McCain wants to lift ban on offshore drilling

[piasabird]

I have one thing to say. Lets force a vote on this before the Presidential election and see how Obama Votes. If he votes against it, we will know he is against the interests of the USA and If McCain votes for it, we will make him president.

Force the issue now and force an up or down vote!

Shut up and Drill!

 

[Xavier434]

I don't trust that McCain will wait until the kinds of proper written rules are put into place first and free of loopholes before he permits the drilling. I support his stand on Nuclear Power though. Unfortunately, that issue alone isn't enough for me to vote for him over Obama. The Nuclear Power thing is pretty much the only part of him I support.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: piasabird
I have one thing to say. Lets force a vote on this before the Presidential election and see how Obama Votes. If he votes against it, we will know he is against the interests of the USA and If McCain votes for it, we will make him president.

Force the issue now and force an up or down vote!

Shut up and Drill!

Again, that is really easy to say when your home is not going to be effected.

 

[Drift3r]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: Xavier434

I'm not certain about off shore drilling specifically but I recall a lot of stories about tankers spilling oil and I have seen the effects with my own eyes. It is awful. I by no means a treehugger but damn...

would you rather have the chinese with no experience doing it or americans with lots of experience doing it?

I expect Americans with lots of experience at out sourcing will farm the work to Chinese su contractors. You'll probably say it wont happen but if their is profit in it then somehow it will happen.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: yuppiejr

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Vic
More election year pandering over an issue that will NOT be decided by the next President.

I'm luke-warm on this myself. It made sense to hoard our own reserves and buy foreign oil while oil was cheap. Now that it is no longer cheap, we should start developing more of our own sources. However, no amount of known reserves is going to get us off dependence on foreign oil. We will never be an oil producing nation, and always a oil consuming nation. So this would be a very short-term fix, at best, and would have little to no effect on global oil prices in and of itself.

I partially disagree with the last bit. I think a major increase in the production of oil from the United States would be a big shock to the system. Especially to the oil speculators who are betting on prices going higher and higher. ANWR would be an extra million+ barrels of oil a day. Off-shore oil fields could be more than that. It would also help strengthen the dollar as the oil money and jobs would be coming here instead of going overseas.

No, we will likely never be able to completely provide all of our oil needs but there is no reason for us to continue to move toward being 100% dependent on foreign oil either. We are producing less oil now than we were 30 years ago.

We still need to work on higher mpgs and other dependable sources of energy but there is no reason why we can't chew gum and walk at the same time.

Very well said, particularly the last 2 paragraphs.

Except that oil is much more than just an energy source. Look around you. You're literally bathed in it. When reserves really do start to get tight (which they inevitably will someday without some kind of change in policy), we're going to regret like hell that we burned so much of it. Especially when we don't have to. And I'm not talking about biofuels. If we just developed a better electric battery, we could get ourselves off foreign oil dependence almost overnight. And as we're already very close to that technology, IMO if we were actually serious about our talk, we'd put our money and our efforts where our mouths are.

 

[Dari]

Well, it has worked well for the Gulf states, I think we should let all states do as they please.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: piasabird
I have one thing to say. Lets force a vote on this before the Presidential election and see how Obama Votes. If he votes against it, we will know he is against the interests of the USA and If McCain votes for it, we will make him president.

Force the issue now and force an up or down vote!

Shut up and Drill!

Again, that is really easy to say when your home is not going to be effected.

I can see it now: All the landlocked states will vote for it while the others will be against it. Instant loss for McCain.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: piasabird
I have one thing to say. Lets force a vote on this before the Presidential election and see how Obama Votes. If he votes against it, we will know he is against the interests of the USA and If McCain votes for it, we will make him president.

Force the issue now and force an up or down vote!

Shut up and Drill!

That's a pretty little black-and-white world you live in. :roll:

Short-term thinking idiots like you are arguably against the interests of the USA more than anyone else. Seriously. Some of us want to leave a strong and powerful America for our grandchildren too. Yaknow... "stewardship"? Or do I have to quote the D&C for you?

 

[yuppiejr]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: piasabird
I have one thing to say. Lets force a vote on this before the Presidential election and see how Obama Votes. If he votes against it, we will know he is against the interests of the USA and If McCain votes for it, we will make him president.

Force the issue now and force an up or down vote!

Shut up and Drill!

Again, that is really easy to say when your home is not going to be effected.

How will your home be directly effected by placing an oil rig 50 miles off shore using the same safety measures that prevented a significant oil spill just a few years ago during a class 5 hurricane? It's not like Florida won't benefit from the SIGNIFICANT tax revenues that it will receive by bringing said oil business to the state.

If someone built a nuclear power plant 50 miles from my home that produced clean, renewable energy, reduced my energy bills and provided significant tax revenue for the state, reducing my personal tax burden, I'd be thrilled.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Dari
Well, it has worked well for the Gulf states, I think we should let all states do as they please.

This is actually a point which deserves a good deal of attention from anyone wishing to make an educated decision. I would like to know the details regarding the history of their drilling. Specifically, I would be looking for the history of their accidents and long term effects on their shores.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: piasabird
I have one thing to say. Lets force a vote on this before the Presidential election and see how Obama Votes. If he votes against it, we will know he is against the interests of the USA and If McCain votes for it, we will make him president.

Force the issue now and force an up or down vote!

Shut up and Drill!

Again, that is really easy to say when your home is not going to be effected.

I lived along the Texas coast in two different places (Corpus Christi and Houston). It was as beautiful as Texas can get.

I understand your concern, but again I look back at Katrina cutting a large swath through the off-shore oil rigs in the Gulf. Prior to Katrina arriving, they shut down all the rigs and removed the men. Only three of the hundreds of rigs out there were destroyed. Many were damaged. The environmental impact was nil as far as the rigs were concerned.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: yuppiejr

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: piasabird
I have one thing to say. Lets force a vote on this before the Presidential election and see how Obama Votes. If he votes against it, we will know he is against the interests of the USA and If McCain votes for it, we will make him president.

Force the issue now and force an up or down vote!

Shut up and Drill!

Again, that is really easy to say when your home is not going to be effected.

How will your home be directly effected by placing an oil rig 50 miles off shore using the same safety measures that prevented a significant oil spill just a few years ago during a class 5 hurricane? It's not like Florida won't benefit from the SIGNIFICANT tax revenues that it will receive by bringing said oil business to the state.

If someone built a nuclear power plant 50 miles from my home that produced clean, renewable energy, reduced my energy bills and provided significant tax revenue for the state, reducing my personal tax burden, I'd be thrilled.

I agree here. Environmental issues are among the least of our concerns right now on this topic (provided that the oil drillers comply with existing regulation).

Your 2nd paragraph is what I take issue with. A new nuclear power plant near your home would not reduce your energy bills. In fact, it would probably make them go up to cover the costs of the new plant. America does NOT have an energy shortage.

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Dari
Well, it has worked well for the Gulf states, I think we should let all states do as they please.

This is actually a point which deserves a good deal of attention from anyone wishing to make an educated decision. I would like to know the details regarding the history of their drilling. Specifically, I would be looking for the history of their accidents and long term effects on their shores.

The only negative environmental impact came not from the oil rigs but actually from the refineries on shore. I don't believe Florida would be building any oil refineries.

A positive environmental impact of the rigs is fishing. :laugh: You can find some of the best fishing in Texas and Louisiana near the rigs.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Dari
Well, it has worked well for the Gulf states, I think we should let all states do as they please.

This is actually a point which deserves a good deal of attention from anyone wishing to make an educated decision. I would like to know the details regarding the history of their drilling. Specifically, I would be looking for the history of their accidents and long term effects on their shores.

Well, if you live in Florida, then they're your neighbor. Just ask.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: yuppiejr

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: piasabird
I have one thing to say. Lets force a vote on this before the Presidential election and see how Obama Votes. If he votes against it, we will know he is against the interests of the USA and If McCain votes for it, we will make him president.

Force the issue now and force an up or down vote!

Shut up and Drill!

Again, that is really easy to say when your home is not going to be effected.

How will your home be directly effected by placing an oil rig 50 miles off shore using the same safety measures that prevented a significant oil spill just a few years ago during a class 5 hurricane? It's not like Florida won't benefit from the SIGNIFICANT tax revenues that it will receive by bringing said oil business to the state.

If someone built a nuclear power plant 50 miles from my home that produced clean, renewable energy, reduced my energy bills and provided significant tax revenue for the state, reducing my personal tax burden, I'd be thrilled.

Trust me. I see what you are saying, but again it is way too easy to take that stand when you don't live here. Further more, it is easy to say all of that when you have not witnessed first hand how terrible oil spills can effect shores. Yes, we have good technology. We also have good safety measures when they are enforced which is another concern of mine. However, if something should happen then how exactly do you plan to resolve the situation? I believe we have much more control over our Nuclear Plants than we do some oil rig out in the water.

That plus there is the concern that I expressed involving moving beyond our dependence for oil. Convincing me that we can drill safely is one thing. Convincing me that our country will be transformed before this problem arises again. That's something else.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Dari
Well, it has worked well for the Gulf states, I think we should let all states do as they please.

This is actually a point which deserves a good deal of attention from anyone wishing to make an educated decision. I would like to know the details regarding the history of their drilling. Specifically, I would be looking for the history of their accidents and long term effects on their shores.

Well, if you live in Florida, then they're your neighbor. Just ask.

I don't know anyone that lives there.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Dari
Well, it has worked well for the Gulf states, I think we should let all states do as they please.

This is actually a point which deserves a good deal of attention from anyone wishing to make an educated decision. I would like to know the details regarding the history of their drilling. Specifically, I would be looking for the history of their accidents and long term effects on their shores.

Well, if you live in Florida, then they're your neighbor. Just ask.

I don't know anyone that lives there.

They say no news is good news, right?

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Dari
Well, it has worked well for the Gulf states, I think we should let all states do as they please.

This is actually a point which deserves a good deal of attention from anyone wishing to make an educated decision. I would like to know the details regarding the history of their drilling. Specifically, I would be looking for the history of their accidents and long term effects on their shores.

The only negative environmental impact came not from the oil rigs but actually from the refineries on shore. I don't believe Florida would be building any oil refineries.

A positive environmental impact of the rigs is fishing. :laugh: You can find some of the best fishing in Texas and Louisiana near the rigs.

We have plenty of fish with or without the rigs here in Florida.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Dari
Well, it has worked well for the Gulf states, I think we should let all states do as they please.

This is actually a point which deserves a good deal of attention from anyone wishing to make an educated decision. I would like to know the details regarding the history of their drilling. Specifically, I would be looking for the history of their accidents and long term effects on their shores.

Well, if you live in Florida, then they're your neighbor. Just ask.

I don't know anyone that lives there.

They say no news is good news, right?

Give me break. This is far too important just to start making assumptions. I refuse to change my stance on this without the proper knowledge. To do otherwise is careless and irresponsible.

 

[yuppiejr]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: yuppiejr

Originally posted by: Queasy

Originally posted by: Vic
More election year pandering over an issue that will NOT be decided by the next President.

I'm luke-warm on this myself. It made sense to hoard our own reserves and buy foreign oil while oil was cheap. Now that it is no longer cheap, we should start developing more of our own sources. However, no amount of known reserves is going to get us off dependence on foreign oil. We will never be an oil producing nation, and always a oil consuming nation. So this would be a very short-term fix, at best, and would have little to no effect on global oil prices in and of itself.

I partially disagree with the last bit. I think a major increase in the production of oil from the United States would be a big shock to the system. Especially to the oil speculators who are betting on prices going higher and higher. ANWR would be an extra million+ barrels of oil a day. Off-shore oil fields could be more than that. It would also help strengthen the dollar as the oil money and jobs would be coming here instead of going overseas.

No, we will likely never be able to completely provide all of our oil needs but there is no reason for us to continue to move toward being 100% dependent on foreign oil either. We are producing less oil now than we were 30 years ago.

We still need to work on higher mpgs and other dependable sources of energy but there is no reason why we can't chew gum and walk at the same time.

Very well said, particularly the last 2 paragraphs.

Except that oil is much more than just an energy source. Look around you. You're literally bathed in it. When reserves really do start to get tight (which they inevitably will someday without some kind of change in policy), we're going to regret like hell that we burned so much of it. Especially when we don't have to. And I'm not talking about biofuels. If we just developed a better electric battery, we could get ourselves off foreign oil dependence almost overnight. And as we're already very close to that technology, IMO if we were actually serious about our talk, we'd put our money and our efforts where our mouths are.

While I believe your statement is well intended it is an example of the sort of idealism that leads to the INABILITY to innovate due to a lack of financial resources.

The above statement to which you responded and I agreed advocated short term increase in oil production to support US energy needs WHILE we invest in newer/alternative energy sources. As you noted in your last sentence, researching new energy technologies requires MONEY. If the US economy is tanking because energy costs are varying wildly there is less money in said economy to spend on alternative energy research how does that help anyone?

The benefits to all Americans of investing responsibly in alternative energy sources cannot be argued either from a cost or environmental stewardship perspective. The key is managing the investment and transition in a way that doesn't bankrupt the country in the process.

 

[yuppiejr]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Dari
Well, it has worked well for the Gulf states, I think we should let all states do as they please.

This is actually a point which deserves a good deal of attention from anyone wishing to make an educated decision. I would like to know the details regarding the history of their drilling. Specifically, I would be looking for the history of their accidents and long term effects on their shores.

Agreed with both points - I believe what McCain is advocating is simply removing FEDERAL restrictions on drilling opening the door for states to make their own decisions. It's up to Florida and the other effected states to decide if and how to approach this opportunity. I consider it a good move from both an energy supply standpoint and a great precedent from a "states rights" perspective.

 

[Dari]

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Dari

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Dari
Well, it has worked well for the Gulf states, I think we should let all states do as they please.

This is actually a point which deserves a good deal of attention from anyone wishing to make an educated decision. I would like to know the details regarding the history of their drilling. Specifically, I would be looking for the history of their accidents and long term effects on their shores.

Well, if you live in Florida, then they're your neighbor. Just ask.

I don't know anyone that lives there.

They say no news is good news, right?

Give me break. This is far too important just to start making assumptions. I refuse to change my stance on this without the proper knowledge. To do otherwise is careless and irresponsible.

Then get off your ass and hit the net or library. I'm sure there's a plethora of information regarding the oil industry in the Gulf. The only obvious downside is that the region is relatively poor. Now this could be because the leaders in that area became complacent since they had oil revenue or they just didn't have anything else to build up. I'm betting it's the former considering most other oil-producing nations don't have much else in the way of economics. That said, I doubt that a state like Florida would be willing to make such a trade-off. Hell, look at eastern Texas. It's part of one of the richest states in the nation but it's dirt poor.

 

[jamesall]

That is good McCain wants to lift ban on offshore drilling, but it won't pass congress or the environmental lobbyist.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: yuppiejr

Originally posted by: Xavier434

Originally posted by: Dari
Well, it has worked well for the Gulf states, I think we should let all states do as they please.

This is actually a point which deserves a good deal of attention from anyone wishing to make an educated decision. I would like to know the details regarding the history of their drilling. Specifically, I would be looking for the history of their accidents and long term effects on their shores.

Agreed with both points - I believe what McCain is advocating is simply removing FEDERAL restrictions on drilling opening the door for states to make their own decisions. It's up to Florida and the other effected states to decide if and how to approach this opportunity. I consider it a good move from both an energy supply standpoint and a great precedent from a "states rights" perspective.

To be honest, I don't want Christ making this decision and I doubt that you would want him calling the shots for it either if you lived here. He is quite awful.

 

[Xavier434]

Originally posted by: Dari

Then get off your ass and hit the net or library. I'm sure there's a plethora of information regarding the oil industry in the Gulf. The only obvious downside is that the region is relatively poor. Now this could be because the leaders in that area became complacent since they had oil revenue or they just didn't have anything else to build up. I'm betting it's the former considering most other oil-producing nations don't have much else in the way of economics. That said, I doubt that a state like Florida would be willing to make such a trade-off. Hell, look at eastern Texas. It's part of one of the richest states in the nation but it's dirt poor.

I am not willing to bet on that. Christ is just that bad. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he just started leaning on the oil drilling as a crutch instead of working towards attracting more tourists which Florida has always thrived upon and is steadily declining to achieve. I am worried that this state is going to become very poor if it doesn't change soon. Things just keep getting worse. More people are leaving than they are moving here.