Mexican trucks to start rolling into the US Saturday.

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Originally posted by: Citrix

Right, but they're inspected as they come in. Everyone is just assuming that because they're Mexican they're automatically unsafe, don't know how to drive and idiots. What do you really know about Mexican truck drivers or Mexicans at all. NOTHING. And don't start talking about Mexicans being corrupt when there's absurds amount of corruption and hypocrisies going on in this country as we speak. IT IS racism and you'll never be able convince me otherwise.

Mexico is corrupt are you saying it isn't? if pulling the race card is your only argument then you are weak.

I'm saying us calling Mexico corrupt is hypocritical coming from our country. Corruption is rampant anywhere in the world.

Originally posted by: babylon5
Thank god American truck drivers will lose their jobs, saids race card wavers.

They haven't been losing there jobs to Canadians, so why would they lose them to inferior Mexicans? And where in my post did I say I would like American truck drivers to lose there jobs?

And there is a difference in employment in Canada vs Mexico? Mexico has a huge unemployment rate and a huge surplus of potential workers while Canada is already very close to the US. This is not a Canada vs Mexico issue. Not to mention, it was stated earlier (on CNN) that these Mexican truck drivers would be paid $0.40 per every dollar earned by US truck drivers. Corporations will drop US truck drivers as quick as they can hire the Mexicans to drive for pay difference like that, and don't think for one second that they won't.


And NAFTA is FREE trade...we trade our jobs freely to Mexico for their freely roaming drivers to deliver the goods now produced in Mexico (instead of the US) back to us. Just wait until good imported from other countries are passed through Mexican ports vs US ports. Another way that corporations can rid theirselves of US workers in favor of dirt cheap Mexican labor.


Oh, and one other argument. I sure hope that the Mexican drivers drive better in the US than they do in Mexico. With a complete lack of respect of the laws of the road and common courtesey on Mexican streets, I would hate to be driving beside 50 tons of truck driving that way (and yes, I've been to Mexico many times and refuse to drive there because of the lack of rule following and courtesy on the roads).

 

[HombrePequeno]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Uh?

The agreement is the same as a treaty and NAFTA is also not free trade. Saying it's not a treaty is just splitting hairs.

 

[Wreckem]

Just because the title doesnt include the word treaty, doesnt mean its not a treaty.

Under International Law it is deemed a treaty. The two other countries participating in it consider it a treaty.

And while it is only considered a Congressional-Executive Agreement, it still went before the Senate and passed the Senate like a treaty.

Treaty is defined differently in the US than it is in the Rest of the World.

NAFTA is a treaty. People on Anandtech seem to like to argue semantics a lot.

 

[Turgon77]

We are no longer a sovereign nation. Our government has utterly failed to uphold the Constitution. This North American Union thing, leading to a one world government, seems to be the real deal. Government and corporate America have betrayed this country. We all have fallen into this trap of Democrat vs Republican.... some violently wrapped into this delusion... when there is no such thing as a two party system. There is one party in this country - the ELITE party. The Elite party, which is controlled by and/or part of various factions of corporate America, lives in the materialistic NOW, willing to sell its soul and the soul of America for a quick buck. To facilitate the control the Elite party has over the population - TV, entertainment, prescription drugs, government handouts, and chemicals in the food supply are all used to reduce the individual's ability to self-create and self-sustain. As a country we are re-creating the conditions that existed in the "Old World" from which our founders and each following wave of immigrants fled. We've been duped into debating trivial matters, such as gay marriage, abortion, etc..... while the country is slowly being stolen away from us. We are encouraged to divide on issues like this because it is effective in taking our attention away from the fact that government and international government elites see the American people as an obstacle to world domination and control
If I sound like a lunatic, it's because you're wrapped up in the illusion. I was wrapped up in it until recently. To wake up and see everything as it really is creates feelings of anger, then liberation, and then peace. Success is only achieved by "seeing the battlefield." When enough people wake up things will change for the better. I do believe that the majority of the American people are "good " people.... this is especially evident when you travel to other parts of the world. And despite what I said initially, I do NOT believe that all corporations and high level execs are evil.... the majority are also good people/organization... It's just that a significant number of people at high levels of government and corporate America are NOT good people and have taken drastic steps to diminish the American people.... all for money and power.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Turgon77
We are no longer a sovereign nation.

Our government has utterly failed to uphold the Constitution.

This North American Union thing, leading to a one world government, seems to be the real deal.

Government and corporate America have betrayed this country.

We all have fallen into this trap of Democrat vs Republican.... some violently wrapped into this delusion... when there is no such thing as a two party system. There is one party in this country - the ELITE party.

The Elite party, which is controlled by and/or part of various factions of corporate America, lives in the materialistic NOW, willing to sell its soul and the soul of America for a quick buck.

To facilitate the control the Elite party has over the population - TV, entertainment, prescription drugs, government handouts, and chemicals in the food supply are all used to reduce the individual's ability to self-create and self-sustain.

As a country we are re-creating the conditions that existed in the "Old World" from which our founders and each following wave of immigrants fled. We've been duped into debating trivial matters, such as gay marriage, abortion, etc..... while the country is slowly being stolen away from us.

We are encouraged to divide on issues like this because it is effective in taking our attention away from the fact that government and international government elites see the American people as an obstacle to world domination and control

If I sound like a lunatic, it's because you're wrapped up in the illusion. I was wrapped up in it until recently.

To wake up and see everything as it really is creates feelings of anger, then liberation, and then peace. Success is only achieved by "seeing the battlefield." When enough people wake up things will change for the better.

I do believe that the majority of the American people are "good " people.... this is especially evident when you travel to other parts of the world. And despite what I said initially,

I do NOT believe that all corporations and high level execs are evil.... the majority are also good people/organization...

It's just that a significant number of people at high levels of government and corporate America are NOT good people and have taken drastic steps to diminish the American people.... all for money and power.

Welcome to P&N

I have been posting about this battle for years now.

Although you talk about the two parties be prepared to be chastised by those on the radical side of the party system. You will not hear an argument from those called "loonie lefts".

Us "Loonies" are looking to try and save the country not just from radicals but from corrupts that exist on the left as well.

What do you see happening with so many people "waking up".

You mention peace and change for the better.

How do you see the ones that have "woken up" and "seeing the battlefield" winning?

Civil war?

Crusades kind of battles through the church?

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: EngineerNot to mention, it was stated earlier (on CNN) that these Mexican truck drivers would be paid $0.40 per every dollar earned by US truck drivers. Corporations will drop US truck drivers as quick as they can hire the Mexicans to drive for pay difference like that, and don't think for one second that they won't.

I bet lots of optimistic folks who believe that "the economy is good and getting goodah" will also believe that American businesses wouldn't dream of doing this to America's truck drivers. They're probably thinking:

"Heck, there's probably a huge truck driver shortage and truck driving is a job that Americans don't want to do. Have American businesses ever done anything like that before? Of course not! The American businesses that are hiring those foreigners on H-1B and L-1 visas aren't replacing American workers, they're just taking jobs in fields where there aren't enough Americans. And besides, if Americans really do suffer from unemployment or underemployment, our booming economy will open up new fields for Americans to work in, yeah."

And NAFTA is FREE trade...we trade our jobs freely to Mexico for their freely roaming drivers to deliver the goods now produced in Mexico (instead of the US) back to us. Just wait until good imported from other countries are passed through Mexican ports vs US ports. Another way that corporations can rid theirselves of US workers in favor of dirt cheap Mexican labor.

I hadn't thought of that, but it's a great point. No reason to pay American longshoremen at first world American incomes when you could pay Mexican longshoremen at third world Mexican wages.

I just hope that all of the folks who advocated for global labor arbitrage get to suffer a huge comeuppance once they realize (if they ever do) that their policies helped to transform the United States into a South American third world country. Perhaps the rest of us can pelt those boneheads with rotten tomatoes or better yet, just string up the politicians who sold us out.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: Turgon77 I was wrapped up in it until recently. To wake up and see everything as it really is creates feelings of anger, then liberation, and then peace.

Let me guess...you had to face the reality of the job market in some sort of a way...you graduated from college and couldn't find a job in your field...or you lost your job and had to look for another one...or your spouse lost his or her job and had to look for one.

It's amazing how actually having to confront the stark reality of our nation's soon-to-be third world job market can change philosophies and opinions. It worked for me.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: Ktulu

Right, but they're inspected as they come in.

ROFL! Did you just fall off the back of a turnip truck? Do you really think that U.S. customs is going to have either the willpower or the resources to actually do this? Heck, the U.S. doesn't even have the willpower to prevent illegal aliens from invading the country. What makes you think that U.S. customs will have the willpower or the manpower to inspect Mexican trucks? They're probably just going to waive them on through.

 

[StageLeft]

I find the topic summary very confusing. How are mexican trucks coming into the country affecting soverignty? I see trucks from Ontario in NY state ALL the time. They go throughout the entire country here, deliverying Canadian goods and/or taking US ones back home. Mexican trucks will do the same thing. They already do, they just have to waste time loading/unloading their trucks to US ones. Kind of insulting, really

Now, if it's from a TRUE, honest safety standpoint, then make sure they are up to par and let them in under the same conditions Canadian ones are let in.

BTW: can somebody tell me why I've NEVER seen a Mexican car in the US? Are they also not allowed in for the same reason? This is interesting, since in Alabama, for instance, there are no safety inspections ever needed on a car, so I wonder what the real reason is.

BTW 2, this country doesn't need to worry about mexican trucks, it needs to worry about 1-2M uneducated illegals coming in every year, though concern for each issue is not mutually exclusive. I'd love to see the US actually care about keeping out illegals.

EDIT: Ah, if they are truly paid a great deal less I can see how they'd be compromising work for Americans here, and since Mexico is a craphole with a garbage economy, it's not like those Americans can make it up by taking extra work in Mexico.

 

[babylon5]

Union Boss Blasts Mexican Truck Decision

By JOHN PORRETTO
AP Business Writer

September 8, 2007

HOUSTON ? President Bush has "sucker punched" American workers and threatened national security by opening the nation's southern border to Mexican truckers, Teamsters President James Hoffa said Saturday.

Speaking to the union's annual women's conference, Hoffa said the Bush administration's new pilot program, which took effect Thursday, shows a lack of concern for homeland security.

"Oh, George Bush is so worried about national security," said Hoffa, adding that his biggest problem with the program is not knowing enough about the truckers and what they are hauling.

"And they're going to be coming across that border driving all over Canada and the United States. That's his vision of America, that's not our vision," Hoffa told about 1,000 women and guests in a downtown hotel ballroom.

The U.S. Transportation Department granted permission Thursday to Transportes Olympic, based in a suburb of Monterrey, Mexico, to haul cargo anywhere in the United States as part of the North American Free Trade Agreement. In turn, Mexico granted authority to Stagecoach Cartage & Distribution Inc. of El Paso to travel anywhere in Mexico.

Government lawyers said the program is a necessary part of the North American Free Trade Agreement and that trucks enrolled in the program would meet U.S. regulations.

Hoffa said he would go to Congress next week to try to get the program halted.

"Does anybody know how all the drugs are coming into America?" he asked the gathering. "They're going to be coming in trucks pretty soon. It's only a matter of time."

The government says it has imposed rigorous safety protocols in the program, including drug and alcohol testing for drivers done by U.S. companies. Additionally, law enforcement officials have stepped up nationwide enforcement of a law that's been on the books since the 1970s requiring interstate truck and bus drivers to have a basic understanding of written and spoken English.

A report by the transportation department's inspector general said the U.S. Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration, which regulates truck safety, had made progress addressing Congress' requirements.

But it also said the administration had no coordinated plans for checking trucks and drivers participating in the test program, and that the motor carrier safety group needed to do more to help enforce the English requirement for drivers.

Neither trucking company began crossing immediately, needing first to determine new routes, said John Hill, who runs the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration.

Hill said the Mexican carrier indicated it would begin crossing into the U.S. during the weekend; the American outfit was expected to start sometime next week.

Canadian trucking companies already have full access to U.S. roads, but Mexican trucks can travel only about 20 miles inside the country at certain border crossings. The new pilot program is designed to study whether opening the U.S.-Mexico border to all trucks can be done safely.

Even before the first truck crosses, detractors like Hoffa have spoken out.

Dozens of truckers protested at border crossings in Texas and California on Thursday, denouncing as dangerous and unfair the program that will allow up to 100 Mexican trucking companies to cross a total of 1,000 vehicles into the U.S. In Laredo, Texas, protesters carried signs reading "NAFTA Kills" and "Unsafe Mexican Trucks."

By the end of the month, the U.S. plans to give up to 25 Mexican firms permission to haul cargo and will add another 25 per month until reaching 100 by the end of the year under a one-year pilot program.

Mexico also has committed to allow trucks from up to 100 U.S. firms to travel anywhere in Mexico by year's end.

The Teamsters, Sierra Club and watchdog group Public Citizen sued to stop the program, arguing there won't be enough oversight of drivers entering the U.S. from Mexico. But a federal appeals court ruled last week the Bush administration could move ahead.

 

[Turgon77]

The continued use of labels - in your case "left" - is just another case of division that government has created. In many people's minds there may be a left and right, but in reality either one believes in the a sovereign United States based upon the Constitution, or one does not believe in the United States. People are so caught up in the left and right crap, democrat/republican, blue/red, city/rural, rich/poor, etc. that they have become blinded to the fact that government, regardless of the "D" or "R", has sold out to other interests.... interests that may have roots in corporate America and interests that may have roots in international circles.
For the people to wake up, and see the battlefield, this battlefield being the conscious effort by the world elite to diminish the American people, one must reclaim one's own body and mind. Most prescription drugs, especially depression drugs, diminish the individual and at the same give ownership of one's body to the drug companies and doctors. I see so many overly medicated people out there that have become walking zombies, unable to truly function. Along the with the prescriptions comes the nutritionally bankrupt, chemically laced foods (all to increase profits!) that put these people on drugs in the first place. Whether you believe in Darwin or God, the answers to one's health are in nature, not some financially motivated chemical lab.
The mind is further diminished by advertising that makes people virtual slaves to various products... products made in some third world hole to make additional bucks in the bottom line. THis advertising mind control occurs from a very young age. And further, the entertainment industry poisons our minds with movies and games based on senseless violence.... kids especially affected.
That view of how things are is depressing..... it really is. BUT, this view leads to a reclamation of the self. I know that I sound crazy, but when one starts to take control of one's body, loses the ego investment in politics (no more titles of d or r or left or right), and steps outside of the mind control forces, it is VERY liberating and there is opportunity to improve one's financial situation on top of it all. I believe all of this is the first step. Once the population reclaims themselves, then we can begin changing (NOT fighting) some of these government and corporate structures from the inside. I'd love to see "left" and "right" unify to take our country, environment, energy production and manufacturing back. I don't claim to have the answers, but like I said, I know that first step is reclaiming yourself.
THat's my view. I hope I don't sound like a nut!

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Turgon77
We are no longer a sovereign nation.

Our government has utterly failed to uphold the Constitution.

This North American Union thing, leading to a one world government, seems to be the real deal.

Government and corporate America have betrayed this country.

We all have fallen into this trap of Democrat vs Republican.... some violently wrapped into this delusion... when there is no such thing as a two party system. There is one party in this country - the ELITE party.

The Elite party, which is controlled by and/or part of various factions of corporate America, lives in the materialistic NOW, willing to sell its soul and the soul of America for a quick buck.

To facilitate the control the Elite party has over the population - TV, entertainment, prescription drugs, government handouts, and chemicals in the food supply are all used to reduce the individual's ability to self-create and self-sustain.

As a country we are re-creating the conditions that existed in the "Old World" from which our founders and each following wave of immigrants fled. We've been duped into debating trivial matters, such as gay marriage, abortion, etc..... while the country is slowly being stolen away from us.

We are encouraged to divide on issues like this because it is effective in taking our attention away from the fact that government and international government elites see the American people as an obstacle to world domination and control

If I sound like a lunatic, it's because you're wrapped up in the illusion. I was wrapped up in it until recently.

To wake up and see everything as it really is creates feelings of anger, then liberation, and then peace. Success is only achieved by "seeing the battlefield." When enough people wake up things will change for the better.

I do believe that the majority of the American people are "good " people.... this is especially evident when you travel to other parts of the world. And despite what I said initially,

I do NOT believe that all corporations and high level execs are evil.... the majority are also good people/organization...

It's just that a significant number of people at high levels of government and corporate America are NOT good people and have taken drastic steps to diminish the American people.... all for money and power.

Welcome to P&N

I have been posting about this battle for years now.

Although you talk about the two parties be prepared to be chastised by those on the radical side of the party system. You will not hear an argument from those called "loonie lefts".

Us "Loonies" are looking to try and save the country not just from radicals but from corrupts that exist on the left as well.

What do you see happening with so many people "waking up".

You mention peace and change for the better.

How do you see the ones that have "woken up" and "seeing the battlefield" winning?

Civil war?

Crusades kind of battles through the church?

 

[Turgon77]

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: Turgon77 I was wrapped up in it until recently. To wake up and see everything as it really is creates feelings of anger, then liberation, and then peace.

Let me guess...you had to face the reality of the job market in some sort of a way...you graduated from college and couldn't find a job in your field...or you lost your job and had to look for another one...or your spouse lost his or her job and had to look for one.

It's amazing how actually having to confront the stark reality of our nation's soon-to-be third world job market can change philosophies and opinions. It worked for me.

Actually, my wife and I are solid financially and professionally and have never lost our jobs. But I can see how that would be an eye opener for some. Like I said in my previous post, we have to reclaim ourselves first to reclaim the country.

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Skoorb


EDIT: Ah, if they are truly paid a great deal less I can see how they'd be compromising work for Americans here, and since Mexico is a craphole with a garbage economy, it's not like those Americans can make it up by taking extra work in Mexico.

Why would they be paid anything near what an American trucker would be paid. The average wage in the border area is between $0.80 and 0.95 per hour, for general factory worker. An engineer starting in a production plant in Mexico makes $3.00 per hour. These trucker are Mexicans working out of Mexico and driving into the US. I'm suprised that it was quoted that they would make $0.40 on the dollar of a US trucker. I actually thought it would be much lower.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally posted by: Turgon77

Actually, my wife and I are solid financially and professionally and have never lost our jobs. But I can see how that would be an eye opener for some. Like I said in my previous post, we have to reclaim ourselves first to reclaim the country.

I agree with you that we need to "reclaim" ourselves, although in many people's cases, their is nothing to "reclaim" and they need to discover reason. My view is that our nation's politics are a direct result of the populace's underlying philosophy. Currently, that philosophy is predominantly altruism, which is why people support mass immigration and illegal immigration.

However, paradoxically, the people are also infused with an irrational economic optimism and a sense of irrational individualism; most Americans believe that their well being is based on their own hard work and actions and is completely independent from broader economic and societal factors and are also very optimistic that an unregulated economy will produce the best results.

Of course, there is much truth to those viewpoints (individualism, personal responsibility, capitalism) but Americans fail to understand just how crucial broader economic and societal factors are to their well being, which is why they've failed to grasp the economic and societal implications of global labor arbitrage and population explosion.

To reclaim America, Americans need to discover reason and rational self interest. Unfortunately, I doubt that it will happen until long after the destruction of the country has occurred or is too late to stop. If it were going to happen, Americans would have already figured it out by now.

 

[Turgon77]

Reason and rational self interest is difficult to grasp in a society that is controlled by chemicals, prescription drugs, and devious multimedia advertising.... all delivered via the "Elite" party/government partnership to each individual at a very young impressionable age. Many people do not have ownership over their own bodies and minds because of these influences.
I don't know what it will ultimately take to awaken the population in general. There is still a significant number of very rational, morally grounded people. However, that number is decreasing as the above influences continue to penetrate American society and the current influx of immigrants bring an increasingly violent atmosphere into the inner cities. My wife (elementary) and father-in-law (secondary) are teachers at inner-city schools. Many people on forums such as this do not grasp the gravity of the immigrant inner-city situation..... there is frequently little to no desire to learn and integrate into American society, because government policy encourages them NOT to integrate. This government policy is a puzzling notion until you realize that a divided country is one that is more easily controlled. Self-responsibility is becoming non-existent in the inner-cities (both immigrant and native peoples) and it is spreading to other economic levels.
I don't necessarily agree that government is a result of the populace. Yeah, we do elect them, only because choice has been forcibly removed due to the technological advances (prescription drugs, media, chemicals, etc.) that have controlled us to make it so. I don't know what the answer is..... each person that sees the battlefield that exists here has an enormous opportunity to change things by helping people reclaim (or as you say, simply CLAIM in the first place) their existence.

Originally posted by: WhipperSnapper

Originally posted by: Turgon77

Actually, my wife and I are solid financially and professionally and have never lost our jobs. But I can see how that would be an eye opener for some. Like I said in my previous post, we have to reclaim ourselves first to reclaim the country.

I agree with you that we need to "reclaim" ourselves, although in many people's cases, their is nothing to "reclaim" and they need to discover reason. My view is that our nation's politics are a direct result of the populace's underlying philosophy. Currently, that philosophy is predominantly altruism, which is why people support mass immigration and illegal immigration.

However, paradoxically, the people are also infused with an irrational economic optimism and a sense of irrational individualism; most Americans believe that their well being is based on their own hard work and actions and is completely independent from broader economic and societal factors and are also very optimistic that an unregulated economy will produce the best results.

Of course, there is much truth to those viewpoints (individualism, personal responsibility, capitalism) but Americans fail to understand just how crucial broader economic and societal factors are to their well being, which is why they've failed to grasp the economic and societal implications of global labor arbitrage and population explosion.

To reclaim America, Americans need to discover reason and rational self interest. Unfortunately, I doubt that it will happen until long after the destruction of the country has occurred or is too late to stop. If it were going to happen, Americans would have already figured it out by now.

 

[BoomerD]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/200...l_nm/mexico_blast_dc_3
Dozens dead in Mexico truck crash and blast

NADADORES, Mexico (Reuters) - A tractor-trailer loaded with explosives blew up in Mexico on Monday after a traffic accident, creating a huge fireball that killed dozens, including rescue workers and photographers.

People stuck in the traffic jam caused by the accident were also killed in the blast that left a crater 65 feet wide and 9 feet deep near the town of Nadadores in the northern state of Coahuila, witnesses and officials said.

"There were body parts scattered in the trees," said Paulina Luna, 62, a local resident who was evacuated to a shelter. Her brother's home was flattened. "The house was swept from the earth as if it never existed," she said.

The tractor-trailer had collided with a pickup and burst into flames. Firemen at the scene were trying to put out the blaze when they ran out of water. Moments later there was a huge explosion that almost obliterated the rig.

"We were waiting about 100 meters (300 feet) from the crash when there was an incredibly loud bang. Suddenly there were flying rocks and a fireball," said Silverio Alfonso Amador, 44, who was in the traffic jam and survived the explosion.

His face was covered with burns and his ears stuffed with cotton wool.

At least 29 people were killed and around 150 injured, up to 30 of them in serious condition in local hospitals, state officials said. Radio stations reported that about 40 people had died.

Around 260 people living close to the site in a small desert roadside village called Selemania were evacuated.

An army explosives expert at the scene told Reuters the tractor-trailer was carrying 25 metric tons of ANFO, a mixture of ammonium nitrate and fuel oil used widely in the mining industry. Coahuila is a major mining state.

Soldiers and police cordoned off an area up to a mile around the site of the blast, which badly damaged eight houses and blew out the windows of 60 others.

Witnesses said 26 wrecked and charred cars were hauled away from the scene. TV images showed a body hanging from a power line.

"We found part of the engine," Coahuila state police chief Fausto Destenave-Kuri told Reuters. "The truck practically disintegrated."

Three of the dead were local journalists.

"Reporters who were taking photographs died there as well as emergency workers and drivers who stopped to help," state Gov. Humberto Moreira said.


It sounds like Mexican laws are much looser than US laws on the hauling of hazardous/explosive materials...

This also speaks to the earler thread where someone was questioning the possibility of using fertilizer as an explosive...

 

[rpanic]

http://dorgan.senate.gov/newsroom/record.cfm?id=282361

I can?t believe our government did something good for the American people. They stoped the Mexican truck program.