Michael Moore faces US Treasury Probe

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EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
All this talk about Cuba reminds me of something very ironic regarding JFK.

As President JFK launched the failed invasion of Cuba.
He also led us in to Vietnam which cost over 50,000 lives.
AND he cut taxes?

And yet Democrats worship him as the greatest President since FDR? I don?t get it.

Funny, but it was Eisenhower that got the ball rolling in Vietnam. Johnson was the one who really escalated it and of course he decided not to run for reelection. Remember the "I shall not seek and will not accept" the nomination speech?

Too bad Bush wasn't as honorable.
I thought that Ike sent aid - it was JFK that put "advisors" on the ground.

 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
All this talk about Cuba reminds me of something very ironic regarding JFK.

As President JFK launched the failed invasion of Cuba.
He also led us in to Vietnam which cost over 50,000 lives.
AND he cut taxes?

And yet Democrats worship him as the greatest President since FDR? I don?t get it.

Funny, but it was Eisenhower that got the ball rolling in Vietnam. Johnson was the one who really escalated it and of course he decided not to run for reelection. Remember the "I shall not seek and will not accept" the nomination speech?

Too bad Bush wasn't as honorable.
I thought that Ike sent aid - it was JFK that put "advisors" on the ground.

I beleive Ike had a small number of advisors (around 500) on the ground in S Vietnam. Ike supported the French, footing 80% of the cost of their war but they surrendered in 1954 and he/we set-up and recognized the S Vietnam goverment. He didn't want us getting into a big ground war though. JFK ramped it up some, but still only had 16,000 sodiers there when he was assainated.


Johnson was the one who really commited us
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
5
0
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
All this talk about Cuba reminds me of something very ironic regarding JFK.

As President JFK launched the failed invasion of Cuba.
He also led us in to Vietnam which cost over 50,000 lives.
AND he cut taxes?

And yet Democrats worship him as the greatest President since FDR? I don?t get it.

Funny, but it was Eisenhower that got the ball rolling in Vietnam. Johnson was the one who really escalated it and of course he decided not to run for reelection. Remember the "I shall not seek and will not accept" the nomination speech?

Too bad Bush wasn't as honorable.
I thought that Ike sent aid - it was JFK that put "advisors" on the ground.

I beleive Ike had a small number of advisors (around 500) on the ground in S Vietnam. Ike supported the French, footing 80% of the cost of their war but they surrendered in 1954 and he/we set-up and recognized the S Vietnam goverment. He didn't want us getting into a big ground war though. JFK ramped it up some, but still only had 16,000 sodiers there when he was assainated.


Johnson was the one who really commited us
Kennedy had less than two years to put troops in place. Most I believe initially were Special Forces. I would suspect that given the ramp up from "none" to 16K, indicates that many more would have been committed by Kennedy - LBJ kept some of the DOD advisors. Kennedy may have had the same fear of Communism that Ike had. The lines had to be drawn quickly and firmly.

 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Sweet, he replied!

Open Letter from Michael Moore to U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson

Secretary Henry Paulson

Department of the Treasury

Secretary Paulson,

I am contacting you in light of the document sent to me dated May 2, 2007, which was received May 7, 2007 indicating that an investigation has been opened up with regards to a trip I took to Cuba with a group of Americans that included some 9/11 heroes in March 2007 related to the filming of my next documentary, on the American Healthcare system. SiCKO, which will be seen in theaters this summer, will expose the health care industry's greed and control over America's political processes.

I believe that the decision to conduct this investigation represents the latest example of the Bush Administration abusing the federal government for raw, crass, political purposes. Over the last seven years of the Bush Presidency, we have seen the abuse of government to promote a political agenda designed to benefit the conservative base of the Republican Party, special interests and major financial contributors. From holding secret meetings for the energy industry to re-writing science findings to cooking the books on intelligence to the firing of U.S. Attorneys, this Administration has shown time and time again that it will abuse its power and authority.

There are a number of specific facts that have led me to conclude that politics could very well be driving this Bush Administration investigation of me and my film.

First, the Bush Administration has been aware of this matter for months (since October 2006) and never took any action until less than two weeks before SiCKO is set to premiere at the Cannes Film Festival and a little more than a month before it is scheduled to open in the United States.

Second, the health care and insurance industry, which is exposed in the movie and has expressed concerns about the impact of the movie on their industries, is a major corporate underwriter of President George W. Bush and the Republican Party, having contributed over $13 million to the Bush presidential campaign in 2004 and more than $180 million to Republican candidates over the last two campaign cycles.

It is well documented that the industry is very concerned about the impact of SiCKO. They have threatened their employees if they talk to me. They have set up special internal crises lines should I show up at their headquarters. Employees have been warned about the consequences of participating in SiCKO. Despite this, some employees, at great risk to themselves, have gone on camera to tell the American people the truth about the health care industry. I can understand why that industry's main recipient of its contributions -- President Bush -- would want to harass, intimidate and potentially prevent this film from having its widest possible audience.

And, third, this investigation is being opened in the wake of misleading attacks on the purpose of the Cuba trip from a possible leading Republican candidate for president, Fred Thompson, a major conservative newspaper, The New York Post, and various right wing blogs.

For five and a half years, the Bush administration has ignored and neglected the heroes of the 9/11 community. These heroic first responders have been left to fend for themselves, without coverage and without care. I understand why the Bush administration is coming after me -- I have tried to help the very people they refuse to help, but until George W. Bush outlaws helping your fellow man, I have broken no laws and I have nothing to hide.

I demand that the Bush Administration immediately end this investigation and spend its time and resources trying to support some of the real heroes of 9/11.

Sincerely,
Michael Moore
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Moore is lying moron.

Why doesn't he ask Castro how many "counter revoluntionary" innocents that he and Che murdered?

Until then, he should shut the fsck up.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,333
136
Oh yeah, Bush is stupid, therefore Moore is right....

Now, wait, Moore is stupid, therefore Bush is right...


Wait... is that all there is?
 

JD50

Lifer
Sep 4, 2005
11,750
2,335
126
Originally posted by: daveymark
Originally posted by: jpeyton
I have broken no laws and I have nothing to hide.
That says it all. He broke no laws.

MM said it, so it must be true :)


LOL, I'll have to remember that next time I get caught speeding. "Officer, I have broken no laws and I have nothing to hide".
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
All this talk about Cuba reminds me of something very ironic regarding JFK.

As President JFK launched the failed invasion of Cuba.
He also led us in to Vietnam which cost over 50,000 lives.
AND he cut taxes?

And yet Democrats worship him as the greatest President since FDR? I don?t get it.

Funny, but it was Eisenhower that got the ball rolling in Vietnam. Johnson was the one who really escalated it and of course he decided not to run for reelection. Remember the "I shall not seek and will not accept" the nomination speech?

Too bad Bush wasn't as honorable.
I thought that Ike sent aid - it was JFK that put "advisors" on the ground.

I beleive Ike had a small number of advisors (around 500) on the ground in S Vietnam. Ike supported the French, footing 80% of the cost of their war but they surrendered in 1954 and he/we set-up and recognized the S Vietnam goverment. He didn't want us getting into a big ground war though. JFK ramped it up some, but still only had 16,000 sodiers there when he was assainated.


Johnson was the one who really commited us
Kennedy had less than two years to put troops in place. Most I believe initially were Special Forces. I would suspect that given the ramp up from "none" to 16K, indicates that many more would have been committed by Kennedy - LBJ kept some of the DOD advisors. Kennedy may have had the same fear of Communism that Ike had. The lines had to be drawn quickly and firmly.

Truman was the one who started funding the French in Vietnam. It might have made sense to do so then as we were in the Korean War. Ike could have gotten us out as Vietnam really didn't have much strategic value to us after Korea, but he choose not to. Instead he rigged elections so we had an excuse to stay. That was our first mistake and why I lay the majority of the responsibility on Ike.

We don't know for sure what Kennedy would have done had he not been assainated, but he had to play the hand that was already dealt. I think Kennedy expanded the training/advisors and let them actually go out with the troops they were training and fight, but it was Johnson who removed all the stops.
 

jpeyton

Moderator in SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones
Moderator
Aug 23, 2003
25,375
142
116
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: daveymark
Originally posted by: jpeyton
I have broken no laws and I have nothing to hide.
That says it all. He broke no laws.

MM said it, so it must be true :)


LOL, I'll have to remember that next time I get caught speeding. "Officer, I have broken no laws and I have nothing to hide".
Feel free to chime in when they finally convict him :laugh:

I have a feeling you'll be waiting for a while.
 

daveymark

Lifer
Sep 15, 2003
10,573
1
0
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: daveymark
Originally posted by: jpeyton
I have broken no laws and I have nothing to hide.
That says it all. He broke no laws.

MM said it, so it must be true :)


LOL, I'll have to remember that next time I get caught speeding. "Officer, I have broken no laws and I have nothing to hide".
Feel free to chime in when they finally convict him :laugh:

I have a feeling you'll be waiting for a while.

About as long as it takes Karl Rove to get convicted

Karl Rove also has stated he has done nothing as wrong, so let's call off that investigation too.

see how that works? ;)

I know this is going to disappoint you, but no one worth mentioning is calling for MM's head. Unlike the democrat response to this sort of thing, we usually don't break out the pitchforks and torches everytime we see the word "investigation" :)
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Regardless what happens to Mr. Moore---the Sicko will be shown---and I certainly hope in will open up a national dialog on health care. And maybe even drive some of the money grubbers from the health care temple that should be regarded as a national birthright.

Maybe this country will eventually awaken---and award a freedom Medal to Moore--who deserves it one hell of a lot more than people like Tenet.

I thank God that Moore had the smarts and integrity to make sure that only the messenger and not the message is all that can be attacked. I doubt a jury will vote to convict
making it but one more embarrassment to the thought police. Sicko is one of the few movies I would pay to see.

Let the sunshine in scares the hell out of GWB&co.
 

fornax

Diamond Member
Jul 21, 2000
6,866
0
76
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
There is this thing called intellectual curiosity? maybe you should read up on it?

But intellect is necessary for that, and you're sorely lacking in that department.

 

imported_Lothar

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2006
4,559
1
0
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
All this talk about Cuba reminds me of something very ironic regarding JFK.

As President JFK launched the failed invasion of Cuba.
He also led us in to Vietnam which cost over 50,000 lives.
AND he cut taxes?

And yet Democrats worship him as the greatest President since FDR? I don?t get it.

JFK didn't lead us to Vietnam.
 

imported_Lothar

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2006
4,559
1
0
Originally posted by: Vic
Oh yeah, Bush is stupid, therefore Moore is right....

Now, wait, Moore is stupid, therefore Bush is right...


Wait... is that all there is?

They're both stupid. How about that? ;)

Whatever the case, it's pretty clear that this is nothing but a publicity stunt Moore is pulling to promote his film, and arresting him will only make him earn millions of dollars more from it.
Hell, I haven't heard anything on Michael Moore since the mid-term elections.

This incident will earn him more money than ever required to post bail or reach a settlement.
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Regardless what happens to Mr. Moore---the Sicko will be shown---and I certainly hope in will open up a national dialog on health care. And maybe even drive some of the money grubbers from the health care temple that should be regarded as a national birthright.
Healthcare is not a ?right?
A right is something that requires no action from anyone else in support of your ?right.?

Free speech is an example; you can say anything you want and no one else is obligated to take any kind of action or expend money or effort based on what you say.

Healthcare is not a ?right? because it requires you to impose on others.
In order for you to get healthcare someone else must spend time and effort to provide you with that health care. And that time and effort takes money.

I don?t want to go on, but if you really think healthcare is a ?right? then maybe you should look at moving to one of the countries that has free healthcare. (Be sure to write about how great the system is too.)
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: Lemon law
Regardless what happens to Mr. Moore---the Sicko will be shown---and I certainly hope in will open up a national dialog on health care. And maybe even drive some of the money grubbers from the health care temple that should be regarded as a national birthright.
Healthcare is not a ?right?
A right is something that requires no action from anyone else in support of your ?right.?

Free speech is an example; you can say anything you want and no one else is obligated to take any kind of action or expend money or effort based on what you say.

Healthcare is not a ?right? because it requires you to impose on others.
In order for you to get healthcare someone else must spend time and effort to provide you with that health care. And that time and effort takes money.

I don?t want to go on, but if you really think healthcare is a ?right? then maybe you should look at moving to one of the countries that has free healthcare. (Be sure to write about how great the system is too.)

There are plenty of countries where healthcare is a right. Also emergency healthcare is already a right since hospitals can't refuse emergency care to anyone regardless of ability to pay, and ER care certainly requires action of others to support, so your definition doesn't work.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
3
0
Once again non Prof John shows he does not understand rights when he says---Free speech is an example; you can say anything you want and no one else is obligated to take any kind of action or expend money or effort based on what you say.

In that is true---why is GWB&co. so damn afraid of Micheal Moore using his free speech rights to make a film----and felt compelled to get back at Joe Wilson when he debunked their claim
of Uranium from Niger. And its also why I feel compelled to act when someone's free speech rights are violated--regardless if I agree with what they say or not.

Many countries regard healthcare as a national birthright---and sorry Johnney--I am staying here to help see that the good ole USA is added to that list. But it must really eat your guts to see that Castro is more humane and compassionate than GWB&co.
 

CyberDuck

Senior member
Oct 10, 1999
258
0
0
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I don?t want to go on, but if you really think healthcare is a ?right? then maybe you should look at moving to one of the countries that has free healthcare. (Be sure to write about how great the system is too.)

Are you talking about healt care "system" or the way the country is run? When it comes to healtcare provided / cost the american "system" is by far the worst in the world by spending 40% more pr. capita than any other country in the world (1999). U.S. is also the only country in the world (afaik) without a universal health care system.
 

imported_Tango

Golden Member
Mar 8, 2005
1,623
0
0
Originally posted by: CyberDuck
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
I don?t want to go on, but if you really think healthcare is a ?right? then maybe you should look at moving to one of the countries that has free healthcare. (Be sure to write about how great the system is too.)

Are you talking about healt care "system" or the way the country is run? When it comes to healtcare provided / cost the american "system" is by far the worst in the world by spending 40% more pr. capita than any other country in the world (1999). U.S. is also the only country in the world (afaik) without a universal health care system.

Correct. On a performance/per-capita expenditures the US heathcare is the worst among developed countries.

It shouldn't be a surprise, considering health-care and pharma companies can basically bill your insurance whatever they want. A lot of drugs used here in the US are available overseas as generics for 1/20th of the price.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
I am looking forward to this movie. No one has answered to my satisfaction how Cuba spends 1/10th or less of what we do on healthcare per capita, yet has similar life expectancy.
I am hoping this movie will. Now, it may not be applicable to our situation, but we need to learn lessons from every country out there before we attempt to fix our own system, even if the right in this country wants to remain ignorant and shout slogans about how we are the best healthcare system in the world.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
There have been lots of people from congress that have had trip to Cuba, but none of them went to jail!