Make a mistake at a game of Simon Says? You get killed.

[ivwshane]

OK. What's the point of even asking then? If he had told the truth, the officer would have proceeded differently. He would have expected diminished coordination / concentration / comprehension. Instead of making assumptions, he asked. Lying means he's partially responsible for setting incorrect expectations.

The purpose of asking is to obtain verbal and physical clues as to the state of mind the person is in. Is their speech slurred? Are they already in an agitated state? Are they panicked? Are they coherent? Etc.

 

[Ichinisan]

The worst outcome is a cop killing someone who shouldnt be killed. The second worst outcome is a cop dying because they were slow to react.

you have these backwards.

He bears much of the responsibility for his death. When a public servant is killed, it discourages others from being public servants or putting themselves in dangerous situations for our protection.

 

[JSt0rm]

police have been allowed to police themselves for too long. Its going to take 30 years to change but it will change. Id rather have drones on these streets then police. When automated cars come into the picture and this revenue stream for cops dries up we will see less police and we should be focused on automating most police interactions.

 

[Ichinisan]

The last cop to be killed in mesa az was in 1913. They chose to be police. We chose to be citizens. Citizens shouldn't be put in danger because cops want less risk. soldiers operating in iraq had more strict rules of engagement then us police officers.

So we'll relax procedures to ensure that more of them die. We have to reach a minimum quota of cop deaths! That's how we'll decide the procedures instead of minimizing risk using logic and analysis.

 

[JSt0rm]

He bears much of the responsibility for his death. When a public servant being killed, it discourages others from being public servants or putting themselves in dangerous situations for our protection.

Nobody goes through how to survive an encounter with police training. I assume police are given much training on how to defuse situations and not kill innocents. The difference is one is a profession and the other is just a average iq guy living his life.


Are you a cop?

 

[JSt0rm]

So we'll relax procedures to ensure that more of them die. We have to reach a minimum quota of cop deaths!

what if by training them not to use force first less of them died?

 

[JSt0rm]

you make a lot of assumptions based on your fear of cop death.

 

[UNCjigga]

Yeah, but he really wanted to break in his personal AR, the one that had "You're Fucked" inscribed on it

I still don't understand why the jury wasn't allowed to hear that inscription.

 

[Maxima1]

He bears much of the responsibility for his death. When a public servant is killed, it discourages others from being public servants or putting themselves in dangerous situations for our protection.

He was pulling his shorts up. It reminds me of the Castile incident where the cop tells the guy to get his wallet and then shoots when he tried to get it.

This cop had an idiotic mindset that any mistake on Simon says means death. What's even sadder is there were others around him, yet this cop was still so afraid of this guy who was sobbing and begging for his life to be spared. The likelihood this guy would have pulled out a pistol and killed all the cops was basically ZERO.

 

[Ichinisan]

Nobody goes through how to survive an encounter with police training. I assume police are given much training on how to defuse situations and not kill innocents. The difference is one is a profession and the other is just a average iq guy living his life.


Are you a cop?

Not a cop. I've never known a cop or worked with one.

I was mistreated and falsely arrested by a cop a long time ago, but I understand that he doesn't represent all cops.

I am not a gun owner and I've never derived any sense of fun or entertainment from shooting them. I did go through a gun safety course at a local police station along with my mother. I got to use their video projection training simulator with real guns and CO2 pressurized bullets. It's nerve wracking to avoid shooting innocents and not get shot by the gun wielding baddies. Like real life, it's not clear who is who. You have to be incredibly cautious. You have to yell the correct orders out. When the subject reaches for the waist without complying after being told to keep hands up/visible, that's when you're supposed to shoot. If you don't, you're dead.

That's what they're taught. They're taught that for a reason.

 

[Maxima1]

I still don't understand why the jury wasn't allowed to hear that inscription.

Despite some things being arguably relevant, they can be too prejudicial.

 

[pmv]

So we'll relax procedures to ensure that more of them die. We have to reach a minimum quota of cop deaths! That's how we'll decide the procedures instead of minimizing risk using logic and analysis.

I guess you think we have to reach a minimum quota of innocent civilian deaths, eh? You favour doing it that way round?

 

[pmv]

He didn't have to "learn" anything. The consequences were spelled out loudly and clearly to deter any dangerous resistance. Lying about his impairment directly contributed to his death.


Good cops should let someone shoot them. Got it.

You like living in a country where cops can shoot you for the most absurd of reasons? Got it.

 

[Ichinisan]

I guess you think we have to reach a minimum quota of innocent civilian deaths, eh? You favour doing it that way round?

"Innocent" or "largely responsible?"

 

[JSt0rm]

"Innocent" or "largely responsible?"

in 2016 50 people were shot by az police.

 

[Ichinisan]

in 2016 50 people were shot by az police.

All 100% innocent? All complying and answering questions honestly?

Would you be opposed to selecting an instance AT RANDOM and analyzing the circumstances?

 

[Ichinisan]

Double post

 

[JSt0rm]

All 100% innocent? All complying and answering questions honestly?

Would you be opposed to selecting an instance AT RANDOM and analyzing the circumstances?

Its not a cops job to enact a sentence of death on guilty people. So you have already framed the question in a discouraging way.

 

[JSt0rm]

the fact is a citizens life is worth more then a cops life. Yet cops seem to think their live are worth more then a citizens. They chose a risky profession. A citizen did not choose to interact with a gun wielding average iq psychopath poorly trained by the state.

 

[Ichinisan]

Its not a cops job to enact a sentence of death on guilty people. So you have already framed the question in a discouraging way.

You assume these 50 or so were not shot to protect and defend others and themselves? Nice assumption. We should randomly select and review the circumstances of one.

 

[Ichinisan]

the fact is a citizens life is worth more then a cops life. Yet cops seem to think their live are worth more then a citizens. They chose a risky profession. A citizen did not choose to interact with a gun wielding average iq psychopath poorly trained by the state.

Sure. Nice generalization. A person that is charged to routinely put himself or herself in dangerous situations to protect the public, or a random citizen? I know LOTS of worthless shitheads. I don't know any cops, but I can tell you a lot of people are of no value whatsoever. To generalize and say the life of any random citizen is more important than the few who use their lives to protect all citizens...wow. That would discourage anyone from bothering to serve the public or put themselves in harm's way.

 

[JSt0rm]

Sure. Nice generalization. A person that is charged to routinely put himself or herself in dangerous situations to protect the public, or a random citizen? I know LOTS of worthless shitheads. I don't know any cops, but I can tell you a lot of people are of no value whatsoever. To generalize and say the life of any random citizen is more important than the few who use their lives to protect all citizens...wow. That would discourage anyone from bothering to serve the public or put themselves in harm's way.

Well, aren't you a little fascist. At least we now know where you are coming from.

 

[pmv]

He bears much of the responsibility for his death. When a public servant is killed, it discourages others from being public servants or putting themselves in dangerous situations for our protection.

This sort of victim-blaming seems to crop up across a whole range of topics, and it seems to me the psychological cause is the same in all of them.

People don't like to consider themselves to be vulnerable, they want to believe they are masters of their own destiny in all contexts. So if someone suffers badly at someone else's hands, the first thing such an anxious person is going to do is examine every last detail of everything the victim did, in order to find something they can point to as something they did 'wrong'. Then by convincing themselves that they would never do that wrong thing, the anxiety that goes with vulnerability is staved-off and they can feel safe and fully-autonomous again. They don't have to consider the possibility that those with power might not have their best interests at heart.

If and when one day it goes wrong for such an individual, you can bet all their like-thinkers will immediately turn on them and in turn find something _they_ did wrong, demonstrating that despite their previous insistence, they weren't infallible _enough_ after all, thus allowing the rest of the clan to go on feeling powerful.

 

[bshole]

Sure. Nice generalization. A person that is charged to routinely put himself or herself in dangerous situations to protect the public, or a random citizen? I know LOTS of worthless shitheads. I don't know any cops, but I can tell you a lot of people are of no value whatsoever. To generalize and say the life of any random citizen is more important than the few who use their lives to protect all citizens...wow. That would discourage anyone from bothering to serve the public or put themselves in harm's way.

Is this cop functionally retarded? Seriously, the guy is laying there with his hands flat on the ground and the cop asks him to crawl instead of waling up and cuffing him? That makes no kind of fucking sense. The best part of this cop ran down his mothers leg.

My nephew joined the Milwaukee Police Force a little over a year ago. He had the night shift in the worst part of Milwaukee. He got called out to active service in the Middle East about a month ago and he said he was happy to go. He said he had seen some pretty fucked up shit. The job of a cop is extremely stressful, there is a solid reason for their high suicide rate.

Given all that, competence and judgement should be mandatory. This dimwit was not within a country mile of either. I would have at the very least convicted him of manslaughter.

 

[Maxima1]

Is this cop functionally retarded? Seriously, the guy is laying there with his hands flat on the ground and the cop asks him to crawl instead of waling up and cuffing him? That makes no kind of fucking sense. The best part of this cop ran down his mothers leg.

They hadn't secured the room, so they didn't want to go near it.