Microsoft to Drop the Banner Hammer on Used Games With "Xbox 720"

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American Gunner

Platinum Member
Aug 26, 2010
2,399
0
71
Well apparently neither will the 720 ;)
And I don't have a problem with that. I just think it's funny that it is almost a double standard for people. If "certain console" won't let me trade in and play used games, then I will just play PC and steam box. Yeah, especially since PC and steam box lets you play used games....
 

CVSiN

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2004
9,289
0
0
no one knows how this new steambox is going to be, but we could speculate all we want. no one will know for sure. me personally, i don't want "pc" games for the living room, which is all that steam in the living room would be. if i wanted to play pc games, i'd play them on a pc.

steam doesn't blow current console games out of anything, because i can't even access steam on a console.

but i don't want pc games, i want console games that i can play sitting back on my recliner with a controller in my hand.

steam is irrelevant to the console market at the current time.

Why on earth would I want to access Steam from a "console"? Consoles are ALWAYS behind in hardware even when brand new.
Steam Big picture mode is 1000X better than a console.
as it gives that same super easy to use interface and puts it on the PC.

why would I want to play on a console when I can hook up a cutting edge gaming PC or laptop directly to the TV via HDMI and play wireless on the 55 with a wireless 360 controller?
 

CVSiN

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2004
9,289
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And I don't have a problem with that. I just think it's funny that it is almost a double standard for people. If "certain console" won't let me trade in and play used games, then I will just play PC and steam box. Yeah, especially since PC and steam box lets you play used games....

with 49 dollar new titles at 25 bucks new? that kinda deafeats the whole "used game" problem.
as we save even more money than we would have either gameflying it or buyign used.

this is about money.. not anything else.
they take away the cheaper ways to game it's gonna do 2 things.

Drive the modders to hack the shit out of the new consoles therefore promoting even more piracy than now.

and 2 drive people back to other platforms like Steam on a HT gaming PC.
 

Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
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i'd guess that you're in the minority if you have a pc hooked up to a hdtv. especially one that is a "gaming" pc.

It is definitely a very small minority. Lots of people like putting their PC in a seperate room, like an office. But I have been seeing more and more PC setups that also include a large HDTV.

all of those games you mentioned aren't "pc" games in my eyes either though. those are console games ported over to pc.

True, but this is what steambox is targeting. Console games brought to PC...which has been made into a console. Weird, and not really useful to me, but maybe to someone else.

all of the games you mentioned are all old games (at least the ones i am familiar with), so of course they are going to be cheaper now.

They aren't just cheap because they are old. They are old on consoles too. Yet they are significantly cheaper on steam, because steam has crazy deals. I'm talking $5-10 per game. Yes, they are old, but they are probably 20-30 on consoles.

Because of this, I find myself buying less and less console games. If it is available on Steam, I'll get it there instead.

in general though aren't pc versions like $10 cheaper than console ones, at launch?

Sometimes. Not as much anymore. More and more PC games start at $60.
 

American Gunner

Platinum Member
Aug 26, 2010
2,399
0
71
with 49 dollar new titles at 25 bucks new? that kinda deafeats the whole "used game" problem.
as we save even more money than we would have either gameflying it or buyign used.

this is about money.. not anything else.
they take away the cheaper ways to game it's gonna do 2 things.

Drive the modders to hack the shit out of the new consoles therefore promoting even more piracy than now.

and 2 drive people back to other platforms like Steam on a HT gaming PC.
It is all about money, and they aren't seeing anything from used game sales. If people want to play on PC, then feel free. I have no interest, that's why I play consoles. That's also why I post in a console forum, not a PC forum.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
53,039
5,920
126
Why on earth would I want to access Steam from a "console"? Consoles are ALWAYS behind in hardware even when brand new.
Steam Big picture mode is 1000X better than a console.
as it gives that same super easy to use interface and puts it on the PC.

why would I want to play on a console when I can hook up a cutting edge gaming PC or laptop directly to the TV via HDMI and play wireless on the 55 with a wireless 360 controller?

well you are the one in a console forum discussing steam, not me. so that is why i'm comparing steam to consoles.

i have no desire to hook a pc up in a living room, or even my home theater room which is dedicated to media, simply because i prefer the easiness of a console setup. there are no pc exclusive games i give a crap about, and the initial price to make a highend gaming pc is a lot more than a console. hell the vid cards cost more than consoles alone.

steam is 100% irrelevant to consoles right now and if all steambox is is a cheaper living room pc to access steam, it will be 100% irrelevant to me personally when it comes out.
 

CVSiN

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2004
9,289
0
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I'm also a console gamer so yes there is a direct comparison especially with technology now.
And if this DRM comes to pass there will be even more of this discussion.
gaming is a hobby and if it becomes an inconvenience people wont do it.
I will not support MS even though I am a die hard MS supporter on everything else if this happens.
I waited 15 hours in the cold and rain on 360 release and would have again for a good 720 with good hardware.

but not going to happen if they shit on their consumers like this.
internet and DRM? no thanks.
 

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,213
671
136
I'm also a console gamer so yes there is a direct comparison especially with technology now.
And if this DRM comes to pass there will be even more of this discussion.
gaming is a hobby and if it becomes an inconvenience people wont do it.
I will not support MS even though I am a die hard MS supporter on everything else if this happens.
I waited 15 hours in the cold and rain on 360 release and would have again for a good 720 with good hardware.

but not going to happen if they shit on their consumers like this.
internet and DRM? no thanks.

Funny how such a "die hard MS supporter" is reacting so extremely to a rumor that's only from one site.. (the other links I found for this all lead back to the edge site)
 

CVSiN

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2004
9,289
0
0
Funny how such a "die hard MS supporter" is reacting so extremely to a rumor that's only from one site.. (the other links I found for this all lead back to the edge site)

How is saying if this were to happen that is how I'd react "extreme?"
 

RedRooster

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2000
6,596
0
76
I bought a TON of DLC for used games I got off Kijiji, so the devs still got something out of me.
Doesn't bother me much if they cut out used games though, I'll just buy one $60 game a year from here on and play the hell out of it, and then pick up a bunch of $20 ones a year or two after they came out. Never buying those used games will no longer expose me to the smaller developers and niche games. Oh well.
Unless they discount games like they do on Steam, then I'd gladly buy a shwack of $30 newish games.
 
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Jhatfie

Senior member
Jan 20, 2004
749
2
81
If any of this is true, I will pass on the next Xbox. I do not want my console to be force to have a always on connection to play games and I do not like them controlling my ability to sell or loan out a item that I have legally paid for. However, I have purchased less and less console games over the years as their PC twins generally offer far superior frame rates and graphics. 90% of my gaming these days is on the PC and my gaming HTPC. Like others have mentioned, most blockbuster titles are available on the PC as well and are cheaper and generally much better versions and I can still use my xbox 360 controller. Even newer titles like Far Cry 3, Hitman Absolution, Assassins Creed 3, Borderlands 2, etc all work on the PC with a controller. Each one of those I purchased for $20-30 shortly after launch. The only way I would potentially change my mind would be for MS to vastly change their pricing structure with all new releases costing no more than $30-40.
 
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smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
True, but this is what steambox is targeting. Console games brought to PC...which has been made into a console. Weird, and not really useful to me, but maybe to someone else.
This is where the Steambox is going to fail though. I've argued this point in the Steambox thread and the PSN+ vs Xbox Live thread. A Linux based console isn't going to attract anyone except those who already PC game. The only games that will be available will be those developed for Steambox or Linux. Those are so few as it is.

Sometimes. Not as much anymore. More and more PC games start at $60.

This was originally because of the licensing fee charged by MS and Sony, however, the big developers realized the cost of development is going up every year and the price of PC games have been the same for the past 20 years. Inflation in ever other aspect except what the consumer pays for games. PC gamers that bitch about this are morons.

The real damage here is being done to Gamestop and other used game peddlers. They are raping consumers already and reaping huge profits from it. A game released today that costs $60, GS will pay a maximum of $35, then resell that game used for $55. The "developers", which really means the publishers, get less than $50 from the two sales GS makes.
 
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Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
I absolutely guarantee you that if this happens (I still think it may be fear mongering on the part of people not in the know) you'll see new release games at full retail price drop in price much faster than we see today. It's beyond question that a lot of people buy new games at, say, $60 because they know once they are done with it they can sell it for $30-40, thus the game cost only $20-30. I am squarely in this camp. If a new game is $60 and I cannot get anything back, I just will not play any new release game. Downward pressure on prices will be extreme and publishers will have to drop prices fast and hard.

It is written.
 
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Apr 17, 2003
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I'm willing to wager that this rumor turns out to be just that. Remember how intel was going to solder on CPUs in sockets?
 

Doppel

Lifer
Feb 5, 2011
13,306
3
0
so basically you are someone who doesn't put money in the devs pockets anyways, so i'm pretty sure you will have not have an effect on the industry.
Absolutely incorrect. Would you say this about somebody buying used cars, that they have no impact on the industry? That Ford makes no money from them? Is every second-and-beyond owner of a collector's piece screwing the original creator out of anything?

The answer to all questions is no. A demand for used products increases the cost of the product when it's new. This is unequivocal. Hell, look at some auto manufacturers they advertise right in their marketing that the vehicle is a great buy because of its strong resale.
 
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smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
Absolutely incorrect. Would you say this about somebody buying used cars, that they have no impact on the industry? That Ford makes no money from them? Is every second-and-beyond owner of a collector's piece screwing the original creator out of anything?

The answer to all questions is no. A demand for used products increases the cost of the product when it's new. This is unequivocal. Hell, look at some auto manufacturers they advertise right in their marketing that the vehicle is a great buy because of its strong resale.

Except cars require maintenance and parts that are manufactured by the companies that make the cars. Software will never "break down" or stop working exactly as released. The only ones who can maintain this code are the developers. You are better off comparing it to book. Used book sales contribute $0 to the author and the publisher.
 

Sulaco

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2003
3,825
44
91
with 49 dollar new titles at 25 bucks new? that kinda deafeats the whole "used game" problem.
as we save even more money than we would have either gameflying it or buyign used.

this is about money.. not anything else.
they take away the cheaper ways to game it's gonna do 2 things.

Drive the modders to hack the shit out of the new consoles therefore promoting even more piracy than now.

and 2 drive people back to other platforms like Steam on a HT gaming PC.

First off, you need to get over your STEAM pricing obsession, as you are mostly flat out wrong.

STEAM is a great, reliable service. Best in the industry. The STEAM sale prices can be phenomenal.
The crap you're spewing about brand new games being cheaper on STEAM, and brand new $50 games being $25...yeah, that's rubbish. Again, during some sales, for a brief period of time, yes, but STEAM's standard pricing is actually either just MSRP, or can be found better elsewhere.

I'll prove it. Here are the latest games being advertised on the STEAM store:

Far Cry 3 ($49.99 MSRP)
ArmA II Combined Operations ($29.99 MSRP)
Devil May Cry ($49.99 MSRP)
Xcom Enemy Unknown ($49.99 on STEAM, can be had for $30 brand new on Amazon)
Borderlands 2 ($29.99 on STEAM sale for the weekend, same on Amazon download all the time)
Omerta City of Gangerts ($39.99 MSRP)
Sniper Elite V2 ($49.99 on STEAM, Can be had for $20 on Amazon)
Tropico 4 Collector's Bundle ($39.99 MSRP)
Hitman Absolution ($49.99 STEAM, can be had for $38 on Amazon)
Dishonored ($49.99 on STEAM, can be had for $32 brand new on Amazon)
Assassin's Creed 3 ($49.99 on STEAM, can be had for $20 new on Amazon)

...etc, etc, etc

Those aren't cherry picked examples. I just went down the list of "Featured Items" and what STEAM was advertising.

I love STEAM, use it more than any other service combined. But this idea that the deals outside of the sales are better than everyone else, or would negate the point of used or physical copies, is garbage. When the sales are there, it's great. When they're not, everyday prices are usually BETTER on Amazon, GmG, GoG, etc.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,562
9
81
And I don't have a problem with that. I just think it's funny that it is almost a double standard for people. If "certain console" won't let me trade in and play used games, then I will just play PC and steam box. Yeah, especially since PC and steam box lets you play used games....

/facepalm

Console games cost significantly more than PC games. Resale is value is a part of the initial purchase price.

If these boneheads think they can eliminate resale while still maintaining a $60retail value, they're as clueless as you are.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
I laugh at all the "you don't support the developers" comments in this thread :rolleyes:

I'm guessing the devs would like "some" of my money rather than "none" of my money.

Such narrow sheepish minds.
 

exdeath

Lifer
Jan 29, 2004
13,679
10
81
What are you supposed to do when games are out of print and all you can get is used? Not every game occupies half the shelf space all year round like Call of Doody.

This is going to fuck over collectors and small developers and niche titles that don't get more than a month or two of shelf time.

They better be able to mail me a new sealed Radiant Historia or Xenoblade Chronicles (random example of limited run niche game) 5-50 years down the road if a used one doesn't work.
 
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Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
In...what I quoted?

"$49 titles for $25 new" is few and far between, and only during very limited time sales.

He never said out-of-sale price was $25 in his quote.

Getting a title for $25 that would be $50 elsewhere is pretty common. Sales are normal on steam, and are becoming even more prevalent. There was a giant summer, fall, and winter sale. Who knows if there will be a spring. On top of that are daily sales, weekend sales, etc.

Although most new releases are 25-33% off, rather than 50% off, his wording of 'new' I think means non-used. Why buy a used game for 5% off when you can get a 'new' digital version for 50+% off?

The bigger savings are from games 3-6 months old, if you can wait.
 

Dumac

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 2005
9,391
1
0
What are you supposed to do when games are out of print and all you can get is used? Not every game occupies half the shelf space all year round like Call of Doody.

This is going to fuck over collectors and small developers and niche titles that don't get more than a month or two of shelf time.

They better be able to mail me a new sealed Radiant Historia (random example of limited run niche game) 5-50 years down the road if a used one doesn't work.

Digital distribution is making this case less and less relevant.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
If they can control the used market, and the distribution market, the can more easily resell the same game over and over on different systems...you think it's bad now...just wait. This next gen is going to fail hard.