Mexican shot dead while throwing rocks at Border guards

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piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
Maybe we should just send the military across and shoot up their town. Border guards are basically federal Agents. If they are attacked because Mexico does not police their side of the border, then the attack should be considered an act of war.

Maybe if the Military pursued a few thugs accross the border they would find someplace else to play. You border means nothing if you do not defend it. Put some .50 cal machineguns on our side.
 
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PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
The idea that a group of criminals assaulting a federal officer is not sufficient grounds to have the federal officer defend himself is absurd. The idea that our border patrol should retreat to avoid confrontation with criminals is even more absurd. Any criminal assaulting a federal officer in the line of duty should expect the use of whatever force is needed to stop the assault.
 
Red Dawn

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
PokerGuy said:
The idea that a group of criminals assaulting a federal officer is not sufficient grounds to have the federal officer defend himself is absurd. The idea that our border patrol should retreat to avoid confrontation with criminals is even more absurd. Any criminal assaulting a federal officer in the line of duty should expect the use of whatever force is needed to stop the assault.
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Depends on the assault and where it's coming from. Kids throwing rocks from the Mexican side of the border might not be grounds for deadly force.Being shot at from the Mexican side of the border is. They don't even know if the kid shot was throwing rocks.
 
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Tangerines

Senior member
Oct 20, 2005
304
0
0
Red Dawn said:
Depends on the assault and where it's coming from. Kids throwing rocks from the Mexican side of the border might not be grounds for deadly force.Being shot at from the Mexican side of the border is. They don't even know if the kid shot was throwing rocks.
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Read the article:

News Article said:
This agent, who had the second subject detained on the ground, gave verbal commands to the remaining subjects to stop and retreat," Simmons said. "However, the subjects surrounded the agent and continued to throw rocks at him. The agent then fired his service weapon several times, striking one subject who later died.
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The BP officer was being assaulted by a mob, some of who were throwing rocks at him. The officer was clearly in danger, and despite retreating and ordering the mob to stop, they were continued to attack him. The kid may or may not have been throwing rocks, but he was part of a mob attacking the officer. This isn't an incident of one lone Mexican kid throwing rocks from afar. This was assault with intent to injure, if not kill. The officer was perfectly justified in using his weapon to defend himself. Seems like a fairly open and shut case to me.
 
Red Dawn

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Tangerines said:
Read the article:



The BP officer was being assaulted by a mob, some of who were throwing rocks at him. The officer was clearly in danger, and despite retreating and ordering the mob to stop, they were continued to attack him. The kid may or may not have been throwing rocks, but he was part of a mob attacking the officer. This isn't an incident of one lone Mexican kid throwing rocks from afar. This was assault with intent to injure, if not kill. The officer was perfectly justified in using his weapon to defend himself. Seems like a fairly open and shut case to me.
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It very well could be. It also states that the officer was surrounded , that being the case some of those assaulting him were on US territory further adding justification to the shooting. I really hope that the officer is found to have acted properly.
 
JSt0rm

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,948
126
well if he was surrounded while he was "Out for Justice" then hell yes this kid was "Marked for Death" The BP was simply "driven to kill"
 
AzN

AzN

Banned
Nov 26, 2001
4,112
2
0
Funny when American boarder patrol kill it's justified but when NK boarder patrol kill it's a sin. Can't stand the hypocrisy from most of these Americans.
 
irishScott

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,562
3
0
AzN said:
Funny when American boarder patrol kill it's justified but when NK boarder patrol kill it's a sin. Can't stand the hypocrisy from most of these Americans.
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Lol. Big difference between shooting at rock throwers and shooting on sight.
 
DesiPower

DesiPower

Lifer
Nov 22, 2008
15,299
740
126
AzN said:
Funny when American boarder patrol kill it's justified but when NK boarder patrol kill it's a sin. Can't stand the hypocrisy from most of these Americans.
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hypocrisy, I can stand, idiocy... not so much...
 
MJinZ

MJinZ

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 2009
8,192
0
0
AzN said:
Funny when American boarder patrol kill it's justified but when NK boarder patrol kill it's a sin. Can't stand the hypocrisy from most of these Americans.
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Invaders must die.

Who the fuck wants to go to North Korea?

Exactly.
 
Cuda1447

Cuda1447

Lifer
Jul 26, 2002
11,757
0
71
Red Dawn said:
Depends on the situation. If he really was facing a situation where firing his gun was the only way to insure that he and his fellow officers wouldn't be injured than maybe it was justified. However if just by retreating to a distance where the rocks wouldn't be a threat then that would have been the correct thing to do.

At this time we really don't know the whole situation so it's a bit premature to say what they did was wrong.
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I understand where you are coming from Red Dawn, avoid death at all costs. However, I think retreating is a poor solution. If someone is putting you in a situation where you need to retreat from defending your countries borders, well... that someone is probably doing something pretty bad. Shoot to kill might be a bit overboard, but we don't know the full details.

All we know is this. There was a mexican playing around our border. Strike one. He was throwing rocks at our officers. Strike two. He was apparently doing so with a lot of other people, creating a lot of commotion/instability and after being warned by the officers to cease, did not listen. Strike 3+.

At the end of the day, it is unfortunate this kid died. However, this kid had NO business doing whatever the fuck it was he was doing.
 
Red Dawn

Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,529
3
0
Cuda1447 said:
I understand where you are coming from Red Dawn, avoid death at all costs. However, I think retreating is a poor solution. If someone is putting you in a situation where you need to retreat from defending your countries borders, well... that someone is probably doing something pretty bad. Shoot to kill might be a bit overboard, but we don't know the full details.

All we know is this. There was a mexican playing around our border. Strike one. He was throwing rocks at our officers. Strike two. He was apparently doing so with a lot of other people, creating a lot of commotion/instability and after being warned by the officers to cease, did not listen. Strike 3+.

At the end of the day, it is unfortunate this kid died. However, this kid had NO business doing whatever the fuck it was he was doing.
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If he was throwing rocks you're right.

Anyway according to the reports this officer didn't have any other option as it stated he was surrounded. I just hope it doesn't escalate to were they start shooting at our guards from across the border, especially in Cuadad Juarez where there are a lot of firearms in the hands of real criminals and drug gangs.
 
Z

Zargon

Lifer
Nov 3, 2009
12,218
2
76
still hard to tell if you are batshit crazy or being super sarcastic


edit: nevermind....figured it out with a simple 'search for posts by user'
 
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werepossum

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
flavio said:
Oh a straw man argument! A mainstay of rightist idiots.

Let's replace that with Mexico attacking humanitarian ship headed for the US.
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Actually that's a pretty good analogy. "You are much better armed than am I, but I'm going to attack you with potentially deadly force and hope that, since you are so much better armed, you will restrain yourself from returning my attack and merely accept my bludgeoning hoping it won't be fatal, because I am so self-important that I cannot imagine not getting my way."

In other words, 10 cases of idiots meeting natural selection (and the 10th Darwin Award candidate) rather than just nine.
 
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Pneumothorax

Golden Member
Nov 4, 2002
1,182
23
81
Red Dawn said:
If he was throwing rocks you're right.

Anyway according to the reports this officer didn't have any other option as it stated he was surrounded. I just hope it doesn't escalate to were they start shooting at our guards from across the border, especially in Cuadad Juarez where there are a lot of firearms in the hands of real criminals and drug gangs.
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In some ways, this might be the best thing to happen so we can finally close our border and set up a "DMZ"
 
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DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
werepossum said:
Actually that's a pretty good analogy. "You are much better armed than am I, but I'm going to attack you with potentially deadly force and hope that, since you are so much better armed, you will restrain yourself from returning my attack and merely accept my bludgeoning hoping it won't be fatal, because I am so self-important that I cannot imagine not getting my way."

In other words, 10 cases of idiots meeting natural selection (and the 10th Darwin Award candidate) rather than just nine.
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The funny part about flavio is that he is a grade A master at pumping out fallacies. Which includes crap fallacies that are obvious for everyone to read when he posts.
 
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spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Not good. This could have gotten a lot worse. And now Mexico is claiming the border agents crossed into mexico, US has video that shows that isn't the case. And mexican agents crossed into US territory and retrieved bullet casing.

This could continue to get ugly. Few people can try to claim that protecting our borders isn't one of the primary duties of the federal government and an act of war almost happened.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hVwK0KHNx8zNZllGOsezjfqUKoRAD9G80S180

Pointing their rifles, Mexican security forces chased away U.S. authorities investigating the shooting of a 15-year-old Mexican by a U.S. Border Patrol agent on the banks of the Rio Grande, the FBI and witnesses told The Associated Press on Wednesday.
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A U.S. official close to the investigation told the AP that authorities have a video showing that the Border Patrol agent did not cross into Mexico. In fact, the official said, the video shows what appear to be members of Mexican law enforcement crossing onto the U.S. side, picking something up and returning to Mexico. The official was not cleared to speak about the video and spoke only on condition of anonymity.
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DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
S

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
DucatiMonster696 said:
Ugly for Mexico, a wake up call for Americans in this nation as to who they are dealing with next door.
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They certainly aren't our friends. See edit. Tensions are going to keep escalating and I hope your right, that Americans wake up to what is going on.
 
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