everyone else got screwed

You do make good points here.

 

[highland145]

Trust me, I have no illusions on that.

I remember seeing this news story on gas prices from 2008 from West Philly where this guy was complaining that was costing him $150 to fill up his new Escalade, meanwhile it has spinners, rims and tint and all that bullshit and the guy had no money as he was unemployed, but gas was too expensive to be able to out and look for a job.

The question is, did he look good sitting in it?

 

[Bitek]

The question is, did he look good sitting in it?

ballin' :biggrin:

 

[piasabird]

Some states have consumer protection laws that says you have to be past due 60 days before any collection actions can take place. I would think they would give you at least one warning. Using just a little logic you might have sent a payment in one day late or something like that. This is one reason I quit paying for cable TV. They were like Nazi's if the payment was one day late.

 

[waggy]

+1

I had a coworker, a single male making $80K, who would only buy $500 cars in cash and just drove them until they died or needed an expensive must-do repair. He drove some amazingly ugly ass cars, but they did the job and lasted a decent amt of time.

He was a nut, and it was a bit shocking that he ever got a GF, but there was some strange but sound logic

i do something similar. i buy used cars and drive them until the repair cost more then it's worth.

Though i buy $4-5k cars. I started doing it from the advice of my dad. I have purchased 1 new car (when i was 20). i just felt like i wasted 12k more to have a shinier car.

 

[boomerang]

Would you like a calendar with an adhesive back or a magnet?

LOL!!!!

 

[Vic]

Leftie, shit he is beyond leftie and has gone into plaid.

He's gone from suck to blow!