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McGwire admits using steroids

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McGuire did steroids, he put in some amazing statistics. Lots of other dudes did steroids and did NOT have such amazing statistics.

All ML ball players are really good, or they don't get to the major leagues. Everybody does what he can to find an edge. It's those extra things that mean the difference between ho-hum and star.

I think it's a mistake for him to pull the I've-suffered-feel-sorry-for-me card. Doesn't quite match his behavior - great playing on roids, "not lying" to congress, etc.

Curious to see how his players improve when he becomes a hitting coach.
 
princess ida said:
Doesn't quite match his behavior - great playing on roids, "not lying" to congress, etc.
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Listened to an interview with one of the Congressman that was there at the time and he said in a pre-hearing meeting that McGwire all but admitted to PED use but wouldn't testify to that effect because of legal liabilities. They tried to get immunity for his testimony but the Attorney General wouldn't allow it.
 
Red Dawn said:
Yeah and?
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You can't do that and have it make any sense. For a player to go to his doctor and get a prescription for anabolic steroids is not comparable to Mark McGuire, and all the other roid heads of the 90's, using ban substances like steroids and human growth hormone.

It's not even just a legal issue, but nobody knew shit about the medical consequences of the crap they were putting into their body. These baseball players cheated and lied knowing full well the consequences of their actions. They watched football players like Lyle die and all the media and legal backlash against roids in the 80's and early 90's and said, "the rules don't apply to me." In my opinion it is that attitude of entitlement that killed the appeal of pro baseball.
 
Gamingphreek said:
Did you listen to Costas interview him? McGwire was literally caught between a rock and hard place at Congress. He repeatedly said that he wanted more than anything to tell everyone.

-Kevin
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I didn't, so I don't know the details of that situation, but he didn't need to wait years and years to come out with the truth. Coming out with the truth after you're pressured to do so earns you no brownie points, IMO. An honest person with a conscience doesn't wait to do / say what's right.

EDIT - I'm not bitching about McGwire so much as I am about that sports talk host who was commending him for his honesty.
 
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surfsatwerk said:
You can't do that and have it make any sense. For a player to go to his doctor and get a prescription for anabolic steroids is not comparable to Mark McGuire, and all the other roid heads of the 90's, using ban substances like steroids and human growth hormone.

It's not even just a legal issue, but nobody knew shit about the medical consequences of the crap they were putting into their body. These baseball players cheated and lied knowing full well the consequences of their actions. They watched football players like Lyle die and all the media and legal backlash against roids in the 80's and early 90's and said, "the rules don't apply to me." In my opinion it is that attitude of entitlement that killed the appeal of pro baseball.
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As usual you are full of crap. It doesn't matter when they did it or who they got it from. In fact some of the Baseball players did get the HGH and Steroids from Licensed Doctors but it doesn't make it any better.

Also the double standards I'm talking about between Baseball and Football exist today. Where's the big uproar over Star Football Players like Shawn Merrimen juicing? There isn't, he got a relative slap on the wrist and probably will end up in the Football HOF if he keeps up his stats.
 
SludgeFactory said:
And there it is, the obligatory "Pete Rose" post in a baseball steroids thread.

What Pete Rose did is *FAR WORSE* than what any steroid user will ever do to the integrity of baseball.
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jjsole said:
Uhm. No.
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SludgeFactory said:
Great arguments guys. I'm convinced.
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I provided as much analytics in my comment as yours. 😉

Rose didn't affect the outcomes negatively of any games nor try to gain an illegal advantage like the steroid users. He was addicted to gambling, but there wasn't any evidence he did a '19 sox and threw games or betted against his own team.

Rose was also a MLB hitting and competition god, matched by few in [certain] stats and passion for the game (and of course his hits record of >4k will probably never be matched...ever imo)

However he did throw his integrity under the bus by lying for so many years, and only confessing when he'd profit from it via book (but this is a guy banned from baseball who needed money, so I don't really care about this.)

The HOF is incomplete without him.
 
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Red Dawn said:
As usual you are full of crap. It doesn't matter when they did it or who they got it from. In fact some of the Baseball players did get the HGH and Steroids from Licensed Doctors but it doesn't make it any better.

Also the double standards I'm talking about between Baseball and Football exist today. Where's the big uproar over Star Football Players like Shawn Merrimen juicing? There isn't, he got a relative slap on the wrist and probably will end up in the Football HOF if he keeps up his stats.
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I don't know what kind of special knowledge you think people 30 and 40 years ago were supposed to have about steroids. They didn't juice as a shortcut, they juiced as a natural progression to their training. They did it out in the open because it was an acceptable method to supplement their training. Hell Mac claims he kept it a secret from everyone, including his wife. Why would he do that if he didn't damn well know it was wrong.

Football has a testing program and Merrimen got caught, if he continued to abuse banned substances he would receive drastically increasing penalties. Baseball sat around and did jack shit to test it players even after all the abuse and scandal that occurred in other sports and the players union hold their share of the guilt for that inaction.

Edit: I'm not defending anyone's choice to juice. I'm just saying that the abuse in football in the 70's isn't directly comparable to the problems baseball has.
 
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How anyone can take Roidball seriously any more is beyond me.

The most hallowed record in the "sport" was (and still is) held by notorious, well-known cheaters. The Yankees can buy championships. Etc...

"America's past time"...pshaw!
 
surfsatwerk said:
You can't do that and have it make any sense. For a player to go to his doctor and get a prescription for anabolic steroids is not comparable to Mark McGuire, and all the other roid heads of the 90's, using ban substances like steroids and human growth hormone.

It's not even just a legal issue, but nobody knew shit about the medical consequences of the crap they were putting into their body. These baseball players cheated and lied knowing full well the consequences of their actions. They watched football players like Lyle die and all the media and legal backlash against roids in the 80's and early 90's and said, "the rules don't apply to me." In my opinion it is that attitude of entitlement that killed the appeal of pro baseball.
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Anyone who thinks Lyle Alzado died from steroids is either stupid or a liar.
Try to clean the shit stains off of your eyes and ears and educate yourself before you further display your ignorance.

I'll even help you learn how not to make an douche bag out of yourself: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1214580768278932315#
 
Xanis said:
Who didn't see this coming? Honestly...
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Him saying that he took steroids? I didn't see it coming (I had mostly forgotten about bonds)

However, There was little doubt in my mind that he did steroids, I just didn't think he would admit it.
 
MLB should cash in on this and make a mini-series.

JUICED - The Jose Canseco Story
JUICED - The Sammy Sosa Story
JUICED - The Mark McGwire Story
JUICED - The Rafael Palmeiro Story
JUICED - The Jason Giambi Story
JUICED - The A-Roid (or A-Fraud if you prefer) Story

And, the ultimate season finale:

JUICED - The Barry Bonds Story (you know, the cheater that holds MLB's most hallowed record)

Every show could open with the same montage: various MLB players and figureheads giving the same excuse: "Everybody did it, and there was no testing or punishment, so it must be okay!"

PS - If any of these cheaters ever get voted into the MLB Hall of Fame, Pete Rose should be instantly inducted. Talk about double standards..."only certain forms of cheating are condoned by Major League Baseball." 🙄
 
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surfsatwerk said:
Don't be pissy just because I disagreed with you.
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The thing is Rose bet on Baseball games, some allege the games he managed. While cheating by using Steroids is bad, even if McGwire was facing Pitchers using them, it's not as bad as betting on Baseball when you could possible affect the outcome of the game.
 
Red Dawn said:
The thing is Rose bet on Baseball games, some allege the games he managed. While cheating by using Steroids is bad, even if McGwire was facing Pitchers using them, it's not as bad as betting on Baseball when you could possible affect the outcome of the game.
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If there was proof floating around out there that Pete fudged up games he was gambling on then I would agree with you 100%. The accusation his gambling effected games does not upset me as much as the fact players were juiced up when they broke records.
 
surfsatwerk said:
If there was proof floating around out there that Pete fudged up games he was gambling on then I would agree with you 100%. The accusation his gambling effected games does not upset me as much as the fact players were juiced up when they broke records.
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Are you as upset to find out that players like Mays, Mantle and Arron took Amphetamines when they played?

I'm not all that bothered that they were juiced, it was more than obvious. I remember the Angel team that beat the Giants in the WS, half the guys in that lineup looked like Linebackers yet it was one of the greatest World Series in my memory.

Some of the best Baseball was played in the Steroid Era.
 
Red Dawn said:
The thing is Rose bet on Baseball games, some allege the games he managed. While cheating by using Steroids is bad, even if McGwire was facing Pitchers using them, it's not as bad as betting on Baseball when you could possible affect the outcome of the game.
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I agree, his managing years should not even be considered when looking at the Hall of Fame. His PLAYING years should be considered. Show me one piece of evidence that during his playing years Pete Rose bet on games he was a part of.
 
Red Dawn said:
Are you as upset to find out that players like Mays, Mantle and Arron took Amphetamines when they played?

I'm not all that bothered that they were juiced, it was more than obvious. I remember the Angel team that beat the Giants in the WS, half the guys in that lineup looked like Linebackers yet it was one of the greatest World Series in my memory.

Some of the best Baseball was played in the Steroid Era.
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To me it is harder to understand how meth can enhance performance like roids can. I've done meth and I couldn't imagine playing sports all wacked out of my skull. But I know that is only my personal bias and the fact is that some players felt it did enhance the way they played.

I grew up watching baseball and I quit during the "homerun race" between Sosa and Mac. The fact nobody else seemed to care, and that those players weren't getting drug tested, enraged me. I just quit watching the game rather than get pissed off.

I couldn't have cared less about the issue until I started reading some shit head sports writers praising Mac for coming clean. That kinda threw me into bit of a rage all over again. It's so fudged up how they can continue to persecute Pete Rose and act like Mac is so noble for his brand of cheating.
 
Possessed Freak said:
I agree, his managing years should not even be considered when looking at the Hall of Fame. His PLAYING years should be considered. Show me one piece of evidence that during his playing years Pete Rose bet on games he was a part of.
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Actually I don't have a problem with him being inducted into the HOF. I remember him during his playing days and he was great.
 
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