Maine Shooting dozens dead or injured.

[eelw]

This is included in the general pile of people who are not mentally mature enough to own guns having them, whether they be mentally ill or domestic terrorists.

Yup warped society to expose guns to kids at an early age perfectly normal for gun nutter families. Wonder how many while still in diapers?

 

[purbeast0]

Apparently they are at dudes house right now and have a ton of FBI people trying to get in.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1717646026369056922

 

[Sunburn74]

It will never happen lol. And how many hundreds of millions of guns are already in wild? We Americans seem to love and worship violence and tremble in fear at a pair of naked breasts. It is so bizarre.

Lol. It's not really all that hard and you don't even need congress. Pack the court, say you need to be in a militia to own a gun, then some states will ban them, others won't and over time it'll just become a normal thing. Kind of like how abortion was normal for a while based on a constitutional right and now it's restricted.

There are also things like oh I don't know, calling the NRA a terrorist organization similar to certain white nationalist groups, running an extensive public ad campaign for years talking about how guns are bad and unamerican, passing laws that make gun ownership so onerous and difficult that it's not worth the hassle, and etc and of course gun buybacks with good payouts or tax credits. Like I said it's not hard. Governments control incentives for everything. It's largely a matter of will.

 

[Brainonska511]

Apparently they are at dudes house right now and have a ton of FBI people trying to get in.

Considering there were fake reports of the suspect being apprehended last night on Twitter, I'll take the veracity of these new Twitter reports with a bucket of salt.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Lol. It's not really all that hard and you don't even need congress. Pack the court, say you need to be in a militia to own a gun, then some states will ban them, others won't and over time it'll just become a normal thing. Kind of like how abortion was normal for a while based on a constitutional right and now it's restricted.

There are also things like oh I don't know, calling the NRA a terrorist organization similar to certain white nationalist groups, running an extensive public ad campaign for years talking about how guns are bad and unamerican, passing laws that make gun ownership so onerous and difficult that it's not worth the hassle, and etc and of course gun buybacks with good payouts or tax credits. Like I said it's not hard. Governments control incentives for everything. It's largely a matter of will.

These aren't cigarettes though. There's so much public sentiment and identity attached to firearms, any of the above is just going to bolster support for Republicans due to 50 years of drumbeats. This situation is so fucked you have to start with kids, aiming at when they become adults. It might happen on it's own given that they're having first hand experience with it, but I worry trauma will lead just as many to greater levels of violence as it will lead to calls for him bans.

You need to do the same things Republicans did, just in reverse.

Edit: something worth considering, anyone younger than 42 today has lived under the specter of school shootings. Columbine happened in 1999, the next fucking week we had a bomb threat at my school.

Every one of these shootings from someone under the age of 42 today is a product of that one event.

 

[fskimospy]

These aren't cigarettes though. There's so much public sentiment and identity attached to firearms, any of the above is just going to bolster support for Republicans due to 50 years of drumbeats. This situation is so fucked you have to start with kids, aiming at when they become adults. It might happen on it's own given that they're having first hand experience with it, but I worry trauma will lead just as many to greater levels of violence as it will lead to calls for him bans.

You need to do the same things Republicans did, just in reverse.

Edit: something worth considering, anyone younger than 42 today has lived under the specter of school shootings. Columbine happened in 1999, the next fucking week we had a bomb threat at my school.

Every one of these shootings from someone under the age of 42 today is a product of that one event.

It’s interesting that Eric Harris largely accomplished his goal, just not in the way he thought.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

It’s interesting that Eric Harris largely accomplished his goal, just not in the way he thought.

Sure fucking did. Racist, scared, idiot children, bullied by other idiot children with no self esteem, leading them to bullying to aquire social currency from other scared, no self esteem idiots, pushing said children to using firearms controlled by old idiot children who have been terrified their entire lives into owning death sticks to make them feel less weak compared to their peers.

And then we have terror and trauma, for generations.

 

[fskimospy]

Sure fucking did. Racist, scared, idiot children, bullied by other idiot children with no self esteem, leading them to bullying to aquire social currency from other scared, no self esteem idiots, pushing said children to using firearms controlled by old idiot children who have been terrified their entire lives into owning death sticks to make them feel less weak compared to their peers.

And then we have terror and trauma, for generations.

Columbine happened the year after I would have graduated high school (I was a troubled kid) and unfortunately it really has left the mark that psycho hoped for.

I guess I get it though, I’ve read multiple books on it, so if the goal was to get attention he did it.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Columbine happened the year after I would have graduated high school (I was a troubled kid) and unfortunately it really has left the mark that psycho hoped for.

I guess I get it though, I’ve read multiple books on it, so if the goal was to get attention he did it.

And unfortunately, from that circumstance has led to decades of trauma, for teachers, for students, for parents. Notice how since the shitshow that was everything in the ME since 9/11 we've started taking PTSD seriously enough that it's not stigmatized now, and therapy for warfighters is actually normalized? I'd be shocked if a trained therapist told me that most children don't come out of high school with sufficiently diagnosable PTSD. Mental health diagnosis and remediation should be mandatory for all children, quarterly, starting in middle school through graduation.

Yeah I know, manpower. The richest govt on the planet can fund it, don't tell me it can't.

 

[fskimospy]

And unfortunately, from that circumstance has led to decades of trauma, for teachers, for students, for parents. Notice how since the shitshow that was everything in the ME since 9/11 we've started taking PTSD seriously enough that it's not stigmatized now, and therapy for warfighters is actually normalized? I'd be shocked if a trained therapist told me that most children don't come out of high school with sufficiently diagnosable PTSD. Mental health diagnosis and remediation should be mandatory for all children, quarterly, starting in middle school through graduation.

Yeah I know, manpower. The richest govt on the planet can fund it, don't tell me it can't.

Mental health treatment is super important.

More important is to remove the means of suicide and mass murder.

 

[Moonbeam]

But the things you know to be true are TRUTHS! And if anyone disagrees with those TRUTHS you feel that they are incorrect and need to be educated.

Theres a difference between opinions and truths. I'm as guilty as anyone over arguing about opinions but I recognise that opinions are diffent to truths.

What I recognize is that truth is a state of conscious awareness that can never be expressed in word. I try to make that clear.

Everyone was taught to feel stupid so everyone is out to prove their opinions superior to another. That's all people can hear when they are told their opinions, because they rely on words, are full of shit. Truth is when thought and time have disappeared. It is the joy of being proper to all sentient things.

 

[Zorba]

The point is that your the one putting yourself forward as a portrayer of truth. Youre the one that's certain in your truth and the one that's proselytizing! (Is that a word?)

And has been spreading that same truth on here for 24 years. I remember thinking he was deep, 23 years ago when I was a depressed 16 year old, then I got a girl friend and realized it's just babbling.

 

[Moonbeam]

Moonbeam is a willfully ignorant, condescending, pseudo-intellectual who thinks his spewing of nonsense is somehow morally and intellectually superior to us lowly sapiens. He is pathetic.

You came to the discussion feeling like a lowly sapiens. I am the only person on this forum that says you are not, that it is how you were made to feel by being forced to believe in lies. Your terror is feeling the pain that was used on you to make you believe those lies. You were forced to be a coward to survive. Your rants against me are par for Stockholm Syndrome sufferers. The hatred you won't feel to the source, I remember. Been down at your level. Know it well.

 

[Zorba]

No, I'm saying there's a fucking sickness in humans that everyone else seems pretty cool with existing, they just have complaints with how many people that they don't know die when a sick person snaps. And for some reason, everyone looks at me like I've got six goddamned heads when I suggest we look at the source which as far as I can tell is no more difficult to deal with than the firearm part. Hell, Republicans are already giving that one an out! They've been talking about mental health issues as a diversion for more guns for decades! Lean into it, something might actually happen!

I'm all for improving mental health in the US and we have made a lot of improvements there, yet mass shootings and suicides by guns keep going up. "Fixing mental illness" is a good aspirational goal, but it isn't a realistic solution for reducing murders significantly.

 

[repoman0]

Been down at your level. Know it well.

LMAO. Just can't help being a condescending prick at all times.

 

[soulcougher73]

Moonbeam is a willfully ignorant, condescending, pseudo-intellectual who thinks his spewing of nonsense is somehow morally and intellectually superior to us lowly sapiens. He is pathetic.

Moonbeam is Jordan Peterson?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Mental health treatment is super important.

More important is to remove the means of suicide and mass murder.

And I'd put a fiver on fixing mental health before gun control in today's America. Maybe after some mental health work, we can take care of guns, but the cart comes before the horse.

 

[Moonbeam]

LMAO. Just can't help being a condescending prick at all times.

People who have unconscious feelings of inferiority can't help but feel condescension all around them. They think people can see what they feel. The ones who really do see don't have a need to make you feel worse than you already do.

I'm all for improving mental health in the US and we have made a lot of improvements there, yet mass shootings and suicides by guns keep going up. "Fixing mental illness" is a good aspirational goal, but it isn't a realistic solution for reducing murders significantly.

 

[woolfe9998]

I'm all for improving mental health in the US and we have made a lot of improvements there, yet mass shootings and suicides by guns keep going up. "Fixing mental illness" is a good aspirational goal, but it isn't a realistic solution for reducing murders significantly.

Yes, and I think the reason for it, at least in the case of mass shootings, is that the people who perpetrate them don't usually have much prior experience with mental health treatment. First, because they aren't psychotic, which would make treatment nearly inevitable. Second, they are probably depressed, but "manly men," which is how most of them think of themselves, are the least likely to see a shrink to talk about their feelings. And finally, because they all have personality disorders like sociopathy and narcissism, which are next to impossible to treat. The most typical profile of the mass shooter is someone with a personality disorder resulting in little or no conscience, plus depression which causes anger and rage. That's what they mostly are, angry sociopaths and narcissists. And that is just not the sort that ends up in mental health treatment unless ordered to do so by a court. So it doesn't matter how much resources we put into the system, because these people are not likely to avail themselves of it and even if they do, they aren't likely to get much out of it.

 

[Moonbeam]

I'm all for improving mental health in the US and we have made a lot of improvements there, yet mass shootings and suicides by guns keep going up. "Fixing mental illness" is a good aspirational goal, but it isn't a realistic solution for reducing murders significantly.

At issue is the unconsciously asserted arrogance of your opinion. You make the assumption that you know what mental health would look like in the population and how it could be achieved, that nothing realistic would change. In fact you know nothing. You have an opinion. I know that I do not know all the answers. What I do know is that truth is a way of seeling and you are not seeing from that point of view. If the truth were easy everybody would know it.

 

[Moonbeam]

Yes, and I think the reason for it, at least in the case of mass shootings, is that the people who perpetrate them don't usually have much prior experience with mental health treatment. First, because they aren't psychotic, which would make treatment nearly inevitable. Second, they are probably depressed, but "manly men," which is how most of them think of themselves, are the least likely to see a shrink to talk about their feelings. And finally, because they all have personality disorders like sociopathy and narcissism, which are next to impossible to treat. The most typical profile of the mass shooter is someone with a personality disorder resulting in little or no conscience, plus depression which causes anger and rage. That's what they mostly are, angry sociopaths and narcissists. And that is just not the sort that ends up in mental health treatment unless ordered to do so by a court. So it doesn't matter how much resources we put into the system, because these people are not likely to avail themselves of it and even if they do, they aren't likely to get much out of it.

They were born that way, or did they acquire those negative traits from a sick society that could maybe become vastly less sick and reduce the number of really bad cases of people who suffer from feeling denial. As I said our culture is sick and needs psychological intervention. It would take years to change radically. But no change and the killing will proceed.

 

[soulcougher73]

And I'd put a fiver on fixing mental health before gun control in today's America. Maybe after some mental health work, we can take care of guns, but the cart comes before the horse.

Id bet a hundy on reasonable gun reform happening before fixing every mental health issue humans can suffer from that make them murder other humans. Both are lofty goals that need addressing though.

 

[soulcougher73]

That's an interesting statement in that it implies that individual shootings don't count.
It was mentioned earlier in the thread that someone would bring up Chicago, so I'll go ahead and do that now. Roughly seven people are shot in Chicago every day, but it's never reported as a mass shooting, it's never reported nationally at all as far as I know. Why is that? Why is it that continuous random shootings are just a part of life but mass shootings capture the attention of the nation? One is a horrific crime that congress needs to address, and the other is business as usual. To me they're all a national disaster, be it seven a day or 20 all at once.

So your “proper nation” consists of not only individual shootings, but also mass shootings. hmmm

 

[Leeea]

Sorry about that. I gave up completely and fell into that hell permanently with the attitude there could never be any escape. There could never again be any hope or meaning. Then, because I had become aware through reading that the Zen folk saw the same thing from a blissful mental state I had a sudden realization. I suffered because I believed truth and the need for meaning is a prison created by thought, that the need for meaning is as meaningless as anything else and I realized this because a blast of wind shifted my awareness from deep deep introspection to simple laying on my bed with the only reality in the world being my presence on the bed. There is no hell. There is only the monkey joy of being here now. Have a banana.

Eastern meditation is well respected and was one of the techniques offered to me.

On its own it requires a great deal of mental discipline and it is useful if a person gets cut off from their meds. But it is not enough, the stress still hits, and the damage to the physical body still occurs. If I was to rely various techniques I could function in a crippled way, but if I did that exclusively it would take years off my life.



You should consider saying hi to a psychiatrist. You can fight the chemical malfunction with willpower and discipline, or you can take a med and use that willpower and discipline for something more productive.

 

[darkswordsman17]

Decided maybe we should try to stay on topic instead and stop letting these surrogate penis worshipping asswipes derail every thread about these topics.

Spoiler: Moonbeam x JP

LMAO. Just can't help being a condescending prick at all times.

By his own constant reminder such behavior is that of someone who hates themselves. At this point we just need the forum to auto-change his posts to "I hate myself" repeated over and over as that's all he has to offer at this point.

Moonbeam is Jordan Peterson?

Pretty much. He's certainly tried to suck his dick enough that it appears his goal was to slowly consume enough of his DNA to turn into him.

Which, I don't know, maybe you can check if Moonie stopped posting during the times when JP "let me show these poor suffering privileged white boys how to be the perfect man" was in a coma in Russia because he couldn't kick his drug and alcohol habits that left him in a perpetual state of self hate, all the while he proselytized literally like Hitler about what the ideal man is, which he of course in no way represents, but somehow he's convinced a bunch of dumbfuck raging pubescent white kids that he's their prophet.

He really easily could've been much more succinct and gone "the ideal man, look at me, its the total fucking opposite." Kinda like how Hitler also was a pale short black haired pansy ass bitch while saying how Germans with their pure white Aryan blood, gold hair, glowing golden sunkissed beefcake bods, are the ideal man.

I really think the similarities to how Hitler preached and JP is often overlooked. But then the latter is so pathetic that people are like "nah, well, maybe if Hitler had stayed in art school" cause JP is such a fucking pathetic loser. But they preach basically the same shit.

Also overlooked is how JP's brand is literally about grooming boys (and grooming girls to fluff the boys).