Mandatory 2 Year Military Service after HS?

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: CitizenKain
If people want to join the military or peace corps, we already have those available for those who wish to join. Forcing people to join something they don't want to wouldn't accomplish anything. What do you do with someone who is forced into joining Peace Corps and they don't show up for the job, do you fire them and they continue on with their lives? Or do you throw them in prison, which accomplishes even less then someone clearing a trail?

Exactly. They're there if people want to get into them... forcing people is so anti-American, frankly I'm surprised at the amount of support the idea gets.

I really hate this one-size-fits-all mentality that's so prevailant. It's like a perverse egalitarianism where every is supposed to be sqeezed into the same mold, no matter their shape. It's alarming that some people are so quick to impose their own values onto everyone else in the form of coerced service... which is one step above slavery.

Let's face it, once you've subscribed to the idea that your life isn't really YOURS, but rather the "society's" (to use it as they see fit) we might as well burn the Declaration of Independence and Bill of Rights. Such an idea is more akin to a Nazi Germany, not a nation based freedom. Where is our principle of individualism these days?

 

[chcarnage]

Speaking as citizen of a country with mandatory military service. Normal soldiers have a recruit school service of 18-21 weeks and then yearly courses of 3 weeks 6 times. You can be forced to become corporal, which ads to your service time. Higher ranks factually are voluntary.

Pros:
[*]The risk that the military betrays the people is virtually zero because the people is the military.
[*]It's more fair because nobody joins the military just for economic reasons.
[*]The military members better represent the people. More rich persons, perhaps less gun nuts.
[*]It's possible to raise a big army.

Cons:
[*]It's not cheap.
[*]Even if the military members have different social backgrounds: It's an illusion that everybody participates. In Switzerland 50% finish the recruit school. The rest either are drop-outs, chose civil defense service, or wasn't fit for service for medical reasons. Medical reasons are an often used backdoor. Even Roger Federer, world class tennis player, wasn't fit for service due to "medical reasons"...
[*]Gender discrimination. Let's face it: You steal a year from male persons (or two in the scenario of the OP) and only a tiny fraction of females joins the military voluntarily. I don't know a single country with mandatory military service for female individuals.
[*]Mandatory military service means a sacrifice from each military member. The military only can be flexible to some extent and the service will axe the schedule of some individuals (p.e. delaying university entry).

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger

Originally posted by: tss4

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
It's an interesting idea, no doubt, but flies in the very face of our freedoms.

Starship Troopers is actually a very interesting book, as it actually explores this notion a great deal more than the fun, yet intellectually void, movie of the same title.

so it was a good book? Cause the movie kind of stank.

It's a Heinlein book, so you know it's pretty decent. The book focuses on morality, ethics, civic duty, etc, with a war against some bugs as the backdrop. The movie, of course, is about war against some bugs, with some (minor) touches of philosophy and politics in the far, far background. Pick up the book, it's pretty good.

Would you like to know more?

The movie is so different from the book, I don't know how they got away with using the same title.

It should be noted that Heinlein was adamantly opposed his entire life to any type of draft, mandatory or conscription service. The idea proposed in the book, Starship Troopers, was not a draft in any way, shape, or form.

 

[Zebo]

Yea his wife said "show me da money" with zero concern for staying true to her dead hubby whoring scripts out faster than Hollywood could make them. proly rolling in his grave.

 

[piasabird]

How does military training prohibit a person's Mental Development?

Here is what happened when I was in the military:

I had the opportunity to bunk in a barracks with guys from all over the country and was exposed to different cultures. I am a white guy and at two different times I bunked with African Americans. The Army was like a utopean environment where people learn to work together and everyone is truly given an equal opportunity to succeed. Most civilians dont understand this kind of true sense of commeroderry (Spell).

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: Cuda1447
NO.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Chunkee
Think we should have mandatory military service for 2 years after school?

I'd have no problem with mandatory civil service, but I don't want my kids shipped around the world on yet another version of Dick and Dubya's Excellent Adventure.

But if the elite of this country had a chance of having their children put in harms way, they would think twice about authorizing any military action, let alone sending them into a bee's nest like Iraq for no good reason.

I think it should be a draft and be 3 years, due to cost of training. Mandatory service for everybody would just be too many people, wouldn't it?

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Chunkee
Think we should have mandatory military service for 2 years after school?

I'd have no problem with mandatory civil service, but I don't want my kids shipped around the world on yet another version of Dick and Dubya's Excellent Adventure.

But if the elite of this country had a chance of having their children put in harms way, they would think twice about authorizing any military action, let alone sending them into a bee's nest like Iraq for no good reason.

I think it should be a draft and be 3 years, due to cost of training. Mandatory service for everybody would just be too many people, wouldn't it?

Wouldn't matter... the elite would just buy their way out of service like they did in Vietnam. Look at our chimp in chief...

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: piasabird
How does military training prohibit a person's Mental Development?

Here is what happened when I was in the military:

I had the opportunity to bunk in a barracks with guys from all over the country and was exposed to different cultures. I am a white guy and at two different times I bunked with African Americans. The Army was like a utopean environment where people learn to work together and everyone is truly given an equal opportunity to succeed. Most civilians dont understand this kind of true sense of commeroderry (Spell).

It certainly doesn't develop a proper scientific, medical, or whatever mindset. I've always said that a scientist is much more valuable to this country than a soldier. There's no use in forcing a good mind in becoming some sort of soldier if he or she doesn't wish it so.

 

[Train]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: piasabird
How does military training prohibit a person's Mental Development?

Here is what happened when I was in the military:

I had the opportunity to bunk in a barracks with guys from all over the country and was exposed to different cultures. I am a white guy and at two different times I bunked with African Americans. The Army was like a utopean environment where people learn to work together and everyone is truly given an equal opportunity to succeed. Most civilians dont understand this kind of true sense of commeroderry (Spell).

It certainly doesn't develop a proper scientific, medical, or whatever mindset. I've always said that a scientist is much more valuable to this country than a soldier. There's no use in forcing a good mind in becoming some sort of soldier if he or she doesn't wish it so.

Soldiers cant be scientists? Thats an ignorant statement. People in the military handle higher technology every day than civilians will ever get to touch. Nuclear subs, spy satelites, stealth, 4th gen night vision, etc. And werent a majority of the Apollo astronauts prior military? I know Neil Armstrong was an Airforce pilot. In fact I seem to remeber theres a Marine that won a nobel prize, I will have to look it up.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Train

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: piasabird
How does military training prohibit a person's Mental Development?

Here is what happened when I was in the military:

I had the opportunity to bunk in a barracks with guys from all over the country and was exposed to different cultures. I am a white guy and at two different times I bunked with African Americans. The Army was like a utopean environment where people learn to work together and everyone is truly given an equal opportunity to succeed. Most civilians dont understand this kind of true sense of commeroderry (Spell).

It certainly doesn't develop a proper scientific, medical, or whatever mindset. I've always said that a scientist is much more valuable to this country than a soldier. There's no use in forcing a good mind in becoming some sort of soldier if he or she doesn't wish it so.

Soldiers cant be scientists? Thats an ignorant statement. People in the military handle higher technology every day than civilians will ever get to touch. Nuclear subs, spy satelites, stealth, 4th gen night vision, etc. And werent a majority of the Apollo astronauts prior military? I know Neil Armstrong was an Airforce pilot. In fact I seem to remeber theres a Marine that won a nobel prize, I will have to look it up.

I didn't say that. Stop making up arguments.

I'm saying that spending two years in being a soldier wastes two years of scientific knowledge and practice for an individual that could be better utilized in cultivating scientific theory and thought..

By the way, 'handling higher technology' is not what I am referring to as that is not any real sort of scientific, medical, or engineering development. That is more of a technician or user of a device designed by the scientists and engineers that I am speaking about.

 

[2cpuminimum]

I suggest that the children of people in congress and the children of the commander in chief should immediately be drafted upon election of those individuals, for a term of six years, and with mandatory combat zone placement for at least three years if there is an active combat zone after their first year of training.

No one else should be subjected to a draft however.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: 2cpuminimum
I suggest that the children of people in congress and the children of the commander in chief should immediately be drafted upon election of those individuals, for a term of six years, and with mandatory combat zone placement for at least three years if there is an active combat zone after their first year of training.

No one else should be subjected to a draft however.

Why would you punish their children? That makes no sense. Instead, draft the people in congress themselves.

 

[Dissipate]

Compulsory service to the state?! Over my dead body.

 

[Mardeth]

We have mandatory military service here in Finland althought its only 6-12 months. Kind of funny how we have the biggest army in the EU if you look at the number of soldiers we have...

EDIT: I havent done mine yet, needs to be done before your 29. Obviously people with physical and mental problems either dont need to or have a easier military service.

 

[Zebo]

Finland = Badasses!

You guys want some fun inspireing reading? Check out Finlands Winter War and the Continuation War and see what I'm talking about.

 

[Busithoth]

Originally posted by: tss4

Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
It's an interesting idea, no doubt, but flies in the very face of our freedoms.

Starship Troopers is actually a very interesting book, as it actually explores this notion a great deal more than the fun, yet intellectually void, movie of the same title.

so it was a good book? Cause the movie kind of stank.

If they had changed the name of the movie, you'd probably never guess one was based on the other. Really.

But 2 years mandatory service after what school?
I'm all for a more attractive voluntary service, which would pay for 2 years (4?) of college.
But not only military, (i.e., Peace Corps, Habitat for Humanity, etc. with varying benefits for whatever choice you make)

Israel's model shouldn't be emulated, as much as I admire their gender-neutral service requirement.

 

[Red Dawn]

Not with somebody like the Dub as President who has shown a willingness to use our soldiers as pawns for his fscked up Foreign Policy.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Chunkee
Think we should have mandatory military service for 2 years after school?

I'd have no problem with mandatory civil service, but I don't want my kids shipped around the world on yet another version of Dick and Dubya's Excellent Adventure.

It would be hard to make the ridiculous claim that you have an 'all volunteer army' and therefore they must have chosen to go to Iraq... hmm.

 

[Red Dawn]

Start the draft up again and you'll see more incidents of officers getting fragged in the Sh!tter. We don't need people in the Army that don't want to be in the Army because you'll end up with a bunch of malcontents like those who would kill their Superior Officers instead of following them into battle.

 

[Mickey Eye]

There is a mandatory 14 month service here in Norway, however they also allow you the option of "civil" service. This can be anything from teaching at a kindergarten to working for a charity abroad. It's not a terrible idea and it certainly teaches responsibilty. I do know people who have managed to get out of it, as it pays next to nothing and they'ed rather do something to help their own pockets.

 

[slyedog]

quoted by zebo:
BTW as cold war supporter and US Navy veteran I can tesitify the dumbest people I have ever encountered was in the military. Many could'nt even make thier bed or knew personel hygene until the military taught them
.................................................................................................................................and that is the best reason to have everyone serve two years in the military after school. get them away from their Mommy and teach them the basics of life.after that they can resume their education or whatever they want to do. it worked for me.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: slyedog
quoted by zebo:
BTW as cold war supporter and US Navy veteran I can tesitify the dumbest people I have ever encountered was in the military. Many could'nt even make thier bed or knew personel hygene until the military taught them
.................................................................................................................................and that is the best reason to have everyone serve two years in the military after school. get them away from their Mommy and teach them the basics of life.after that they can resume their education or whatever they want to do. it worked for me.

I agree (a good reason) but it's pretty anti-american since we value choices and liberty over your own life. Besides wars arn't like the old days with feilding a million troops, if it comes to that we're dropping a nuke on ya, so what do we do and how do we afford 5-6+ million enlisted personel?

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: slyedog
quoted by zebo:
BTW as cold war supporter and US Navy veteran I can tesitify the dumbest people I have ever encountered was in the military. Many could'nt even make thier bed or knew personel hygene until the military taught them
.................................................................................................................................and that is the best reason to have everyone serve two years in the military after school. get them away from their Mommy and teach them the basics of life.after that they can resume their education or whatever they want to do. it worked for me.

Ah yes, the old gem "it worked for me, so everyone should be forced to do it". My religion works for me, so it should be the mandatory national religion. My career field is great for me, so everyone should do what I do. My choice of car is perfect for me, we'd all be better off if everyone drove the same thing.

Seriously, what the hell is wrong with you guys? I've never agreed with cwjerome more than I do in this thread. Is this still America or what?

 

[phantom309]

Personally I would have benefitted a lot from a stint in the military. It's something I really regret not doing - though I probably wouldn't have passed the physical in any case.

But to force everyone to do it is un-American and logistically impossible anyway.