Minimum Wage Can Stand Some Maximizing...

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: smut
Minimum wage doesnt have an effect on wages? They both have wages in the words, to say it has NO effect at all is ludicrous.

Alot of ppl work minimum wage. That extra money every week multiplied by the year is certainly more then nothing right?

I'm saying the vast majority of people are paid over minimum wage, and there are many under minimum wage (even legals). So if there are people over and under the wage; what does it do.

Besides minimum wage is supposed to describe living costs; does the cost of living vary depending on where you live? Of course. The minimum wage does pretty much nothing.

 

[Stunt]

Consider this:

In Canada:
Province / Min wage / Avg wage
Ont. $6.85 $17.39
B.C. $8.00 $16.71
Alta. $5.90 $16.80
Sask. $6.65 $15.24
Man. $6.75 $14.99
Que. $7.30 $15.60
N.B. $6.00 $15.08
N.S. $6.00 $14.99
P.E.I. $6.25 $13.07
Nfld. $6.00 $15.61

The minimum wage seems to have absolutely no impact on average wages.

 

[smut]

Yeah I see your point on the cost of living, thats why I said nothing on it. Your actual job/employer's are the ones supposed to give you raises every year to help with cost of living I was always told, not sure if thats true or not but I confused the two.
But I didnt get your point that minimum wage has little to no effect on wages, maybe not yours but surely there is other ppl that would beg to disagree. Personally I do not work for minimum wage but I know some people/old friends that do and they can only get minimum wage jobs because of lack of education or whatever the reason might be. Of course its their fault they didnt continue education and are stuck working a dead end job but they do appreciate and will appreciate an increase in overall wages which is what an increase in minimum wages would bring for them. But if you are saying that it does benefit *some* people, maybe not us, but some then I have nothing to disagree with you on. I just would like some posters to realize that even though the majority of us posting on this forum do not benefit from it but others do is the point I am trying to stress a little bit.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: smut
Yeah I see your point on the cost of living, thats why I said nothing on it. Your actual job/employer's are the ones supposed to give you raises every year to help with cost of living I was always told, not sure if thats true or not but I confused the two.
But I didnt get your point that minimum wage has little to no effect on wages, maybe not yours but surely there is other ppl that would beg to disagree. Personally I do not work for minimum wage but I know some people/old friends that do and they can only get minimum wage jobs because of lack of education or whatever the reason might be. Of course its their fault they didnt continue education and are stuck working a dead end job but they do appreciate and will appreciate an increase in overall wages which is what an increase in minimum wages would bring for them. But if you are saying that it does benefit *some* people, maybe not us, but some then I have nothing to disagree with you on. I just would like some posters to realize that even though the majority of us posting on this forum do not benefit from it but others do is the point I am trying to stress a little bit.

It's tough to explain...
For example.
Say I'm collecting money for a charity and told you "the minimum donation you have to give is $50 and you get a teddy bear". Now potential donators will use the $50 as a benchmark when making a donation. You will ALWAYS have people who refuse to pay the minimum or donate less than $50. At the same time you will have people who donate over the minimum and pay say $75. Now consider if you raise your minimum donation to $60; the problem with that is; you are encouraging less people to donate as the minimum cost for the incentive is more. Also the people who may have been willing to donate $75 see $60 as close enough and think the minimum is good enough.

With every increase in minimum wage you a) decrease the number of donors (less employed) b) decrease the number of donations (employers paying less than minimum wage) and c) encourage people to pay the minimum (employers reverting to the minimum instead of the larger sum)

 

[HomeAppraiser]

A local franchise owner would have to sell a lot more 99 cent burgers to support a full staff at $7.50 instead of $5.15 per hour.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: erwos

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
We have a goverment printing/spending money like there is no tomorrow and your worried about the 1/10 of 1% infaltion that MIGHT be caused by raising minimum wage?

Would you care to share your credentials in the economics field with the rest of us? I don't really need some uneducated twit (judging from your immaturity and lack of knowledge) lecturing me on macro and labor economics. This is, of course, ignoring your obvious bias against the current administration (judging from your sig), which doesn't really make me think your arguments are even based on rationality or logic.

(I got my degree from U of MD. We've got a pretty good program over there, including a few Nobel prize winners. My primary focus was banking, finance, and labor, plus quite a lot of econometrics. Your turn.)

As for your assertion that inflation would rise .1% on the proposed minimum wage raise, I'd like to see some hard statistics for that. I made no such claims as to exactly how much inflation would go up, though I personally suspect it would be more than that. Certainly, if you tied minimum wage to cost of living, you'd expect to see some kind of feedback effect (high inflation -> higher minimum wage -> higher inflation).

-Erwos

LMAO, insulting me because of my sig??? As far as I'm concerned you show your real intelligence by doing that. Is there something in my sig that isn't true?? Please point it out if you can.

If you tried speaking to me in person like you did in the above post I'd wipe your ass with that POS diploma of yours and flush both it and you down the drain. If you want to play tough guy go down at the bar instead of on the internet. It's much more excitiing then a video game and you might even learn something.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Stunt
Consider this:

In Canada:
Province / Min wage / Avg wage
Ont. $6.85 $17.39
B.C. $8.00 $16.71
Alta. $5.90 $16.80
Sask. $6.65 $15.24
Man. $6.75 $14.99
Que. $7.30 $15.60
N.B. $6.00 $15.08
N.S. $6.00 $14.99
P.E.I. $6.25 $13.07
Nfld. $6.00 $15.61

The minimum wage seems to have absolutely no impact on average wages.

How is a 10% raise for the lowest paid 5% going to significantly alter the average wage?

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Stunt
Consider this:

In Canada:
Province / Min wage / Avg wage
Ont. $6.85 $17.39
B.C. $8.00 $16.71
Alta. $5.90 $16.80
Sask. $6.65 $15.24
Man. $6.75 $14.99
Que. $7.30 $15.60
N.B. $6.00 $15.08
N.S. $6.00 $14.99
P.E.I. $6.25 $13.07
Nfld. $6.00 $15.61

The minimum wage seems to have absolutely no impact on average wages.

How is a 10% raise for the lowest paid 5% going to significantly alter the average wage?

That average is average hourly wage...it takes out all salaried workers. Still a very effective statistic. Minimum wage has no effect on average hourly wage.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Stunt
Consider this:

In Canada:
Province / Min wage / Avg wage
Ont. $6.85 $17.39
B.C. $8.00 $16.71
Alta. $5.90 $16.80
Sask. $6.65 $15.24
Man. $6.75 $14.99
Que. $7.30 $15.60
N.B. $6.00 $15.08
N.S. $6.00 $14.99
P.E.I. $6.25 $13.07
Nfld. $6.00 $15.61

The minimum wage seems to have absolutely no impact on average wages.

How is a 10% raise for the lowest paid 5% going to significantly alter the average wage?

That average is average hourly wage...it takes out all salaried workers. Still a very effective statistic. Minimum wage has no effect on average hourly wage.

OK, I see what you saying. I thought you were trying to say something else and it didn't make sense to me. LOL, I was reading too much into it.

 

[JS80]

It is a scientific fact that raising minimum wage hurts the persons the politicians are purportedly trying to help. If you raise minimum wage, jobs get cut, and future job wages get cut. This is not opinion. This is fact that sociologists (who are very liberal) have found from their extensive studies.

So basically if you raise minimum wage, you're increasing employment to illegals and decreasing employment to low-skilled workers.

 

[erwos]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
If you tried speaking to me in person like you did in the above post I'd wipe your ass with that POS diploma of yours and flush both it and you down the drain. If you want to play tough guy go down at the bar instead of on the internet. It's much more excitiing then a video game and you might even learn something.

Ooh, physical threats. Do you always assault people who call you names, or accurately describe your lack of knowledge about certain topics? Personally, I'd look forward to you assaulting me - I'd enjoy pressing charges in criminal court, and suing your butt off in civil court. You may want to learn to deal with your anger management problems before they land you in some real trouble.

The very fact that you couldn't even respond to the points I raised confirms your lack of maturity. I only used your sig to point out your bias against the current administration, deserved or not. Tossing it up as "the issue" is a thin attempt at distraction from your lack of knowledge, nothing more.

-Erwos

 

[smack Down]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: Stunt
Consider this:

In Canada:
Province / Min wage / Avg wage
Ont. $6.85 $17.39
B.C. $8.00 $16.71
Alta. $5.90 $16.80
Sask. $6.65 $15.24
Man. $6.75 $14.99
Que. $7.30 $15.60
N.B. $6.00 $15.08
N.S. $6.00 $14.99
P.E.I. $6.25 $13.07
Nfld. $6.00 $15.61

The minimum wage seems to have absolutely no impact on average wages.

How is a 10% raise for the lowest paid 5% going to significantly alter the average wage?

That average is average hourly wage...it takes out all salaried workers. Still a very effective statistic. Minimum wage has no effect on average hourly wage.

The minimum wage isn't supposed to effect the average wage. It is supposed to effect the lowest wages paid.

 

[manno]

Originally posted by: raildogg
Welfare is a way for the government to keep some members of our society down. That may have been the original goal of it. They supposedly provide housing for little or no money and generally try to help that person. They do take that money from the taxpayer, without his or her consent and use it to do whatever they wish.

Welfare encourages people to be lazy. It encourages people to break the law or go around the law. Like politicians and officials who keep some of that money for themselves instead of it going to the really needy. You may say that the people receiving these "benefits" are keeping themselves down. That is true in a way, but they have grown up in the system, or that system has finally broken them down to where they just give up. If you eliminate the system, the people would have no choice but to better themselves even more.

Plus, welfare is a way for the government to expand and forcefully use the taxpayer money to do whatever they wish. It is really not about the people who are needed, in my opinion. The government wants to keep them down and encourage more people to join in it. This is evident everywhere. They do encourage people to get on welfare. It is a cycle.

Then you have the welfare recipients who influence their friends, family and others to get on the system and quit their job in order receive the benefits or the full benefits. This is a cycle.

If welfare is so wonderful why don't you stop working and go live on it. Then come and tell me what a "great deal" it is. Put your money wher your mouth is.

If you see some one cheating the system report them it's your duty as a citizen ask not what blah blah blah. Odly enough being a good citizen doesn't just mean pay taxes and buy a larger car, you have a civic duty to uphold. So if you see people milking the system in an unfair way do all of us a favor and report them.

-manno

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: erwos

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
If you tried speaking to me in person like you did in the above post I'd wipe your ass with that POS diploma of yours and flush both it and you down the drain. If you want to play tough guy go down at the bar instead of on the internet. It's much more excitiing then a video game and you might even learn something.

Ooh, physical threats. Do you always assault people who call you names, or accurately describe your lack of knowledge about certain topics? Personally, I'd look forward to you assaulting me - I'd enjoy pressing charges in criminal court, and suing your butt off in civil court. You may want to learn to deal with your anger management problems before they land you in some real trouble.

The very fact that you couldn't even respond to the points I raised confirms your lack of maturity. I only used your sig to point out your bias against the current administration, deserved or not. Tossing it up as "the issue" is a thin attempt at distraction from your lack of knowledge, nothing more.

-Erwos

You talk like an ass, you smell like an ass, and you are an ass. Now your even threatening to sue me. ASS ALERT!!

If you had a point worth responding to (other the being an ass) I'd happily respond to it.

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: acole1
Minimum wage up = UNEMPLOYMENT RATE UP!!!!

Higher minimum wage means more minimum-wage-earners out of work.

There is only so much wealth that can be shared.

In the end you don't help the current minimum wage earners... you hurt them by getting them laid off. Then how much do they make, eh?

Pick your poison...

Ah thank you for pointing out trickle down means sh!t.

If a business is intent on keeping it's employees in the dirt then they do not deserve to be in business, period.

What do YOU want, employees living in mud huts on the plantation again???

The business is intent on making profits.

 

[daniel49]

In fact the federal minimum wage is mostly eclipsed by state minimum wages anyway.
For instance the minimum wage in Washington where I live is $7.62 /hour
So what the feds do is a non issue.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: zendari

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: acole1
Minimum wage up = UNEMPLOYMENT RATE UP!!!!

Higher minimum wage means more minimum-wage-earners out of work.

There is only so much wealth that can be shared.

In the end you don't help the current minimum wage earners... you hurt them by getting them laid off. Then how much do they make, eh?

Pick your poison...

Ah thank you for pointing out trickle down means sh!t.

If a business is intent on keeping it's employees in the dirt then they do not deserve to be in business, period.

What do YOU want, employees living in mud huts on the plantation again???

The business is intent on making profits.

So was the Plantation owners.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

So was the Plantation owners.

You are so far detached from reality Dave, it isn't even funny. Got any copies of the Communist Manfesto laying around by any chance? :roll:

 

[zendari]

Originally posted by: Dissipate

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

So was the Plantation owners.

You are so far detached from reality Dave, it isn't even funny. Got any copies of the Communist Manfesto laying around by any chance? :roll:

Well, if he really beleives all personal income is property of the state........

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: JS80
It is a scientific fact that raising minimum wage hurts the persons the politicians are purportedly trying to help. If you raise minimum wage, jobs get cut, and future job wages get cut. This is not opinion. This is fact that sociologists (who are very liberal) have found from their extensive studies.

So basically if you raise minimum wage, you're increasing employment to illegals and decreasing employment to low-skilled workers.

Actually, it's an econ 101 model prediction. Economists as a rule are not liberal, and the real world effect of minimum wage is muddy at worst, beneficial at best.

 

[OFFascist]

Raising the minimum wage is a joke. It does nothing to help the poor.

Raising the minimum wage has a cost, and companies will just pass those costs onto the consumers, thus driving up the cost of living for everyone.

People who were making more than minimum wage before wont see a pay raise, if minimum wage is bumped some people will probably end up on minimum wage. So where they were good workers or worked there for a while now they get paid the same as some new chump who just started working.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: OFFascist
Raising the minimum wage is a joke. It does nothing to help the poor.

Raising the minimum wage has a cost, and companies will just pass those costs onto the consumers, thus driving up the cost of living for everyone.

People who were making more than minimum wage before wont see a pay raise, if minimum wage is bumped some people will probably end up on minimum wage. So where they were good workers or worked there for a while now they get paid the same as some new chump who just started working.

Minimum wage increases tend to push up the wage of anyone within spitting distance of minimum wage by a similar amount.

 

[Dissipate]

The most telling thing about the minimum wage is how low it is. The politicians know that if they raised it to $10, $15 or $20 an hour, massive unemployment would result. I would asky anyone who wants to raise the minimum wage why they want to raise it by such a small amount? Surely they must know that by raising it they increase unemployment. I don't understand how they cannot see that this happens on a smaller scale as well when they raise it by those paltry amounts.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: Dissipate
The most telling thing about the minimum wage is how low it is. The politicians know that if they raised it to $10, $15 or $20 an hour, massive unemployment would result. I would asky anyone who wants to raise the minimum wage why they want to raise it by such a small amount? Surely they must know that by raising it they increase unemployment. I don't understand how they cannot see that this happens on a smaller scale as well when they raise it by those paltry amounts.

The main reason would be that it doesn't happen.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: 3chordcharlie

Originally posted by: Dissipate
The most telling thing about the minimum wage is how low it is. The politicians know that if they raised it to $10, $15 or $20 an hour, massive unemployment would result. I would asky anyone who wants to raise the minimum wage why they want to raise it by such a small amount? Surely they must know that by raising it they increase unemployment. I don't understand how they cannot see that this happens on a smaller scale as well when they raise it by those paltry amounts.

The main reason would be that it doesn't happen.

So where does that extra money come from to pay them?

Heck, I'm pretty sure there are workers out there that could only fetch $1 an hour.