Maine Shooting dozens dead or injured.

[Stokely]

There is a reason not to do it--"we" want our guns.

Jim Jeffries--a comedian--has a really accurate (IMO) bit on all this, and he compares Australia's reaction to their biggest mass shooting to ours after Sandy Hook (this was years ago). Theirs was to limit guns, ours was "more guns!"

I'm a musician and the gun collectors remind me exactly of some friends that just "have to" own like 30 guitars for each and every occasion. Gotta have this special pickup for some songs etc. It's dumb but harmless other than if the amp is turned up too far...as opposed to fucking military assault rifles owned by Joe citizen, which is right out of Monty Python. Like some fat happy suburban commando wannabe is going to join the Wolverines and fight off the invading Commies, or join the resistance against an actual trained military. Far, far more likely that they'll just off people in some road rage incident, or snap like this latest mentally ill person and just kill everyone at the local Waffle House. But why go with the odds. We want our guns!

For anyone offended by my views, 1) I don't care and 2) take solace in the fact that you won. The guns aren't going anywhere. People like me are the losers. I'd love to be wrong but I don't hold out any hope for it.

 

[Greenman]

If you don’t know the right answer do you know the wrong answer? I think the wrong answer is MORE access to guns?

Can we at least agree on that?

I didn't know anyone was proposing easier access to firearms, I'd absolutely be against that. Though I have to wonder if it matters. You can only shoot one gun at a time, does it really matter if you own three?
What we really need is people control, not gun control. Lets pass a federal law that using a gun in any way in the commission of a crime is a life sentence without parole, even if you didn't pull the trigger. Lets do the same with sales, break the rules when selling a gun is 20 years, no parole. If your weapon is lost or stolen through negligence, 5 years. Unregistered firearm, 5 years. None of this will solve the problem, but it will make a small dent.

 

[fskimospy]

I didn't know anyone was proposing easier access to firearms, I'd absolutely be against that. Though I have to wonder if it matters. You can only shoot one gun at a time, does it really matter if you own three?
What we really need is people control, not gun control. Lets pass a federal law that using a gun in any way in the commission of a crime is a life sentence without parole, even if you didn't pull the trigger. Lets do the same with sales, break the rules when selling a gun is 20 years, no parole. If your weapon is lost or stolen through negligence, 5 years. Unregistered firearm, 5 years. None of this will solve the problem, but it will make a small dent.

The US already has some of the harshest criminal penalties in the world, do we really need to make them even more draconian? The US has about 4% of the world's population but 20% of its prisoners. It's absolutely insane how harsh our penal system is. We don't need to make penalties harsher, if anything we should make them much more lenient and put those resources towards law enforcement so the probability of being caught is higher.

We need gun control or really, gun abolition. I'll settle for much stricter gun control though.

 

[Muse]

Wouldn’t have expected the Subaru but it is Maine. They are all over the North East.

Wonder what the motive is.

Edit: surprise surprise. was using what looks like an AR.

40 YO, spent literally 1/2 of his life in the National Guard, training on how to kill people. Co-worker (i.e. National Guard dude) said he was a trainer IIRC and that he obviously knew his stuff, was good at killing people with an assault weapon. Goes bananas a few months ago, threatens to shoot up the base, so they knew this guy was bonkers. Legally buys assault weapon in 2023. WTF. Next thing you know, goes on killing spree. People want to know the "motive." That's just plain B.S. He wanted to kill people en masse, no goddamn "reason." He likely had a plan to avoid capture. I figure that plan will fail. Always seems to.

Nobody is safe in the U.S.A. Nobody, anywhere in the country. You are not safe. Your kids are not safe. Your SO is not safe.

Ban assault weapon ownership, period, just for openers.

 

[Greenman]

This is all pretty simple - what's the saying? The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago, the second best time is today.

If we ban all guns today it will take a very long time to get the sort of reduction we need to meaningfully reduce violence in this country. That's no reason not to do it though, as you have to start somewhere.

My issue with that is that it places your personal safety and trust in government, and guarantees that only government and criminals will be armed. I don't have that kind of faith. That said, I'd consider that as a solution if the borders were sealed. Every single box coming into the country inspected, every single person identified. Machine shops would have to be monitored as well.
Most solutions disarm people who wouldn't dream of shooting another human, and ignore the people that need to be stopped. Then there are the thousands of people like me, I own 2 rifles, a shotgun, and an automatic pistol. I haven't fired any of them in 35 years. I don't even know if the little bit of amo I have is any good.

 

[fskimospy]

My issue with that is that it places your personal safety and trust in government, and guarantees that only government and criminals will be armed. I don't have that kind of faith. That said, I'd consider that as a solution if the borders were sealed. Every single box coming into the country inspected, every single person identified. Machine shops would have to be monitored as well.
Most solutions disarm people who wouldn't dream of shooting another human, and ignore the people that need to be stopped. Then there are the thousands of people like me, I own 2 rifles, a shotgun, and an automatic pistol. I haven't fired any of them in 35 years. I don't even know if the little bit of amo I have is any good.

Can you explain why essentially every other developed country is able to make it work then?

 

[Muse]

Most solutions disarm people who wouldn't dream of shooting another human, and ignore the people that need to be stopped. Then there are the thousands of people like me, I own 2 rifles, a shotgun, and an automatic pistol. I haven't fired any of them in 35 years. I don't even know if the little bit of amo I have is any good.

My solution disarms all these people and folks can relax and feel safe.

 

[fskimospy]

My solution disarms all these people and folks can relax and feel safe.

What's always so weird to me about the anti gun control people is they have this parade of horribles that they say will come from the removal of guns but all ignore the fact that this is literally the current situation in the large majority of the developed world and none of those bad things happen there.

 

[Muse]

Can you explain why essentially every other developed country is able to make it work then?

Cognitive dissonance is a religion in the U.S.A. nowadays. Arguably THE religion.

 

[Brainonska511]

If you don’t know the right answer do you know the wrong answer? I think the wrong answer is MORE access to guns?

Can we at least agree on that?

What's interesting to see is articles talking about how so many people in Maine are armed, but none shot back (I believe they were speaking generally and not of anyone specifically in these venues). But, it probably amounts to people not actually wanting or willing to be in a shootout. They just *think* that they could one day be a Rambo hero, so they carry a gun.

 

[Muse]

What's interesting to see is articles talking about how so many people in Maine are armed, but none shot back (I believe they were speaking generally and not of anyone specifically in these venues). But, it probably amounts to people not actually wanting or willing to be in a shootout. They just *think* that they could one day be a Rambo hero, so they carry a gun.

He was attacked by a worker at the bar with a butcher knife. The Mainers were prepared, oh yeah.

 

[Brainonska511]

He was attacked by a worker at the bar with a butcher knife. The Mainers were prepared, oh yeah.

I can't speak for who else might have been armed, but in general, fighting is often the last thing that is advised in a mass shooting. I won't fault anyone for not fighting back or "being prepared" - the perpetrator was carrying a weapon of war intent on killing people.

I only speak to the mindset that induces people to want liberal access to firearms and carrying of said firearms in public spaces.

 

[brycejones]

My issue with that is that it places your personal safety and trust in government, and guarantees that only government and criminals will be armed. I don't have that kind of faith. That said, I'd consider that as a solution if the borders were sealed. Every single box coming into the country inspected, every single person identified. Machine shops would have to be monitored as well.
Most solutions disarm people who wouldn't dream of shooting another human, and ignore the people that need to be stopped. Then there are the thousands of people like me, I own 2 rifles, a shotgun, and an automatic pistol. I haven't fired any of them in 35 years. I don't even know if the little bit of amo I have is any good.

Every mass murdering shit head is a "responsible gun owner" until they aren't. Every person who kills themselves with a gun is a "responsible gun owner" until they are not. Every gun owner who has their gun stolen and used by someone else in a crime was a "responsible gun owner" until they were not. Every gun owner whose gun is used in an "accidental" shooting was a "responsible gun owner" until they were not.

Get the theme here? The "responsible gun owner" is a fucking myth.

 

[Greenman]

My solution disarms all these people and folks can relax and feel safe.

You don't think weapons will be smuggled into the country? We haven't done well with drugs or people, why would guns not pour through the border as well?
I'd like to see a solution, no one should have to go through their life worried about being shot, but every answer so far disarms the people who aren't shooting others.

 

[fskimospy]

You don't think weapons will be smuggled into the country? We haven't done well with drugs or people, why would guns not pour through the border as well?
I'd like to see a solution, no one should have to go through their life worried about being shot, but every answer so far disarms the people who aren't shooting others.

So I assume this means you believe we should legalize all drugs because they come into the country anyway and prohibition is just taking them away from those who use them responsibly?

Not to mention the well established fact that average American is safer without a gun than with one so if safety is your issue a gun ban is an excellent idea.

 

[brycejones]

You don't think weapons will be smuggled into the country? We haven't done well with drugs or people, why would guns not pour through the border as well?
I'd like to see a solution, no one should have to go through their life worried about being shot, but every answer so far disarms the people who aren't shooting others.

The flow of guns is the opposite direction. it goes from the US to Mexico and Canada. We're the problem for those 2 countries.

 

[Fenixgoon]

The flow of guns is the opposite direction. it goes from the US to Mexico and Canada. We're the problem for those 2 countries.

Hell we're the biggest arms dealer in the world, IIRC (and if we're not #1 we're almost certainly #2)

 

[ivwshane]

The guy that votes for the party that has been making it easier for people to get and keep their guns says he would be against making it easier for people to get access to guns.


I can’t do a bigger eye roll.

 

[akugami]

The flow of guns is the opposite direction. it goes from the US to Mexico and Canada. We're the problem for those 2 countries.

I was just about to post the very same thing.

There is a huge illegal gun trade, because there is zero, absolutely zero, regulations on it. So much straw purchases, with zero accountability.

Greenman is talking out of his ass. He wants to seem like the voice of reason, and accountability. The problem is when it comes time for supporting those who will make a change that will actually help gun violence, like many conservatives, he throws his hands up in the air and say we can't do shit about it.

No democrat, liberal, or whatever, is trying to take away access to guns. What we want is to have a vetting process. Background checks, gun safety classes, periodical reevaluations should be required for gun licenses. Waiting another week or two for a background check, making sure you have gun safety classes, and a mental evaluation is nothing if you really claim you are a law abiding citizen and want to be a responsible gun owner. It's the same reason we have a driver's license permit test, then an actual driving test, before you can get a driver's license. It's for the safety of everyone.

Instead we have straw gun purchases where a single individual purchases and sells dozens of guns in the black market. This is where a majority of the guns used in crime come from. The straw gun purchases is where drug dealers and the Mexican cartels get a lot of their guns. The majority of guns that the Mexican cartel obtains is from America. That's right, we supply the Mexican cartels with their guns. The Mexican government has begged the US to do something about gun trafficking, but thanks to the NRA and conservatives, shit hasn't been done about it.

 

[fskimospy]

I was just about to post the very same thing.

There is a huge illegal gun trade, because there is zero, absolutely zero, regulations on it. So much straw purchases, with zero accountability.

Greenman is talking out of his ass. He wants to seem like the voice of reason, and accountability. The problem is when it comes time for supporting those who will make a change that will actually help gun violence, like many conservatives, he throws his hands up in the air and say we can't do shit about it.

No democrat, liberal, or whatever, is trying to take away access to guns. What we want is to have a vetting process. Background checks, gun safety classes, periodical reevaluations should be required for gun licenses. Waiting another week or two for a background check, making sure you have gun safety classes, and a mental evaluation is nothing if you really claim you are a law abiding citizen and want to be a responsible gun owner. It's the same reason we have a driver's license permit test, then an actual driving test, before you can get a driver's license. It's for the safety of everyone.

Instead we have straw gun purchases where a single individual purchases and sells dozens of guns in the black market. This is where a majority of the guns used in crime come from. The straw gun purchases is where drug dealers and the Mexican cartels get a lot of their guns. The majority of guns that the Mexican cartel obtains is from America. That's right, we supply the Mexican cartels with their guns. The Mexican government has begged the US to do something about gun trafficking, but thanks to the NRA and conservatives, shit hasn't been done about it.

Well to be clear I am trying to take away access to guns, haha. I admit I am an outlier though.

 

[brycejones]

I was just about to post the very same thing.

There is a huge illegal gun trade, because there is zero, absolutely zero, regulations on it. So much straw purchases, with zero accountability.

Greenman is talking out of his ass. He wants to seem like the voice of reason, and accountability. The problem is when it comes time for supporting those who will make a change that will actually help gun violence, like many conservatives, he throws his hands up in the air and say we can't do shit about it.

No democrat, liberal, or whatever, is trying to take away access to guns. What we want is to have a vetting process. Background checks, gun safety classes, periodical reevaluations should be required for gun licenses. Waiting another week or two for a background check, making sure you have gun safety classes, and a mental evaluation is nothing if you really claim you are a law abiding citizen and want to be a responsible gun owner. It's the same reason we have a driver's license permit test, then an actual driving test, before you can get a driver's license. It's for the safety of everyone.

Instead we have straw gun purchases where a single individual purchases and sells dozens of guns in the black market. This is where a majority of the guns used in crime come from. The straw gun purchases is where drug dealers and the Mexican cartels get a lot of their guns. The majority of guns that the Mexican cartel obtains is from America. That's right, we supply the Mexican cartels with their guns. The Mexican government has begged the US to do something about gun trafficking, but thanks to the NRA and conservatives, shit hasn't been done about it.

Access to guns very much needs to be taken away. Our experiment in unlimited murder toy access is clearly a failure.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I didn't know anyone was proposing easier access to firearms, I'd absolutely be against that. Though I have to wonder if it matters. You can only shoot one gun at a time, does it really matter if you own three?

You are such a goddamned imbecile. How many guns were in the suite of the Las Vegas shooter? How many people were shot? How many of the weapons did he fire?

"HURR DURR you can only fire one at a time." What's your paypal? I'll send you a couple of bucks towards crowd sourcing helping you buy a clue.

 

[hal2kilo]

40 YO, spent literally 1/2 of his life in the National Guard, training on how to kill people. Co-worker (i.e. National Guard dude) said he was a trainer IIRC and that he obviously knew his stuff, was good at killing people with an assault weapon. Goes bananas a few months ago, threatens to shoot up the base, so they knew this guy was bonkers. Legally buys assault weapon in 2023. WTF. Next thing you know, goes on killing spree. People want to know the "motive." That's just plain B.S. He wanted to kill people en masse, no goddamn "reason." He likely had a plan to avoid capture. I figure that plan will fail. Always seems to.

Nobody is safe in the U.S.A. Nobody, anywhere in the country. You are not safe. Your kids are not safe. Your SO is not safe.

Ban assault weapon ownership, period, just for openers.

Last guy I knew like that we called Sargent Rock. Taught the TOW to weekend warriors. Guy was a useless civil servant tech.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Even if you stopped selling guns, you'd never be able to pull back the ones out there. What we could do is stop selling ammunition and reloading supplies and prohibit shipping of it by any means. Close all gun stores and ranges and eliminate all firearms hunting seasons.

Turn the boombooms into sticks and decorations.

 

[ivwshane]

I see no reason why we couldn’t gradually phase out firearms. In 100 years you’d have only collectors with them. Everyone else would have either sold it to the government through buy back programs or had them confiscated when they committed crimes. On a side note I hope they are destroyed and a good record is kept on its journey from user to destruction (basically my concern would be corruption and people/authorities taking confiscated guns and selling them on the black market).