Manhunt for cop killer in Los Angeles

[Zebo]

That's a whole different discussion. Seems to me that if I was him I would have bought a dozen or more cars/motorcycles/mopeds, etc and had them strategically placed around. I probably would have had a mock entourage too though and claimed I was LL Cool J.

If I were him there would be no manifesto till I was dead. Huge element of surprise lost with that braggart narcissistic screed. Then safe houses would be set up everywhere in corporate strip mall offices (where no one is after dark) in corporate names with offshore accounts rented by never appearing. Lay low snipe one every couple weeks..Plan abc escape routes etc etc etc. Like you say a endro dirt bike at each location as well. Travel is the biggest problem and But luckily Ca has Helmet laws making ID impossible visually not to mention no car can catch a bike..as least fast enough before you ditch it.

 

[BoberFett]

If I were him there would be no manifesto till I was dead. Huge element of surprise lost with that braggart narcissistic screed. Then safe houses would be set up everywhere in corporate strip mall offices (where no one is after dark) in corporate names with offshore accounts rented by never appearing. Lay low snipe one every couple weeks..Plan abc escape routes etc etc etc. Like you say a endro dirt bike at each location as well. Travel is the biggest problem and But luckily Ca has Helmet laws making ID impossible visually not to mention no car can catch a bike..as least fast enough before you ditch it.

Careful there Z, some idiot will tell you that you watch too many movies.

 

[randomrogue]

1. And let the perpetrator know everything? Where the police are, what they plan on doing, etc? What happened was standard procedure.

2. Yes, those cops should be arrested and punished.

3. They have the hostages of the first car and the owner of the second car that he jacked identify him. This same individual is also shooting/killing an officer and flees into the cabin. And there is no information that they didn't attempt to communicate with him. What should they have done with someone shooting at you to get additional information? Who cares, who he is at this point.

4. Why would they plant the wallet when forensics are going to be performed to confirm it was Dorner?

1. This wasn't the movie "heat". They surrounded the cabin and burned it to the ground. They didn't want anyone to see that.

3. During the press conferences they said they had made no communication with the suspect. They simply set a fire and were done with it.

4. I have no idea. It could be a false report.

 

[Arkaign]

Careful there Z, some idiot will tell you that you watch too many movies.

Hahaha yeah.

It's so true though, a truly intelligent person who wanted to create huge chaos and carnage could do so, so, so much more.

(1)- Ditch any personal electronics, and have a cache of prepaid phones bought in cash many months previously at random locations.

(2)- Have vehicles that are truly prepped for the desired capabilities. Rig up for example a couple of boxes full of large sharp jagged metal blades, say 3" chunks of metal welded together like jacks, that you can pull a cord from inside the car and have them pour out from under the trunk, instantly covering the road behind you with dozens of instant tire-poppers. Kevlar in the panels.

(3)- Rig up some hidden, cheap weapons that have servos attached that you can launch via internet script in the towns you are going to be working in. Suddenly dozens of rounds are being fired in a completely different part of the city, causing immense confusion and dilution of resources.

(4)- Rig up hidden explosives similar to above.

(5)- Rig up a full size remote control vehicle with tinted windows, hidden in the major metro area you're working in, that has a dummy in the seat, that you can use to distract the authorities if you need to change locations under a lot of heat.

(6)- Build a few quad-copters that carry 1 kilo of Semtex or C4 with dead-hand detonators.

(7)- Contingencies, contingencies, have many routes pre-planned, have multiple vehicles, dozens of weapons caches, identities, etc, planned.

(8)- Go to ground in a very well prepped location that you use only once, in which to wait while the departments waste tremendous resources in the search. Make sure this location has totally secret tunnels that lead in multiple directions, or ideally into a spidering sewer sytem with hundreds of exits.

etc.

 

[Farang]

Arkaign you have some good ideas. But I think most of your robotic stuff would fail and probably be clunky in real life. Example if a gun attached to some post starts firing that isn't going to create the same reaction as a man walking down the street with a gun.

Also many people have tried some of the things you talk about and still fail. A guy here in WA spent like 10 years building an underground bunker. One photo many years ago helped to track him down. He shot himself despite having a weapons cache.'

It seems the psychological shock of being chased down leads many people to abandon their plan or make mistakes. For example the Aurora killer told the cops he boobytrapped his apartment, which obviously defeats the purpose.

What most of these people seem to do wrong IMO is not set up multiple safe houses to hide out until the manhunt dies down. Think if you were in a one bedroom apartment someplace, ideally you got someone else to sign the lease etc., you can be holed up in there with food indefinitely. Stay 6 months then get out of town and out of country

 

[Arkaign]

Oh yeah, definitely not gun mounted to a post That would be spotted immediately. More like sneak it into a mall restroom by locking the restroom door, going into the roof area, and plant it up there. Make sure it's something fairly loud, and just the reports of muiltiple shots fired at a shopping mall would cause epic chaos.

Bunker without escape tunnels or such would be dumb as well. Space isn't so much important as it is multiple exits at undertermined points, with rigged explosives and distractions pre-set to give the ability to get out of there.

I simply think truly intelligent people usually tend not to be mass murderers either though Mentally deranged seems to be the rule.

 

[Zebo]

^ big problem with LA is radio moves at 400,000 miles per second and they have helicopters. So all those tire popping devices do you no good in a slow car. Ideally you want as little time on the street as possible so safe houses origins should be very close to mark. As a LEO he knew where they all lived so that should have been arranged.

 

[Zebo]

Arkaign you have some good ideas. But I think most of your robotic stuff would fail and probably be clunky in real life. Example if a gun attached to some post starts firing that isn't going to create the same reaction as a man walking down the street with a gun.

Also many people have tried some of the things you talk about and still fail. A guy here in WA spent like 10 years building an underground bunker. One photo many years ago helped to track him down. He shot himself despite having a weapons cache.'

It seems the psychological shock of being chased down leads many people to abandon their plan or make mistakes. For example the Aurora killer told the cops he boobytrapped his apartment, which obviously defeats the purpose.

What most of these people seem to do wrong IMO is not set up multiple safe houses to hide out until the manhunt dies down. Think if you were in a one bedroom apartment someplace, ideally you got someone else to sign the lease etc., you can be holed up in there with food indefinitely. Stay 6 months then get out of town and out of country

You're right about that. I would be terrified getting hunted by LAPD for even a parking ticket and everything may go to waste due to stress. But I sure wouldnt tell them who i was and my plans before stress even started.

That manifesto was a huge mistake.

 

[Farang]

Arkaign I think your overestimate the ability of a gun alone to induce terror. The sound of gunfire would certainly raise someone's attention but the screaming/911/terror is a result of them seeing a person firing it at people. Loud bangs from the ceiling of the restroom don't have nearly the same effect.

And whatever results you get from that, I think all the robotics are just too much effort for the effect. They could be used strategically at certain points (i.e. Dorner should have had a car waiting at a certain spot, intentionally crashed his truck. and then remotely set it on fire while he was already well away from it, somehow destroying the evidence that it was remotely detonated).

Most important and simple thing in my view is to have safehouses. Ideally you'd want 4-5 stocked with food but at the same time you wouldn't want too many, and wouldn't want it to be obviously stocked with food, because then one gets discovered and they realize you've created multiple safehouses in the area

The power of a safehouse is best shown by Dorner's having been a few hundred feet from the police command. Had that been a safe house he would've been set

 

[Generator]

Dorner played his hand as best as anyone could. If I was LAPD I would be disappointed with the kill. Burned body, all sorts of folklore could spawn off that. A fair trial even with a not guilty verdict would have been a just outcome for the police. In there desperate attempts to murder Dorner they've exposed themselves to all the worst criticisms and allegations because they are true.

 

[Arkaign]

Arkaign I think your overestimate the ability of a gun alone to induce terror. The sound of gunfire would certainly raise someone's attention but the screaming/911/terror is a result of them seeing a person firing it at people. Loud bangs from the ceiling of the restroom don't have nearly the same effect.

And whatever results you get from that, I think all the robotics are just too much effort for the effect. They could be used strategically at certain points (i.e. Dorner should have had a car waiting at a certain spot, intentionally crashed his truck. and then remotely set it on fire while he was already well away from it, somehow destroying the evidence that it was remotely detonated).

Most important and simple thing in my view is to have safehouses. Ideally you'd want 4-5 stocked with food but at the same time you wouldn't want too many, and wouldn't want it to be obviously stocked with food, because then one gets discovered and they realize you've created multiple safehouses in the area

The power of a safehouse is best shown by Dorner's having been a few hundred feet from the police command. Had that been a safe house he would've been set

Maybe I just didn't describe it clearly enough. It wouldn't just be the gun sitting right above the restroom doing nothing, but ceiling access would let you mount it at an angle to shoot through the roof across the food court for example. A bunch of rounds ripping through a busy food court would cause utter chaos, no person even being necessary to be seen firing the rounds, people would simply freak out.

The other robotics would be hugely helpful, in that you could cause the intended chaos without needing to be physically present to be identified or risk being apprehended/chased. Or also to gain distraction to throw off the authorities. And the quad copters with C4 or Semtex could destroy vehicles rather easily and cheaply. See a command truck somewhere? Fly the copter down to the roof and detonate. 1KG Semtex = no more command truck. Etc. Also the remote controlled full size vehicle could hold something in the range of 200KG semtex pretty easily, which if you drove it into a police station or facility would utterly destroy it.

I agree on the multiple safehouses, that's kind of a given as a starting point, along with the patience to wait out the most intensive phases of the search efforts.

 

[chimaxi83]

^ big problem with LA is radio moves at 400,000 miles per second and they have helicopters. So all those tire popping devices do you no good in a slow car. Ideally you want as little time on the street as possible so safe houses origins should be very close to mark. As a LEO he knew where they all lived so that should have been arranged.

Actually, 400,000 miles per second is faster than the speed of light, which is theoretically impossible. Radio travels at the same speed as light, which is ~186,000 miles per second (in a vacuum, anyway). Just wanted to throw that out there.

/smug

 

[Arkaign]

^ big problem with LA is radio moves at 400,000 miles per second and they have helicopters. So all those tire popping devices do you no good in a slow car. Ideally you want as little time on the street as possible so safe houses origins should be very close to mark. As a LEO he knew where they all lived so that should have been arranged.

That's true, it's not meant to make you invulnerable or anything stupid like that. But a helicopter has to respond to a call unless it's just randomly searching for an unknown target. So the tire popping devices could buy you a little time if a single unit 'makes' you, giving you time to ditch the vehicle quickly, swap off to a stashed vehicle, and off to the next safehouse.

If you're already in some massive chase with dozens of units and a heli already on you, it's game anyway. The whole idea is to not let it get to that point.

So if you were on the move, and somehow a single squad car lit you up, would you rather have the ability to instantly take them out of the game or not?

 

[klinc]

That's true, it's not meant to make you invulnerable or anything stupid like that. But a helicopter has to respond to a call unless it's just randomly searching for an unknown target. So the tire popping devices could buy you a little time if a single unit 'makes' you, giving you time to ditch the vehicle quickly, swap off to a stashed vehicle, and off to the next safehouse.

If you're already in some massive chase with dozens of units and a heli already on you, it's game anyway. The whole idea is to not let it get to that point.

So if you were on the move, and somehow a single squad car lit you up, would you rather have the ability to instantly take them out of the game or not?

Idea is to blend in and look like everyone else rather than standing out like a sore thumb

 

[BoberFett]

Those "tire poppers" are called caltrops and can be purchased.

 

[Arkaign]

Idea is to blend in and look like everyone else rather than standing out like a sore thumb

Yep. While driving away from the scene (in the most generic looking car possible), best bet would be not to speed much if at all, and just blend with the traffic to a covered garage for a vehicle swap.

 

[klinc]

Yep. While driving away from the scene (in the most generic looking car possible), best bet would be not to speed much if at all, and just blend with the traffic to a covered garage for a vehicle swap.

Get in a bus quicker

 

[Jaskalas]

Maybe he was human, and broke down with regret over killing the young woman.

You guys are thinking this over from a stable and thoughtful perspective... where you wouldn't break down in the middle of your actions.

 

[Farang]

Maybe he was human, and broke down with regret over killing the young woman.

You guys are thinking this over from a stable and thoughtful perspective... where you wouldn't break down in the middle of your actions.

I don't think so. He killed an officer his last day. Only (apparently) killed himself when the building was set on fire

 

[klinc]

Dorner played his hand as best as anyone could. If I was LAPD I would be disappointed with the kill. Burned body, all sorts of folklore could spawn off that. A fair trial even with a not guilty verdict would have been a just outcome for the police. In there desperate attempts to murder Dorner they've exposed themselves to all the worst criticisms and allegations because they are true.

Reminds me of Waico.
Day 1 it was Davidians 4 ATF 2

FBI join the party

Day 53 Davidians 0 FBI 76 1 Compound.

After 100 cover ups they said propane tank blew up.

They used Model 5 ProtectoJets which is basically steel cylinders containing CS dissolved in methylene chloride and pressurized with carbon dioxide which was mounted on a boom. The other they use was Ferret round which is CS dissolved in methylene. Place burned down.

Now another place burned down after bombing it with CS mmmm

 

[klinc]

Maybe he was human, and broke down with regret over killing the young woman.

You guys are thinking this over from a stable and thoughtful perspective... where you wouldn't break down in the middle of your actions.

I would also kill myself knowing that about 50 itchy trigger finger LA cops with riot shields and armed to the teeth looking for a kill, will be bursting through that door while I'm busy roasting in the living room

 

[SKORPI0]

CNN conference just started. ^_^

 

[Zebo]

Reminds me of Waico.
Day 1 it was Davidians 4 ATF 2

FBI join the party

Day 53 Davidians 0 FBI 76 1 Compound.

After 100 cover ups they said propane tank blew up.

They used Model 5 ProtectoJets which is basically steel cylinders containing CS dissolved in methylene chloride and pressurized with carbon dioxide which was mounted on a boom. The other they use was Ferret round which is CS dissolved in methylene. Place burned down.

Now another place burned down after bombing it with CS mmmm

Thats what amusing when people say oh the FBI needs to get into the LAPD.

Wont do a damn thing. They were there 10 years didnt do a thing.

We have a serious endemic problem in this country with govt vs citizens. We moved from a public servant citizen role to like a master subject one. Where citizens only use is to keep tier mouth shut and provide taxes for thier projects and pensions.

and the 4th branch of govt, media, is failing hard- simply sycophants these days.

 

[Jaskalas]

I don't think so. He killed an officer his last day. Only (apparently) killed himself when the building was set on fire

Just how did you manage to compare cold blooded murder to the situation with the officer? The innocent woman wasn't armed or trying to kill him.

I'll put this another way: Just because he was willing to defend himself, doesn't mean he wanted to continue being the aggressor.

 

[zanejohnson]

wow they just played the audio of the police saying go ahead with plan b, the burn... on ac360