Minimum Wage Can Stand Some Maximizing...

[erwos]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
If you had a point worth responding to (other the being an ass) I'd happily respond to it.

There's still my original criticism of your "inflation would rise .1%" statement (with this particular minimum wage increase). You never gave any sources to verify this number. Please do so. And, if you have no such numbers, please give us reason to believe your estimate, such as your own background as an economist. That, sir, is my point.

Also, I'd additionally point out that running economic policy in such a way that people never lose their jobs (which would seem to be the first argument of your original, crass response post to my criticism of relying too heavily on the C&K study) is a very bad idea. Sometimes, you're stuck doing things that will cut jobs or job growth (eg, raise interest rates). Certainly, it sucks to be poor and get laid off, but the greater good needs to be accomplished, so that they can get jobs in the future.

-Erwos

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Dissipate
The most telling thing about the minimum wage is how low it is. The politicians know that if they raised it to $10, $15 or $20 an hour, massive unemployment would result. I would asky anyone who wants to raise the minimum wage why they want to raise it by such a small amount? Surely they must know that by raising it they increase unemployment. I don't understand how they cannot see that this happens on a smaller scale as well when they raise it by those paltry amounts.

The main reason would be that it doesn't happen.

So where does that extra money come from to pay them?

Heck, I'm pretty sure there are workers out there that could only fetch $1 an hour.

The extra money comes from the range between market wage and 'willingness to pay'. When you think about it, your $1/hr argument, while 'clever' is not very valid; an employee who could really command a maximum wage of only $1 would simply never be hired because their potential to cause damage would be too great given their obvious incompetence.

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Dissipate
The most telling thing about the minimum wage is how low it is. The politicians know that if they raised it to $10, $15 or $20 an hour, massive unemployment would result. I would asky anyone who wants to raise the minimum wage why they want to raise it by such a small amount? Surely they must know that by raising it they increase unemployment. I don't understand how they cannot see that this happens on a smaller scale as well when they raise it by those paltry amounts.

The main reason would be that it doesn't happen.

So where does that extra money come from to pay them?

Heck, I'm pretty sure there are workers out there that could only fetch $1 an hour.

The extra money comes as a result of reduced corparate profits.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: erwos

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
If you had a point worth responding to (other the being an ass) I'd happily respond to it.

There's still my original criticism of your "inflation would rise .1%" statement (with this particular minimum wage increase). You never gave any sources to verify this number. Please do so. And, if you have no such numbers, please give us reason to believe your estimate, such as your own background as an economist. That, sir, is my point.

Also, I'd additionally point out that running economic policy in such a way that people never lose their jobs (which would seem to be the first argument of your original, crass response post to my criticism of relying too heavily on the C&K study) is a very bad idea. Sometimes, you're stuck doing things that will cut jobs or job growth (eg, raise interest rates). Certainly, it sucks to be poor and get laid off, but the greater good needs to be accomplished, so that they can get jobs in the future.

-Erwos

I don't need a degree in economics to know that the inflation we currently have is being caused by some extreme sucking at the top of the economic food chain and any inflation that might be caused by a raise in the minimum wage will be insignificant in comparison.

I sure hope you didn't waste too much of your time and money on an education if you can't figure that out.

 

[HybridSquirrel]

hell raise it to 7.50 thats still not much but its enough to keep a single mom alive

 

[stinkz]

Let's raise it to $15 dollars an hour, then all poor people win! Oh wait....

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Dissipate
The most telling thing about the minimum wage is how low it is. The politicians know that if they raised it to $10, $15 or $20 an hour, massive unemployment would result. I would asky anyone who wants to raise the minimum wage why they want to raise it by such a small amount? Surely they must know that by raising it they increase unemployment. I don't understand how they cannot see that this happens on a smaller scale as well when they raise it by those paltry amounts.

The main reason would be that it doesn't happen.

So where does that extra money come from to pay them?

Heck, I'm pretty sure there are workers out there that could only fetch $1 an hour.

The extra money comes from the range between market wage and 'willingness to pay'. When you think about it, your $1/hr argument, while 'clever' is not very valid; an employee who could really command a maximum wage of only $1 would simply never be hired because their potential to cause damage would be too great given their obvious incompetence.

Do you think 'willingness to pay' is arbitrary? It isn't. 'Willingness to pay' is based on how much that employee can bring in. Some employees are below the threshold of minimum wage.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Dissipate
Do you think 'willingness to pay' is arbitrary? It isn't. 'Willingness to pay' is based on how much that employee can bring in. Some employees are below the threshold of minimum wage.

Time to learn some actual economics

Such as the definition of 'willingness to pay'.

 

[erwos]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
I don't need a degree in economics to know that the inflation we currently have is being caused by some extreme sucking at the top of the economic food chain and any inflation that might be caused by a raise in the minimum wage will be insignificant in comparison.

I sure hope you didn't waste too much of your time and money on an education if you can't figure that out.

Maybe if you'd gotten that degree, you'd know that payroll growth is by nature inflationary. Jacking up minimum wage is payroll growth, and in no small amount, ergo, it would seem to have a non-trivial influence on inflation. I don't think this is that difficult of a concept. Indeed, it makes it seem like, with our out-of-control spending, now is NOT the time to do a minimum wage raise.

But, hey, let's see some sources to support your side of this. Prove to me that raising the minimum wage is not inflationary, unlike every other sort of payroll growth.

-Erwos

 

[FDF12389]

1. Minimun wage gets raised
2. Prices of stuff get raised
3. We didnt really get anywhere.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: FDF12389
1. Minimun wage gets raised
2. Prices of stuff get raised
3. We didnt really get anywhere.

This would happen if all pay increased by the same percentage as minimum wage.

But that's not what happens.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: FDF12389
1. Minimun wage gets raised
2. Prices of stuff get raised
3. We didnt really get anywhere.

This would happen if all pay increased by the same percentage as minimum wage.

But that's not what happens.

But it does happen. And low end jobs keep getting automated too. Self order fast food and self check are becoming more and more popular.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: FDF12389
1. Minimun wage gets raised
2. Prices of stuff get raised
3. We didnt really get anywhere.

This would happen if all pay increased by the same percentage as minimum wage.

But that's not what happens.

But it does happen. And low end jobs keep getting automated too. Self order fast food and self check are becoming more and more popular.

Actually, it's not what happens, at least if you believe Stunt, who claims that minimum wage levels have no effect on average wage levels.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: FDF12389
1. Minimun wage gets raised
2. Prices of stuff get raised
3. We didnt really get anywhere.

This would happen if all pay increased by the same percentage as minimum wage.

But that's not what happens.

But it does happen. And low end jobs keep getting automated too. Self order fast food and self check are becoming more and more popular.

Actually, it's not what happens, at least if you believe Stunt, who claims that minimum wage levels have no effect on average wage levels.

In the end it does make much difference. but prices do go up and jobs do get reduced. You dont think the guy that hired these people is going to take a paycut because he has to pay more salary?

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: charrison


In the end it does make much difference. but prices do go up and jobs do get reduced. You dont think the guy that hired these people is going to take a paycut because he has to pay more salary?

If his business can't stand to pay a fair wage he can go broke for all I care.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: erwos

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
I don't need a degree in economics to know that the inflation we currently have is being caused by some extreme sucking at the top of the economic food chain and any inflation that might be caused by a raise in the minimum wage will be insignificant in comparison.

I sure hope you didn't waste too much of your time and money on an education if you can't figure that out.

Maybe if you'd gotten that degree, you'd know that payroll growth is by nature inflationary. Jacking up minimum wage is payroll growth, and in no small amount, ergo, it would seem to have a non-trivial influence on inflation. I don't think this is that difficult of a concept. Indeed, it makes it seem like, with our out-of-control spending, now is NOT the time to do a minimum wage raise.

But, hey, let's see some sources to support your side of this. Prove to me that raising the minimum wage is not inflationary, unlike every other sort of payroll growth.

-Erwos

They have said the same thing everytime the minimum wage has been raised and the sky hasn't fallen yet. That's all the proof anybody with any common sense needs,

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: stinkz
Let's raise it to $15 dollars an hour, then all poor people win! Oh wait....

pfff $15??

$200 per hour we'd all be millonaires stupid!

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: charrison


In the end it does make much difference. but prices do go up and jobs do get reduced. You dont think the guy that hired these people is going to take a paycut because he has to pay more salary?

If his business can't stand to pay a fair wage he can go broke for all I care.

And if he forced to pay higher wages, which causes him to go out of business, do those that get laid deserve no job rather than a low paying one?

But as i said, higher wages that will be paid will not come out of the oweners pocket, iit will come out ofthe consumers pocket.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: stinkz
Let's raise it to $15 dollars an hour, then all poor people win! Oh wait....

pfff $15??

$200 per hour we'd all be millonaires stupid!

This is called a strawman, I'm glad you approve.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: stinkz
Let's raise it to $15 dollars an hour, then all poor people win! Oh wait....

pfff $15??

$200 per hour we'd all be millonaires stupid!

This is called a strawman, I'm glad you approve.

Then tell me what minimum wage should be...
Just asking for a number.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: stinkz
Let's raise it to $15 dollars an hour, then all poor people win! Oh wait....

pfff $15??

$200 per hour we'd all be millonaires stupid!

This is called a strawman, I'm glad you approve.

This is not a strawman argument at all. There is not difference between artifically setting wages at $5, $15 or $200 an hour.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: charrison


In the end it does make much difference. but prices do go up and jobs do get reduced. You dont think the guy that hired these people is going to take a paycut because he has to pay more salary?

If his business can't stand to pay a fair wage he can go broke for all I care.

And if he forced to pay higher wages, which causes him to go out of business, do those that get laid deserve no job rather than a low paying one?

But as i said, higher wages that will be paid will not come out of the oweners pocket, iit will come out ofthe consumers pocket.

If it were me I'd rather be beating the street looking for a job that pays enough to keep me off of welfare then slowly go broke.

As a farmer I hire local people to do custom spraying, fertilizing, and harvesting, stuff like that. Most of the people they employ are very low paid and I'm sure raising the minimum wage is going to end up costing me money. Heck, I don't make enough money to be able to afford health insurance for my self, but it isn't going to break me to pay more and if it won't break me I just don't think it will break very many places, if any.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: stinkz
Let's raise it to $15 dollars an hour, then all poor people win! Oh wait....

pfff $15??

$200 per hour we'd all be millonaires stupid!

This is called a strawman, I'm glad you approve.

This is not a strawman argument at all. There is not difference between artifically setting wages at $5, $15 or $200 an hour.

In a world with no pre-existing wage level and real currency value, this would be true.

In the world we live in, it is not.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: stinkz
Let's raise it to $15 dollars an hour, then all poor people win! Oh wait....

pfff $15??

$200 per hour we'd all be millonaires stupid!

This is called a strawman, I'm glad you approve.

This is not a strawman argument at all. There is not difference between artifically setting wages at $5, $15 or $200 an hour.

In a world with no pre-existing wage level and real currency value, this would be true.

In the world we live in, it is not.

Ob that we will have to disagree. Artically increasing minimum wage is going to have negative effects and the more you increase the more negative it will be.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: stinkz
Let's raise it to $15 dollars an hour, then all poor people win! Oh wait....

pfff $15??

$200 per hour we'd all be millonaires stupid!

This is called a strawman, I'm glad you approve.

Then tell me what minimum wage should be...
Just asking for a number.

Roll a 6 sided die, and multiply by 2.