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McGwire admits using steroids

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surfsatwerk said:
It's been established that you're bat shit insane from your comments regarding Pete Rose.
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I'm sane enough to base my beliefs on evidence (and include links).
Pete Rose IS a convict.
Pete Rose AGREED to be banned from baseball.
Lyle Alzado did NOT die from steroids - so stop spreading that lie!!!
Hitler believed that if you tell a lie often enough it would become accepted as truth. You're far to incompetent to become as evil as Hitler, but you're a liar and a fascist (for trying to impose your narrow minded view points on the rest of the country) all the same...
 
Eric62 said:
I'm sane enough to base my beliefs on evidence (and include links).
Pete Rose IS a convict.
Pete Rose AGREED to be banned from baseball.
Lyle Alzado did NOT die from steroids - so stop spreading that lie!!!
Hitler believed that if you tell a lie often enough it would become accepted as truth. You're far to incompetent to become as evil as Hitler, but you're a liar and a fascist (for trying to impose your narrow minded view points on the rest of the country) all the same...
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Godwin's Law has now officially been imposed
 
surfsatwerk said:
To me it is harder to understand how meth can enhance performance like roids can. I've done meth and I couldn't imagine playing sports all wacked out of my skull. But I know that is only my personal bias and the fact is that some players felt it did enhance the way they played.
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Meth no but Dexies and Crosstops most definitely can help as they aren't as powerful and give you energy, fight fatigue and help with concentration. Back in the day when I was a Carpenter I use to take them occasionally and it really helped me be more productive. Meth on the other hand does just what you said, gets you whacked out of your brain. Bad Ju Ju Meth is.
 
Eric62 said:
I'm sane enough to base my beliefs on evidence (and include links).
Pete Rose IS a convict.
Pete Rose AGREED to be banned from baseball.
Lyle Alzado did NOT die from steroids - so stop spreading that lie!!!
Hitler believed that if you tell a lie often enough it would become accepted as truth. You're far to incompetent to become as evil as Hitler, but you're a liar and a fascist (for trying to impose your narrow minded view points on the rest of the country) all the same...
Click to expand...

In fairness I only said said that Lyle died and that he used steroids. The publicity regarding steroid use reached a fever pitch around the time of his death and that was the focus of my statement. But rage on by all means.
 
Red Dawn said:
Meth no but Dexies and Crosstops most definitely can help as they aren't as powerful and give you energy, fight fatigue and help with concentration. Back in the day when I was a Carpenter I use to take them occasionally and it really helped me be more productive. Meth on the other hand does just what you said, gets you whacked out of your brain. Bad Ju Ju Meth is.
Click to expand...

Well I learned something new today. I admit that drugs have always been a part of baseball. It just sucks and I don't know what to say about it.
 
surfsatwerk said:
In fairness I only said said that Lyle died and that he used steroids. The publicity regarding steroid use reached a fever pitch around the time of his death and that was the focus of my statement. But rage on by all means.
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TO be perfectly honest before I saw that video clip I was under the impression that Steroids caused his brain cancer, that's what we were led to believe by Lyle himself.

Besides giving th Juicer an unfair advantage my biggest problem with ROIDS is that youngsters would try to emulate their Heroes and use it which is harmful to them.
 
Red Dawn said:
TO be perfectly honest before I saw that video clip I was under the impression that Steroids caused his brain cancer, that's what we were led to believe by Lyle himself.

Besides giving th Juicer an unfair advantage my biggest problem with ROIDS is that youngsters would try to emulate their Heroes and use it which is harmful to them.
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Of course you thought that. The vast majority of Americans think that.
Lyle said it often enough, his wife made a career on the talk show circuit about it, and the media made millions selling news about it.
Not even anti - steroid doctors believed it, but that FACT didn't sell newspapers.
It's proof positive that a lie repeated often enough becomes accepted as truth.
The documentary "Bigger, Stronger, Faster" is IMO worth the time it takes to watch.

Another opinion of mine is that children should be discouraged from emulating ALL athletes. I tried to chew tobacco when I played sandlot baseball - 'cause that's what the big leagers did. Fortunately it made me sick and I quit - LOL.
 
surfsatwerk said:
Your morality is akin to a sewer if you think gambling is worse than cheating by using steroids.
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Thanks for the deep insight.

It has nothing to do with anybody's personal morality, including Pete Rose's distinct lack thereof. The issue is much bigger than any individual, it is the very legitimacy of a sport.

Gambling on the game opens up every single decision to question, everything around a player or manager is an endless game of what-if's, and everything becomes a gray area of whether people are *competing or not*. That's not the issue with steroid users -- they do what they do to play better. They are still competing and trying to win.

Cheaters deserve punishment too, but there is a clear difference between gamblers and cheaters.
 
jjsole said:
Rose didn't affect the outcomes negatively of any games nor try to gain an illegal advantage like the steroid users. He was addicted to gambling, but there wasn't any evidence he did a '19 sox and threw games or betted against his own team.
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Rose's latest iteration of the truth is claiming that he bet on the Reds to win, every single game. Of course he has to say this, otherwise his glimmer of hope for the HOF gets the death knell. John Dowd, MLB investigator with 20 years of credibility as opposed to Rose with 20 years of lies, says Rose did not bet on all Reds games, and had specific Reds starters who he would never bet on.

So then you have to question the lineup decisions Rose was making in those games he didn't bet on, was he sandbagging in those games and saving players for his money games? Did he overuse his players in games where he had a lot riding, at the expense of future games? You can take these hypotheticals in a million directions, none of them good.

Baseball drew a line in the sand, given the sport's early history (long before and leading up to the Black Sox), they had to develop rules that *crush* anybody who gambles if they ever wanted to be viewed as a legitimate contest. Rule 21(d) is posted in every MLB clubhouse. Pete Rose knew he was taking a horrible risk and staring at a banhammer. He chose to cross that line in the sand any way. I have no pity for him. He should have had the sense to walk away from managing if he couldn't control himself.
 
Ok so when asked directly "Could you have hit 70 homeruns without Steroids?" McGwire answers something like

"Absolutely. You still need eye-hand coordination to hit the ball. A box of pills or an injection is not going to make me hit the ball. I only used steroids to recover quicker from injuries."

1. - That is still cheating. If Griffey Jr. or someone of these other guys could recover faster, maybe they hit more HRs too

2. - Bull$hit that it doesn't make you hit it better. Steroids don't just make you bigger or stronger. They can absolutely affect your coordination, concentration, and muscle fiber to allow you to react more quickly. That takes a 40HR season with 30 extra fly outs to the fielders, into a 70 HR season.

He's lied for so long that he believes he's telling truth.
 
SludgeFactory said:
Rose's latest iteration of the truth is claiming that he bet on the Reds to win, every single game. Of course he has to say this, otherwise his glimmer of hope for the HOF gets the death knell. John Dowd, MLB investigator with 20 years of credibility as opposed to Rose with 20 years of lies, says Rose did not bet on all Reds games, and had specific Reds starters who he would never bet on.

So then you have to question the lineup decisions Rose was making in those games he didn't bet on, was he sandbagging in those games and saving players for his money games? Did he overuse his players in games where he had a lot riding, at the expense of future games? You can take these hypotheticals in a million directions, none of them good.
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I never heard Rose say he bet on his team every game and don't know where you got that from. Dowd never concluded he bet on his teams to lose either. How you draw conclusions that he would have thrown games that he didn't bet on...that doesn't make sense because he wouldn't even have had incentive to lose those games...quite the opposite.
 
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