Microsoft to Drop the Banner Hammer on Used Games With "Xbox 720"

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SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
14,377
19
81
MS is really messing up this round. There is a lot of bad buzz about the Xbox 720 right now. I am way more interested in the PS4 and I'm sure a lot of people will agree with me.
 

A Casual Fitz

Diamond Member
May 16, 2005
4,649
1,018
136
Will be boycotting consoles completely this next gen.
speak with your wallets.

I for one buy 99% used and the rest are Gamefly.
I will be going back to full time PC gaming if this comes to light.

Yeah, I have no problem just making a permanent switch to Steam if this turns out to really be their way of stopping used games.
 

Sulaco

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2003
3,825
44
91
MS is really messing up this round. There is a lot of bad buzz about the Xbox 720 right now. I am way more interested in the PS4 and I'm sure a lot of people will agree with me.

You do realize this rumor of ceasing used game sales also encompasses the PS4, correct?
 

TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
7,625
5
81
I think it's a bummer if it's true, I have traded games in the past on Craigslist with people and it's worked out well. IMO this is a big hit against the console market, if I can't rent or sell my games then why not just buy games on PC Steam instead.. much much cheaper, better looking, more controller options and killer load times in comparison. Heck with Big Picture mode now it's basically a better looking version of Xbox live anyway with no annual fees and 360 controllers have awesome support.

$60 game I can't sell, or $24.99 I can't sell with all the pros I listed. I'd say "hmmm" but it doesn't even take that long to think about it. I hope MS doesn't make a bad move.
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
Except cars require maintenance and parts that are manufactured by the companies that make the cars. Software will never "break down" or stop working exactly as released. The only ones who can maintain this code are the developers. You are better off comparing it to book. Used book sales contribute $0 to the author and the publisher.

As I said "A demand for used products increases the cost of the product when it's new." Car manufacturers are advertising this high resale because they know it's attractive to the person buying; the car will lose less value over time, when the time comes to sell it.
If these boneheads think they can eliminate resale while still maintaining a $60retail value, they're as clueless as you are.
Exactly. How is this difficult to understand?

I'm sure Sony, MS know this, as it's simple economics. Thus, they either won't do this for the reasons mentioned, or they will, believing that the impact on sales due to non-existent resale is not as substantial as the benefit forcing all games to be bought new. Nonetheless, it will have a downward pressure on price.

Also, if ONE console does this and the other doesn't, you can just wrap it up for the one that does. It shouldn't even bother.

Again, I don't think this is going to happen. I think it's fear mongering and is not tenable.
 

TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
7,625
5
81
Also, if ONE console does this and the other doesn't, you can just wrap it up for the one that does. It shouldn't even bother.

Again, I don't think this is going to happen. I think it's fear mongering and is not tenable.
I agree 100% if one does and the other doesn't it's an automatic crown for one and either a hell of a retract or a permanent exit from gaming hardware.
 

snoturtle

Golden Member
Apr 28, 2001
1,609
1
81
Wouldn't the ruling in the EU about being able to sell used software stop something like this from happening?
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
As I said "A demand for used products increases the cost of the product when it's new." Car manufacturers are advertising this high resale because they know it's attractive to the person buying; the car will lose less value over time, when the time comes to sell it. Exactly. How is this difficult to understand?

I'm sure Sony, MS know this, as it's simple economics. Thus, they either won't do this for the reasons mentioned, or they will, believing that the impact on sales due to non-existent resale is not as substantial as the benefit forcing all games to be bought new. Nonetheless, it will have a downward pressure on price.

Also, if ONE console does this and the other doesn't, you can just wrap it up for the one that does. It shouldn't even bother.

Again, I don't think this is going to happen. I think it's fear mongering and is not tenable.
Except you are comparing two different ideas completely. Cars are not like software in any way. Cars contain thousands of moving parts that require maintenance, parts, and labor. Car companies benefit from having more of their cars on the road, longer. Software developers don't benefit from having people using old, usually antiquated software. Software is also not manufactured using unskilled labor. It takes an individual, or team of individuals, to create a unique product. Very similar to a book or music. Writers and musicians gain nothing from the used sale of their products. More importantly, publishers and record companies see nothing from the used sale of said products. This hurts developers and software publishers just as much.

Do you think the "used" sale of art increases the "new" sale of art? Of course not.
 

Crow550

Platinum Member
Oct 4, 2005
2,381
5
81
Well most if not all modern PC games already use some type of digital distribution like Steam, Origin or Windows Live Gaming which links your keys to your account. Making re-selling them irrelevant. Along with usually needing an internet connection too. They do offer an offline mode. A few games have a specific key that links to your account to unlock certain features of the game that when resold is gimped to anyone that buys it used.

So doing the same on Consoles is no big surprise sadly.... Sucks.... However this looks to be the way they plan to distribute games for now on....
 
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dagamer34

Platinum Member
Aug 15, 2005
2,591
0
71
Wouldn't the ruling in the EU about being able to sell used software stop something like this from happening?

Hasn't affected Steam in the 9+ years it's been operating.

I wish people would stop treating rumors as facts and only get into a hissy fit if Microsoft actually were to announce something like this. Plus, I'd like to hear whatever benefits, if any, such a new system would provide. Steam doesn't let you resell games and in exchange, you can download a new copy to any computer you've signed onto and we get cheaper games.

No used games != retailers banned from lowering prices on new copies (and yes, there will still be some sort of physical distribution system, we don't live in 2050 where fast Internet is plentiful).
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
Except you are comparing two different ideas completely. Cars are not like software in any way. Cars contain thousands of moving parts that require maintenance, parts, and labor. Car companies benefit from having more of their cars on the road, longer. Software developers don't benefit from having people using old, usually antiquated software. Software is also not manufactured using unskilled labor. It takes an individual, or team of individuals, to create a unique product. Very similar to a book or music. Writers and musicians gain nothing from the used sale of their products. More importantly, publishers and record companies see nothing from the used sale of said products. This hurts developers and software publishers just as much.

Do you think the "used" sale of art increases the "new" sale of art? Of course not.
Of course it does. And famous artist currently releasing art work who's known to have a high value in the auction world will receive more money for his pieces today, upon initial release. In fact, thank you for the example, as it's a fantastic one. Basically the only thing motivating sale price of new art is not something tangible, objective (criteria affecting most products), but how others see it; how they will respond, and their likelihood to pay well for it in the future.

Some of you would have me believe that if John Doe always buys new cars and typically replaces them after 5 years that he's just as likely to pay $25k for car A, with a resale price of $300 after 5 years, than car B, an otherwise similar car, also costing $25k, but has a resale of $10k after five years.

This is really very simple economics folks, please. Please.
 

Ashenor

Golden Member
May 9, 2012
1,227
0
0
At first i was like that sucks, then i realized i never ever buy used games.

Good for MS keep the profit instead of gamestop, its funny there stocked dropped about 8% when they first announced this.
 

Anubis

No Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
78,712
427
126
tbqhwy.com
TBH the no used games thing while annoying really does not effect me at all as i dont buy them

the always on connection however does. and i creally cant see that working, far to many people own consoles and dont have an internet connection.
 

Ashenor

Golden Member
May 9, 2012
1,227
0
0
Ya i agree the always on the internet thing seems more of a issue tbh.

Oh crap the cables out again, i am going to play some xbox 720 .... Oh right nevermind.
 

Pray To Jesus

Diamond Member
Mar 14, 2011
3,622
0
0
I didn't buy a console last gen; i mean this current gen which is so old it's ancient gl hf gaming in 2d while i'm balling it up in 3d.
 

RedRooster

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2000
6,596
0
76
I agree 100% if one does and the other doesn't it's an automatic crown for one and either a hell of a retract or a permanent exit from gaming hardware.

I look at it the other way, the first one TO DO it will perhaps gain the favor of all the developers and entice many of them to put out games just for that system. Showing all these broke devs that they can theorhetically make money from every single person playing their game, might carry some weight.
Or not, who knows. I think gaming houses are pretty smart.
 

gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,739
452
126
Ya i agree the always on the internet thing seems more of a issue tbh.

Oh crap the cables out again, i am going to play some xbox 720 .... Oh right nevermind.

I wouldn't put it past them to have an LTE version and partnership with one of the phone companies. You COULD use your home internet and wi-fi but also have a shared LTE data plan. Of course this would be a Live Gold only service and you'd have to either have an account or make an account with that particular phone company to get service.
 

mmntech

Lifer
Sep 20, 2007
17,501
12
0
A lot of people talk about it only hurting Gamestop and other giant retailers. However, there's a lot of small shops owned by a couple of guys or gals that sell used games. There's one here in town here I love going to because they have everything under the sun for virtually any system. These folks are not corporate monsters. They're just a bunch of folks passionate about gaming. These are the ones who will hurt the most if second hand games are banned. It'll put them out of business. Not to mention unpopular titles that go out of print will be forever lost. It'll be a huge loss to the gaming community if Microsoft goes through with it.

Not to mention the consumers rights aspect of it. If you own a hard copy, its your right to buy, sell, or trade it. Imagine if other industries did this and eBay, Autotrader, even Goodwill got shut down. Their justification for it is all very silly when you look at the big picture.
 

Ashenor

Golden Member
May 9, 2012
1,227
0
0
Welcome to PC gaming 15 years ago...

I doubt anything will go out of print in the future, since i am sure that every game will be able to be dititally purchased. Hell maybe it will even drive game prices down, since there is no secondary market.
 

gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,739
452
126
Welcome to PC gaming 15 years ago...

There's been CD keys for along time, but they weren't permanently tied to an account until later. Maybe closer to 10 years but I think even that is a stretch.
 

dagamer34

Platinum Member
Aug 15, 2005
2,591
0
71
Welcome to PC gaming 15 years ago...

I doubt anything will go out of print in the future, since i am sure that every game will be able to be dititally purchased. Hell maybe it will even drive game prices down, since there is no secondary market.

Yep, a lot more instantly-gratifying digital download purchases instead of trying to look around local Gamestops for a game you are interested in or waiting 2 days for Amazon shipping.

For instance, I'm interested in Valkyria Chronicles for PS3 but it's impossible to find new locally and the used game price from Gamestop is more expensive than a new copy from Amazon (but I have to wait 2 days). I'm certain by now that SEGA isn't getting any money off of the game, but if it were on the PSN store for $20, I'd buy it ASAP.

A lot of this stuff I suspect has to do with publisher and retailer agreements that get signed only when a console launches, which is why the PSPgo was doomed to failure because the best games never became available digitally.
 

Crow550

Platinum Member
Oct 4, 2005
2,381
5
81
Well I think this is something that's going to happen eventually.... Already happening in the PC market for the most part....
 

Ashenor

Golden Member
May 9, 2012
1,227
0
0
Honestly think about it a lot of PC games are at least $10 cheaper then console games unless its EA or other. Maybe this will push some games back to $10 bucks since every copy is a new game sold.

I would be down with that.