Maine Shooting dozens dead or injured.

[repoman0]

People who have unconscious feelings of inferiority can't help but feel condescension all around them. They think people can see what they feel. The ones who really do see don't have a need to make you feel worse than you already do.

Blah blah blah, 71000 posts saying exactly the same tiresome thing. Back to skipping over them.

 

[Indus]

Blah blah blah, 71000 posts saying exactly the same tiresome thing. Back to skipping over them.

Yeah if he didn't start the GA thread, I'd skip him everytime too.

Makes me miss @sportage s walls of text.. at least they were entertaining!

 

[Zorba]

And I'd put a fiver on fixing mental health before gun control in today's America. Maybe after some mental health work, we can take care of guns, but the cart comes before the horse.

Tell us how you might actually go about "fixing mental health" in the US. Can you point to any societies that have cured mental health? Can you point to any society ever that didn't have arguments, theft, and auditory? (all things that lead to murder)

 

[Zorba]

At issue is the unconsciously asserted arrogance of your opinion. You make the assumption that you know what mental health would look like in the population and how it could be achieved, that nothing realistic would change. In fact you know nothing. You have an opinion. I know that I do not know all the answers. What I do know is that truth is a way of seeling and you are not seeing from that point of view. If the truth were easy everybody would know it.

I know that nations without easy access to guns don't have mass murders daily. I also know no nation has eliminated mental health issues. You are offering philosophy from a bong, not any type of evidence based solution.

All the "least fix mental health" stuff is a bullshit narrative to distract from actual solutions, that have an actual proven track record.

 

[HomerJS]

That's an interesting statement in that it implies that individual shootings don't count.
It was mentioned earlier in the thread that someone would bring up Chicago, so I'll go ahead and do that now. Roughly seven people are shot in Chicago every day, but it's never reported as a mass shooting, it's never reported nationally at all as far as I know. Why is that? Why is it that continuous random shootings are just a part of life but mass shootings capture the attention of the nation? One is a horrific crime that congress needs to address, and the other is business as usual. To me they're all a national disaster, be it seven a day or 20 all at once.

I said that. Should have taken the under. You are quick to point to something else to avoid the subject of mass shootings. A few points.

The implication of always bringing up Chicago is to imply nobody cares about gun violence there. Nothing could be further from the truth. Did you know more than half of guns confiscated in Chicago come from out of state. States with lax gun laws so that destroys the talking point gun regulations don’t matter.

Republicans love pointing the finger to brown people committing crime. They were all hot and bothered about Muslim terrorism during 9/11. Pubs try to gaslight the public by claiming sleeper cells are coming across the southern border and there is no evidence to support. They so want an undocumented to commit a violent crime to get a talking point against Democrats. Remember how they went 24x7 when a white girl in California was killed by an undocumented? Meanwhile right wing white nationalists are the #1 domestic terror threat and Pubs want to do NOTHING.

Democrats want to slow the proliferation of guns. Pubs want more guns and they resort to their usual tropes.

 

[woolfe9998]

I said that. Should have taken the under. You are quick to point to something else to avoid the subject of mass shootings. A few points.

The implication of always bringing up Chicago is to imply nobody cares about gun violence there. Nothing could be further from the truth. Did you know more than half of guns confiscated in Chicago come from out of state. States with lax gun laws so that destroys the talking point gun regulations don’t matter.

Republicans love pointing the finger to brown people committing crime. They were all hot and bothered about Muslim terrorism during 9/11. Pubs try to gaslight the public by claiming sleeper cells are coming across the southern border and there is no evidence to support. They so want an undocumented to commit a violent crime to get a talking point against Democrats. Remember how they went 24x7 when a white girl in California was killed by an undocumented? Meanwhile right wing white nationalists are the #1 domestic terror threat and Pubs want to do NOTHING.

Democrats want to slow the proliferation of guns. Pubs want more guns and they resort to their usual tropes.

Yeah, the stupid thing about that particular bit of poisonous rhetoric is that the killing was accidental. He was reckless in firing the gun in public but he fired at the ground and the bullet ricocheted. And on the basis of that incident, we were suppose to conclude what exactly about the 10 million or so undocumenteds we have here? That's the problem with using anecdotes to prove a point about pretty much anything, even if the anecdotes are better than the one Trump was pushing.

 

[Sunburn74]

These aren't cigarettes though. There's so much public sentiment and identity attached to firearms, any of the above is just going to bolster support for Republicans due to 50 years of drumbeats. This situation is so fucked you have to start with kids, aiming at when they become adults. It might happen on it's own given that they're having first hand experience with it, but I worry trauma will lead just as many to greater levels of violence as it will lead to calls for him bans.

I would have said the same thing about abortion and voting rights. "It'll never happen, its way too popular, it'll give the country 50 years of democratic rule, etc etc." At the end of the day people just kind of shrug and move on.

I think if guns were suddenly banned in like half the states, you'd hear complaints for about 6 months and then people would just kind of move on.

Also I read that there is a kid who who shot in that bowling alley (and survived long enough to make it to the hospital for surgery) who a few years earlier witnessed his father being shot to death in a parking lot fight. Now he's been shot and is fighting for his life. What kind of crazy country are we building here...

 

[trenchfoot]

I would have said the same thing about abortion and voting rights. "It'll never happen, its way too popular, it'll give the country 50 years of democratic rule, etc etc." At the end of the day people just kind of shrug and move on.

I think if guns were suddenly banned in like half the states, you'd hear complaints for about 6 months and then people would just kind of move on.

Also I read that there is a kid who who shot in that bowling alley (and survived long enough to make it to the hospital for surgery) who a few years earlier witnessed his father being shot to death in a parking lot fight. Now he's been shot and is fighting for his life. What kind of crazy country are we building here...

It's being dismantled by the GOP as I'm typing this because they realize their days of being in charge through propagandizing the masses and gerrymandering their way to victories are being overwhelmed by the change in political demographics that favor the growing number of working class liberals who can clearly see and think for themselves. That right there makes them independent minded and that is what the folks who are currently running the shadow gov't that bought their way into control is in abject fear of: Citizens who want a gov't that represents their interests instead of those of the big corporates and mega-wealthy donors that own and operate their stooges in all three branches of gov't.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Maine Rep. Jared Golden says mass shooting changed his mind on assault weapons ban

Rep. Jared Golden, who lives in Lewiston, Maine, said that in light of the recent mass shooting in his town he was changing his view on banning assault-style weapons

abcnews.go.com

Good for him for having the courage to change his stance, shameful that it takes direct effect to make it happen

 

[Moonbeam]

I know that nations without easy access to guns don't have mass murders daily. I also know no nation has eliminated mental health issues. You are offering philosophy from a bong, not any type of evidence based solution.

All the "least fix mental health" stuff is a bullshit narrative to distract from actual solutions, that have an actual proven track record.

I know that the political obstacles to

I know that nations without easy access to guns don't have mass murders daily. I also know no nation has eliminated mental health issues. You are offering philosophy from a bong, not any type of evidence based solution.

All the "least fix mental health" stuff is a bullshit narrative to distract from actual solutions, that have an actual proven track record.

Do you support the disarming of the military and the police? Wouldn’t there be a lot lest weapons deaths if the US did that? Or do you believe that despite all the wars we have, if we unilaterally disarm, all of us would would likely be killed by foreign invaders. So if by chance you are fine with guns in the hands of of those who protect you from the violence of others, why would you want to take that same potential ability from me as an army of one.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I know that the political obstacles to

Do you support the disarming of the military and the police? Wouldn’t there be a lot lest weapons deaths if the US did that? Or do you believe that despite all the wars we have, if we unilaterally disarm, all of us would would likely be killed by foreign invaders. So if by chance you are fine with guns in the hands of of those who protect you from the violence of others, why would you want to take that same potential ability from me as an army of one.

Great point, every single citizen that wants to own a firearm should be required to join the reserves, check in monthly, maintain mental and physical health, and be disarmed if the military deems you unfit. You nailed it.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

I would have said the same thing about abortion and voting rights. "It'll never happen, its way too popular, it'll give the country 50 years of democratic rule, etc etc." At the end of the day people just kind of shrug and move on.

I think if guns were suddenly banned in like half the states, you'd hear complaints for about 6 months and then people would just kind of move on.

Abortion and voting rights are things Democrats care about, and Democrats don't resort to domestic terrorism when they don't get what they want (or at least they haven't yet).

 

[ch33zw1z]

I would have said the same thing about abortion and voting rights. "It'll never happen, its way too popular, it'll give the country 50 years of democratic rule, etc etc." At the end of the day people just kind of shrug and move on.

I think if guns were suddenly banned in like half the states, you'd hear complaints for about 6 months and then people would just kind of move on.

Also I read that there is a kid who who shot in that bowling alley (and survived long enough to make it to the hospital for surgery) who a few years earlier witnessed his father being shot to death in a parking lot fight. Now he's been shot and is fighting for his life. What kind of crazy country are we building here...

It seems we've built a country where rugged individualism makes people think they're John Wayne....and when they realize they're not, some of them lose their shit.

 

[HomerJS]

Moonie,

I know you’ve given many reasons for this countries gun problem. Can you tell us just one of those reasons that doesn’t exist and any other first world country?

Video games… everywhere
Violence in movies…everywhere
Disaffected males…everywhere
Self hate…everywhere
Mental illness…everywhere
Social media…everywhere

Which one of your reasons doesn’t exist in countries like

England
Canada
France
Spain
Austrailia

 

[ch33zw1z]

Moonie,

I know you’ve given many reasons for this countries gun problem. Can you tell us just one of those reasons that doesn’t exist and any other first world country?

Video games… everywhere
Violence in movies…everywhere
Disaffected males…everywhere
Self hate…everywhere
Mental illness…everywhere
Social media…everywhere

Which one of your reasons doesn’t exist in countries like

England
Canada
France
Spain
Austrailia

Dude sees himself as an army of one, said it himself. You’re not dealing with reason.

 

[Paratus]

Found this today. Thought it was pertinent to the conversation. Also might save some of you the time typing a response to Moonbeam.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Plan an escape!

I have.. and I plan to move as soon as I'm 50, because at 50 you qualify for retirement visa's in a lot of countries and you take your pick.

I am completely serious; I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter. I have done some expat homework but there are so many places I have never visited to consider. So many different pros and cons. For myself, even climate change is a factor. Otis just slammed Mexico; it turned into a monster with historic alacrity. Higher on that coast was one of the places I was eyeing that has a big U.S. expat community because hablo muy Poco español. I expect the clean up and infrastructure rebuilding is not as efficient or fast as here in Fl. Don't want to go from the frying pan to the fire.

If you narrow down your search, let me know, please and thank you.

On topic: I don't have anything to add I haven't written in the past. I.E. We need much tougher gun laws. Bans on capacity and weapon type. Mandatory training. Mental health evaluations. The process of qualifying to own a firearm should be expensive for the purchaser. Hell, even something as mundane as COMPTIA and EMS certifications require regular recertification. Charge the owners fees to cover everything, and require mandatory training and evaluations every 3yrs. Even hunters; no exceptions.

Or we continue are descent into the Robocop dystopia.

HURR DURR! Makin' guns illegal means only criminals will them! HERP DERP!

No you vast morons, only the ones that are banned. Can't afford or pass the requirements for ownership? Too fucking bad. As beyond you as it is to understand; that's how civilized societies work. Certain constraints are placed upon all of the members for the collective good.

 

[Stokely]

I get a real kick out of right wingers saying the problem isn't guns, it's mental illness.

So we, the bastion of Christianity and FREEDOM in an increasingly secular world are more mentally ill than any other developed country, check.

The fact that we are the only developed country with more guns than citizens has absolutely nothing to do with it.

--and to be fair, mental illness IS a problem and deserves a ton more attention and funding. Which is rich hearing it coming from the party that doesn't believe in the government spending money on things not military (it's Socialism!!) These people will say anything to defend their right to own their toys.

Unfortunately I think there are enough independents and potential Democrat voters who are gun nuts (I know several) to torpedo any politician who tries to do anything meaningful, unlike abortion and other Christian wackery. I'd love to be wrong about that, but I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that the USA will continue to be some kind of outlier "control group" in this grand global experiment. Think of the favor we are doing the rest of the world, we are doing the hard work of showing what ubiquitous ownership of military-style weaponry does so they don't have to.

As far as moving--my wife and I have discussed it. The gun nuttery is only one brick in the wall, I'm very worried about the rise in theocratic zealotry. I may not be desired anywhere else at my age and skills, but I'm really hoping my kids strongly consider getting the hell out if things continue to slide.

 

[Paratus]

I know that the political obstacles to

Do you support the disarming of the military and the police? Wouldn’t there be a lot lest weapons deaths if the US did that? Or do you believe that despite all the wars we have, if we unilaterally disarm, all of us would would likely be killed by foreign invaders. So if by chance you are fine with guns in the hands of of those who protect you from the violence of others, why would you want to take that same potential ability from me as an army of one.

“You must be nuts. You can't deal with the fears caused by your CBD and you expect mothers to get over their fear their kids will be shot. You are pretty naïve. But you will never know it.”

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Moonie,

I know you’ve given many reasons for this countries gun problem. Can you tell us just one of those reasons that doesn’t exist and any other first world country?

Video games… everywhere
Violence in movies…everywhere
Disaffected males…everywhere
Self hate…everywhere
Mental illness…everywhere
Social media…everywhere

Which one of your reasons doesn’t exist in countries like

England
Canada
France
Spain
Australia

I saw a fantastic meme about the history of Tennis for Two. The caption read - Violent behavior is invented (colorized)

 

[Pens1566]

Yet again:

Onion, always valid

 

[Greenman]

I said that. Should have taken the under. You are quick to point to something else to avoid the subject of mass shootings. A few points.

The implication of always bringing up Chicago is to imply nobody cares about gun violence there. Nothing could be further from the truth. Did you know more than half of guns confiscated in Chicago come from out of state. States with lax gun laws so that destroys the talking point gun regulations don’t matter.

Republicans love pointing the finger to brown people committing crime. They were all hot and bothered about Muslim terrorism during 9/11. Pubs try to gaslight the public by claiming sleeper cells are coming across the southern border and there is no evidence to support. They so want an undocumented to commit a violent crime to get a talking point against Democrats. Remember how they went 24x7 when a white girl in California was killed by an undocumented? Meanwhile right wing white nationalists are the #1 domestic terror threat and Pubs want to do NOTHING.

Democrats want to slow the proliferation of guns. Pubs want more guns and they resort to their usual tropes.

I didn't avoid the subject of mass shootings, I simply noted that Chicago has a mass shooting pretty much every day. The point being that one is a tragedy that congress needs to act on and the other is business as usual.
I don't care what the republican's did or didn't do, I'm addressing the reality we live in right now. So the democrats want to reduce the number of guns sold, what will that do? There is already more than one gun for every man woman and child in the country. I think we're past the point of gun control and well into "what do we do now?". We could ban all firearms and every honest law abiding resident of the nation will turn theirs in. The stupid, criminals, and extremists will keep them. That doesn't seem like a good answer to me. It also doesn't address the issue of firearms smuggled into the country.

I don't know the answers, I probably don't even grasp the entirety of the problem, but the way I see it, the horses, cows, sheep, and pigs have all run off and we're locked into a battle over what size barn door to build. It's great political theater, and allows everyone on either side to think they're fighting the good fight, but it will never reach a conclusion.

 

[pete6032]

Blah blah blah, 71000 posts saying exactly the same tiresome thing. Back to skipping over them.

Anytime he gets called out he just attacks the other person's "unconscious feelings." It's the ultimate straw man.

 

[HomerJS]

I didn't avoid the subject of mass shootings, I simply noted that Chicago has a mass shooting pretty much every day. The point being that one is a tragedy that congress needs to act on and the other is business as usual.
I don't care what the republican's did or didn't do, I'm addressing the reality we live in right now. So the democrats want to reduce the number of guns sold, what will that do? There is already more than one gun for every man woman and child in the country. I think we're past the point of gun control and well into "what do we do now?". We could ban all firearms and every honest law abiding resident of the nation will turn theirs in. The stupid, criminals, and extremists will keep them. That doesn't seem like a good answer to me. It also doesn't address the issue of firearms smuggled into the country.

I don't know the answers, I probably don't even grasp the entirety of the problem, but the way I see it, the horses, cows, sheep, and pigs have all run off and we're locked into a battle over what size barn door to build. It's great political theater, and allows everyone on either side to think they're fighting the good fight, but it will never reach a conclusion.

If you don’t know the right answer do you know the wrong answer? I think the wrong answer is MORE access to guns?

Can we at least agree on that?

 

[fskimospy]

If you don’t know the right answer do you know the wrong answer? I think the wrong answer is MORE access to guns?

Can we at least agree on that?

This is all pretty simple - what's the saying? The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago, the second best time is today.

If we ban all guns today it will take a very long time to get the sort of reduction we need to meaningfully reduce violence in this country. That's no reason not to do it though, as you have to start somewhere.