Michael Moore faces US Treasury Probe

[Lanyap]

"Gotta love it- "Free, Freedom and Liberty!" but you can't go to Cuba..."

"It's a stupid law."

"Once again, the right seems to believe it's good to do business with communist countries like China and vietnam, but BAD to do business with a communist country like Cuba..."

"There is nothing wrong with going to Cuba. The only wrong here is the embargo itself."

"There are so many people of Cuban decent living in America now, that opening up relations with Cuba should be a good thing...let them go home and visit their families..."

"Americans should be allowed to travel to Cuba. I'm sorry, but this is an outdated policy whose time has long expired."
"As for the rest of it, I suspect the travel embargo is unconstitutional. It's not like we're at war with Cuba, or that an impoverished island nation could actually be a threat to national security..."


Why didn't you tell Bill when you had the chance?

AMERICANS who hoped that visiting Cuba as tourists might become less complicated saw those hopes evaporate last weekend when President Clinton signed a bill that, among other things, codifies the existing restrictions on United States tourists. The bill also prevents the president or his successors from changing the prohibitions without the approval of Congress.

Personally, I don't have a problem with allowing free travel to Cuba.

MM only did this to publicize his new movie.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: Pabster
There's been a travel embargo to Cuba for years. Moore should have known better; Furthermore, he should have applied for the required license and got approval before his little publicity stunt.

I hope they fine him real good. It's a travesty the money that clown has made off lies.

Jealous 'cause Moore made money off Bushies lies? Try some reprogramming, repeat "bush is not God, george is just a man, a tool of his handlers; and without nepotism, corrupt political backing, and Rove guiding his political career only fit to
be a greeter at walmart".

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Maybe we should make Moore LIVE in Cuba for a year or two. Now that would be an interesting movie.
The subtitle could be ?Now I know why people risk their lives to get out.?

:laugh:

That was my first thought. I was also thinking...If Cuba is so great, why doesn't Moore close up shop here and start his film career in Cuba?

There's a reason people risk life and limb to leave the place.

They are criminals and get free American citizenship when they set foot on dry land? Pick! Pick! Pick!

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
So Michael Moore breaks the law and the left response is ?it?s a stupid law.?

Meanwhile Bush does something totally legal in firing 8 DAs and the response is?? Hmmmm

Moore should take it to court and prove it a "STUPID" law. What has the Anti-Castrol-Cuba laws done other than make Cuba more self reliant and the Cuban people more dependant on Castrol's leadership? Have a :roll:rational thought for once!

 

[BoberFett]

The Cuban embargo is ridiculous and should have been ended a long time ago. As much as I dislike Moore, investigating him on this is simply stupid and looks like sour grapes from the Republicans that Moore has been embarassing for years.

Edit: That said, all I can do is :roll: at some of the fools in this thread who seem to believe Cuba is some kind of communist paradise, like WHAMPOM. You'd send you grandmother to Cuba? Better hope she doesn't hold any outspoken contrary viewpoints, she'd end up dying in prison no matter what kind of health care she had.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Yeh, right, PJ. Moore is a private citizen- it's not his job to enforce the law fairly, nor to have his subordinates lie to congress when he doesn't...

As for the rest of it, I suspect the travel embargo is unconstitutional. It's not like we're at war with Cuba, or that an impoverished island nation could actually be a threat to national security...

It's a civil matter, anyway, rather than criminal, and is likely being selectively enforced. If Moore had made the right political contributions, it wouldn't have been a problem, either...

Unconstitutional?
Umm NO, congress has the right to regulate commerce, that is clearly spelt out in the constitution, the parts that no one reads.

So if there is a law that says you can?t do business with Cuba and Moore breaks that law he is in trouble.

Now I?d much rather see Moore answer the question I posed about him living there than see him in a court over this.

Question for you libs?
You Grandma without insurance has cancer. Would you send her to Cuba for the free medical care, or keep here in the states and take you chances with what treatment she can get?

Cuba, have you seen the medical care old women get in this country? poofjohn?

 

[imported_Tango]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I don?t understand the liberal fascination with Cuba.

Ok 99% literacy and free health care are great, but living and poverty and zero freedom of the press sort of make the first two a little less attractive.

Maybe we should make Moore LIVE in Cuba for a year or two. Now that would be an interesting movie.
The subtitle could be ?Now I know why people risk their lives to get out.?

Nobody thinks zero freedom of press is cool. Poverty is basically a consequence of the embargo. And if you visit Cuba you would understand the fascination: the place is gorgeous, the people amazing, the music incredible.

Honestly, I think keeping the embargo almost 20 years after the cold war is criminal. Cuban people suffered a lot because of it, and still do, and obviously it was not successful in promoting a regime change. One day Castro will die and maybe the regime will collapse, and the embargo will have no role in this. Meanwhile entire generations have suffered for nothing.

 

[BoberFett]

Originally posted by: Tango
Nobody think zero freedom of press is cool. Poverty is basically a consequence of the embargo. And if you visit Cuba you would understand the fascination: the place is gorgeous, the people amazing, the music incredible.

Honestly, I think keeping the embargo almost 20 years after the cold war is criminal. Cuban people suffered a lot because of it, and still do, and obviously it was not successful in promoting a regime change. One day Castro will die and maybe the regime will collapse, and the embargo will have no role in this. Meanwhile entire generations have suffered for nothing.

Exactly. The Soviet Union is gone. Lift the damn embargo already. Holding grudges does no good for anybody.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: Pabster

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Once again, the right seems to believe it's good to do business with communist countries like China and vietnam, but BAD to do business with a communist country like Cuba...

Well this is one "righty" who doesn't see fit to do business with any communist country.

The fact that so many here are apparently fans of Communism makes one ponder...

Open up your computer or any other electronic device made within the past five years. You've put money into China my friend.

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I don?t understand the liberal fascination with Cuba.

Ok 99% literacy and free health care are great, but living and poverty and zero freedom of the press sort of make the first two a little less attractive.

Maybe we should make Moore LIVE in Cuba for a year or two. Now that would be an interesting movie.
The subtitle could be ?Now I know why people risk their lives to get out.?

You mean the right-wing fascination with Cuba, right? Most liberals would open up travel and trade with Cuba in a heartbeat. And there are plenty of central american hellholes worse than Cuba that are our supposed friends. Look into Honduras, Nicaragua and El Salvador why don't you. They are all capitalist paradises.

 

[marincounty]

Originally posted by: Tango

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I don?t understand the liberal fascination with Cuba.

Ok 99% literacy and free health care are great, but living and poverty and zero freedom of the press sort of make the first two a little less attractive.

Maybe we should make Moore LIVE in Cuba for a year or two. Now that would be an interesting movie.
The subtitle could be ?Now I know why people risk their lives to get out.?

Nobody thinks zero freedom of press is cool. Poverty is basically a consequence of the embargo. And if you visit Cuba you would understand the fascination: the place is gorgeous, the people amazing, the music incredible.

Honestly, I think keeping the embargo almost 20 years after the cold war is criminal. Cuban people suffered a lot because of it, and still do, and obviously it was not successful in promoting a regime change. One day Castro will die and maybe the regime will collapse, and the embargo will have no role in this. Meanwhile entire generations have suffered for nothing.

Great post. I'd love to visit Cuba someday. My original point was that the US govt is playing right into Michael Moore's hands by pushing this. These no travel to Cuba laws are ridiculous, and probably unconstitutional if we didn't have courts filled with imbeciles.
I thought Republicans believed in free trade?
Anyway, Michael Moore is going to get millions of dollars of free publicity for his new movie in every newspaper and every TV news show, courtesy of the Bush administration.
He will probably end up with a $10k fine, which for him is like a parking ticket is for you and me. I really admire the man, I don't particularly like him or his movies, but I am really impressed at his skill in promoting his movies. He's like a modern day PT Barnum.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Pabster
Apparently some consider breaking a travel embargo to be a "minor offense".

Two wrongs don't make a right. Your feelings about the Iraq war have nothing to do with this situation.

The travel ban is a wrong, breaking it is a right. Discussion over.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: dphantom

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: Pabster
I hope they fine him real good. It's a travesty the money that clown has made off lies.

As much money as the trillions of dollars of debt for this WAR OF LIES that our great grandchildren will still be paying off long after we're all gone from this planet? :roll:

As much of a lie as "The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." :shocked:

As much of a travesty as 3,382 (as of today) dead and tens of thousands of wounded, scarred and disabled Americans in a war based entirely on LIES?

🙁

Get real! :thumbsdown: :frown: :thumbsdown:

Go back to writing bad music or stay on topic or start another thread. You are boring.

Moore, like anyone who breaks the law, should be held accountable. If that is a fine or jail, so be it.

"an unjust law is no law at all"

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I don?t understand the liberal fascination with Cuba.

Ok 99% literacy and free health care are great, but living and poverty and zero freedom of the press sort of make the first two a little less attractive.

Maybe we should make Moore LIVE in Cuba for a year or two. Now that would be an interesting movie.
The subtitle could be ?Now I know why people risk their lives to get out.?

the problem is that i can go to far worse countries and do far worse things legally than anything i can do in cuba.

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM

Originally posted by: ProfJohn

Originally posted by: Jhhnn
Yeh, right, PJ. Moore is a private citizen- it's not his job to enforce the law fairly, nor to have his subordinates lie to congress when he doesn't...

As for the rest of it, I suspect the travel embargo is unconstitutional. It's not like we're at war with Cuba, or that an impoverished island nation could actually be a threat to national security...

It's a civil matter, anyway, rather than criminal, and is likely being selectively enforced. If Moore had made the right political contributions, it wouldn't have been a problem, either...

Unconstitutional?
Umm NO, congress has the right to regulate commerce, that is clearly spelt out in the constitution, the parts that no one reads.

So if there is a law that says you can?t do business with Cuba and Moore breaks that law he is in trouble.

Now I?d much rather see Moore answer the question I posed about him living there than see him in a court over this.

Question for you libs?
You Grandma without insurance has cancer. Would you send her to Cuba for the free medical care, or keep here in the states and take you chances with what treatment she can get?

Cuba, have you seen the medical care old women get in this country? poofjohn?

QFT. If my grandma wasn't assinely rich i would pick cuba as well.

 

[judasmachine]

He really should be more careful with the amount of people he's pissed off in the past.

 

[CyberDuck]

The U.S. trade embargo is one thing, but not allowing citizens to travel there is in my opinion laughable. Free citizens in a free country should be allowed to travel wherever they want. I don't understand how the Americans can accept that. For me who live in a European country travel is totally legal to Cuba or any other place I might want to go. Cuba is a fairly popular travel destination here, and I might go there myself one day before American tourists invade it.

Regards

Jostein

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: BoberFett

Originally posted by: Tango
Nobody think zero freedom of press is cool. Poverty is basically a consequence of the embargo. And if you visit Cuba you would understand the fascination: the place is gorgeous, the people amazing, the music incredible.

Honestly, I think keeping the embargo almost 20 years after the cold war is criminal. Cuban people suffered a lot because of it, and still do, and obviously it was not successful in promoting a regime change. One day Castro will die and maybe the regime will collapse, and the embargo will have no role in this. Meanwhile entire generations have suffered for nothing.

Exactly. The Soviet Union is gone. Lift the damn embargo already. Holding grudges does no good for anybody.

If anything the embargo has helped keep Cuba under Castro's thumb.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: marincounty

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I don?t understand the liberal fascination with Cuba.

Ok 99% literacy and free health care are great, but living and poverty and zero freedom of the press sort of make the first two a little less attractive.

Maybe we should make Moore LIVE in Cuba for a year or two. Now that would be an interesting movie.
The subtitle could be ?Now I know why people risk their lives to get out.?

You mean the right-wing fascination with Cuba, right? Most liberals would open up travel and trade with Cuba in a heartbeat. And there are plenty of central american hellholes worse than Cuba that are our supposed friends. Look into Honduras, Nicaragua and El Salvador why don't you. They are all capitalist paradises.

Capitalism is one of America's greatest exports. All that embargo has accomplished is to prevent us from exporting it to Cuba.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: dphantom

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: dphantom

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: JD50
I know I suck at singing, at least I can admit it, you on the other hand....

You suck at posting anything other than adminstration bullsh8, too, but that doesn't seem to stop you. :laugh:

Why do your posts always devolve to vulgarities? Educated people can use the english language in a much more literate way to make their points. I thought moveon.orgy's were suposed to be the "elite" and us dumb conservatives hokies from the sticks. Seems based on how you respond to those who disagree with you, that you may in fact be the uneducated buffoon.

BTW, I can't write songs nor sing. At least I do not pretend to be a songwriter (bad one at that) like you.

Why do posts to him always devolve to personal attacks?

Why is calling a bad songwriter a bad songwriter a personal attack? A personal attack would be if one made an assertion on the character of the individual with n proof to support the assertion.

Last time I checked this thread wasn't "American Idol" or "Rate My Song".

 

[Jhhnn]

Remarkable how quickly the rightwing translates opposition to restrictions on American freedoms into commie coddling...

And how they ignore cause and effect wrt Cuban poverty, which is largely a direct result of the American embargo. Which, in turn, only increases the citizenry's dependence on and support for the Cuban govt. At least nobody starves, unlike the situation in other nations in the region- the ones who are our pals...

The travel ban is really a Reagan era artifact, a Presidential decree, ruled constitutional only in the context of the Cold War. Pandering to the Cuban-American community in the runup to the 2000 election led to it being codified by politicians eager to carry Florida. Congress fails to fund enforcement efforts, but the Bush treas. dept does so, anyway, very selectively.

The Cold War is Over, 15 years ago, and therefore the justification for the ban... Too bad nobody thought to institute an economic embargo against KSA in the wake of 9/11, whose active exporting of Wahabbism has done more to destabilize world security than anything else in recent times...

http://www.counterpunch.org/crumpacker01152005.html

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Looney

Originally posted by: Pabster
I hope they fine him real good. It's a travesty the money that clown has made off lies.

Perhaps, but i see you don't put much value on American soldiers lives. That's a much bigger travesty in my eyes.

And just what does that have to do with MM? Are you lefty loons on autopilot all the time? Doesnt matter the subject, always turn the argument back to Iraq.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
So you are saying that because Bush did something, unless Moore does something as drastic, he does not have to be accountable for knowingly breaking the law?

It's a stupid law.

Work to get it changed.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
So you are saying that because Bush did something, unless Moore does something as drastic, he does not have to be accountable for knowingly breaking the law?

It's a stupid law.

Work to get it changed.

I don't need to. I can go to Cuba anytime I want without fear of Arrest.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot
The travel ban is a wrong, breaking it is a right. Discussion over.

Yep, nothing wrong with breaking laws just because you don't agree with them.

Liberals here are such law and order fans.

If you don't like the laws, get Congress to change them.